My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
You're opening a nasty can of worms with your question....you're going to get a lot of differing opinions; each brand has their loyal following and think the other brands inferior....
I use the NCE Powerhouse Pro system and love it. I like the simplicity of the user interface and the ease of programming.
My suggestion to you: find users of as many different types of sytems as possible and get the throttles in your hand for a test drive and see which one you like the best. You're the one that will have to use the product you decide on.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I agree with Jeffrey. I started with an MRC Command 2000 set (No longer available) and got my feet wet. I recently upgraded to a Digitrax Zephyr and I love it. However, my experience would not have been so good had I not familiarized myself with simple DCC previously.
Joe
I strongly recommend using several DCC systems before you make a choice. All of the systems will essentially do the same things, but they don't all FEEL the same. Some are handheld, some are fixed systems, some have lots of easy to decipher buttons, some have a few cryptic buttons that do lots of things.
Personally, I like NCE. It's full-featured, expandable, reliable, and best of all, VERY intuitive. Most of my DCC experience has been with Digitrax, which really isn't all that easy to understand. I recently used a NCE system for the first time, and it was a lot easier for me to figure everything out just by staring at the handheld. I've now scrapped my plans for an Empire Builder and am saving up for an expanded Power Cab.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
I'll disagree with Jeff. Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command. Save your money and buy a more functional system such as NCE PowerCab, Prodigy Advance, or Digitrax Zephyr. This what you will use to control alomst everything on your layout - don't cheap out on it! Look at as an investment; something you will use (and have to use to run your trains) for years. The idea of buy the ultra cheap, ultra limited Bachmann system just so you can see how DCC works doesn't make sense. What happens when you decide you need more? Now you've spent $65 - $80 on the Bachmann and need to spend an additional $150 for a real system. Now your total outlay is over $215. Use the extra $65 to buy an additional throttle or other components.
My personal preference is towards NCE. As others have stated, the user interface is easy to understand and use.
jktrains
2.5 to 5 amps is plenty, more than enough actually.
Beware of cheap systems that dont give you the capabilities you want.
These forums are creaking under the weight of many DCC posts and threads, search them and you will find several camps, several negative things and several positive things. Alot of reading to do.
jktrains wrote:I'll disagree with Jeff. Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command...The idea of buy the ultra cheap, ultra limited Bachmann system just so you can see how DCC works doesn't make sense.
Sorry, jktrains, I gotta side with Jeffrey on this one. My first DCC system was the E-Z Command, which I bought for $53 back at the beginning of 2005. I wanted to try out DCC but didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get me "feet wet".
Even though it does have it's limitations, I found the E-Z Command quite adequate at running 2-3 locomoitves simultaneously and operating 8 sound functions. I used the E-Z Command for a year before purchasing the NCE Power Cab. During that year I was able to research and determine what DCC system I wanted to upgrade to.
Was that $53 wasted? Not to me. I actually ended up selling the E-Z Command to a fourm member here and, thereby, recouped some of that cost.
The key is to know what you are buying and what your needs are and will be. My needs were to find an inexpensive DCC system to determine if indeed I wanted to pursue that technology. I didn't have anyone around that I knew that had a DCC system to check out/ask questions about, so this was the cheapest (i.e. least expensive) alternative for me. For Jeffrey, his funds are limited so this was his opportunity to try out DCC at a price he could afford.
What happens when you decide you need more? Now you've spent $65 - $80 on the Bachmann and need to spend an additional $150 for a real system. Now your total outlay is over $215. Use the extra $65 to buy an additional throttle or other components. My personal preference is towards NCE. As others have stated, the user interface is easy to understand and use.jktrains
Let me put the shoe on a different foot. What would happen if I were interested in DCC, bought a more expensive system and then discovered that I didn't either care for the technology or that it didn't really buy me any advantage? Okay, now I'm out $150 when I could have spent only $60 to determine that. If you think I'm giving an absurd example, just talk to Larry (BRAKIE) here on the forum.
And, to the contrary, the Bachmann E-Z Command is a real DCC system. It's just limited. The Toyota Echo is a real car. It just doesn't have all the nicities that the Camry or Lexus has. It is, however, STILL a car though. Be careful not to bash another system just because it might not fit your needs. It might fit someone else's just fine.
jktrains, I will agree with you on the NCE systems. One of the selling points for me was that the Power Cab/ProCab throttle was very intuitive.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
jktrains wrote: Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command. Save your money and buy a more functional system such as NCE PowerCab, Prodigy Advance, or Digitrax Zephyr.
Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command. Save your money and buy a more functional system such as NCE PowerCab, Prodigy Advance, or Digitrax Zephyr.
look them over for the features that are important to you, grab on to the throttle for each to see how it feels in your hand, the contol layout....
what system size is right for your needs, power, throttle count, memory, radio........
no need to buy a radio super. for a 4x8, but a zephyr while expandable may not be enough for your needs.....
check to see what the local clubs are using, there's a wealth of info there, plus if you become interested in the club, your a step ahead, having the same system.
bottom line get the one that, to you, best fits your needs
WCFan,
The Digitrax Zephyr is a very good DCC system and you would most likely end up being very happy with it. Like others, I enjoy NCE. However, both systems have their pros and cons; their pluses and minuses. You really can't go wrong with either company.
And, everyone has there preferences, biases and things that they particularly like about one system over another. As Ray stated, if possible, try out as many systems as you are able to BEFORE purchasing so that you can make the best informed choice that will be right for YOU and YOUR needs.
WCFan, if you are interested, here's my web page link to a review of the NCE Power Cab that I wrote here on the forum a couple of years ago. It includes my initial thoughts and impressions of the Power Cab, pictures, questions and inquiries by others, discussions, issues, and some resolutions to those issues. I think it's a pretty fair assessment. I also have a review of the CAB-04p throttle and the NCE Smart Booster on the same web page and how they interact with one another.
Hope that's a help in some way...
ARTHILL wrote:Above advice is all good. I now have the Digitrax Super Chief radio, and wish I had started there and saved a few bucks. The radio is the best toy in MY train room.
Ditto. I have no regrets buying the Radio Super Chief. It has everything I need and more.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
In defense of the Zephyr on a 4x8 comment, I personally know of at least three railroads in my area that uses them, one with a radio panel running a medium sized pike of good quality.
I personally have the Super Chief, being the sort that is hard-headed I have way too much power (Digitrax 2012 power supply) and bought the system at a good discount. For me, to upgrade to radio is a small expense easily covered any time in the future.
Yes I spent too much money, but rather I went all the way full bore watching the pyro to the summit instead of getting caught with a wimpy el-cheap peice of crap and not enough capability to do anything.
Keep in mind, DCC is a way of communicating to various devices on a network. You can always start small and sell it to seed upgrades and better systems in the future once you have a good idea of where you are.
By the way I still have the Analog Tech 4 220 power pack in the corner, I will probably die with analog in one hand and a dcc manual in the other but that is me.
I urge you to start small like the NCE or the Zephyr. Dont go all out like I did, you might not like the results.
I also strongly urge you to get ahold of a throttle in your hands. You are the one who is going to run trains for an hour or two or three. If you are happy with the twiddling then you know your hands will be fine.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote:WCFan: Check your PM's.
Yea Jeff I did. Thanks. Give me some time to think about. I'll tell you in a little while what I'm going to do.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote:OK, I'm getting off right now. There's a thunderstorm coming through here and it's rockin' an' rollin'.
tstage wrote: jktrains wrote:I'll disagree with Jeff. Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command...The idea of buy the ultra cheap, ultra limited Bachmann system just so you can see how DCC works doesn't make sense. Sorry, jktrains, I gotta side with Jeffrey on this one. My first DCC system was the E-Z Command, which I bought for $53 back at the beginning of 2005. I wanted to try out DCC but didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get me "feet wet".Even though it does have it's limitations, I found the E-Z Command quite adequate at running 2-3 locomoitves simultaneously and operating 8 sound functions. I used the E-Z Command for a year before purchasing the NCE Power Cab. During that year I was able to research and determine what DCC system I wanted to upgrade to.Was that $53 wasted? Not to me. I actually ended up selling the E-Z Command to a fourm member here and, thereby, recouped some of that cost.The key is to know what you are buying and what your needs are and will be. My needs were to find an inexpensive DCC system to determine if indeed I wanted to pursue that technology. I didn't have anyone around that I knew that had a DCC system to check out/ask questions about, so this was the cheapest (i.e. least expensive) alternative for me. For Jeffrey, his funds are limited so this was his opportunity to try out DCC at a price he could afford. What happens when you decide you need more? Now you've spent $65 - $80 on the Bachmann and need to spend an additional $150 for a real system. Now your total outlay is over $215. Use the extra $65 to buy an additional throttle or other components. My personal preference is towards NCE. As others have stated, the user interface is easy to understand and use.jktrainsLet me put the shoe on a different foot. What would happen if I were interested in DCC, bought a more expensive system and then discovered that I didn't either care for the technology or that it didn't really buy me any advantage? Okay, now I'm out $150 when I could have spent only $60 to determine that. If you think I'm giving an absurd example, just talk to Larry (BRAKIE) here on the forum. And, to the contrary, the Bachmann E-Z Command is a real DCC system. It's just limited. The Toyota Echo is a real car. It just doesn't have all the nicities that the Camry or Lexus has. It is, however, STILL a car though. Be careful not to bash another system just because it might not fit your needs. It might fit someone else's just fine. jktrains, I will agree with you on the NCE systems. One of the selling points for me was that the Power Cab/ProCab throttle was very intuitive.Tom
BLASHPEHMY! Wow! Never thought I disagree with you tstage, but I think dumping money into a Bachmann EZ system is a waste of time. Like me I spent only 139 dollars on an NCE Powercab system and used the extra cash I would have WASTED on a bachmann EZ command to buy another throttle.
BUT, if Jefferey is willing to send him a Bachmann EZ command for FREE hey go right ahead and play with it. Just make sure to buy quality decoders and stay away from the MRC junk.
Frank,
You're are more than welcome to disagree with me and my logic all you want - even if you are wrong. (I'm just kidding. )
Frank, I don't expect you or everyone else to totally agree with my reasons for doing what I did. I had the Bachmann E-Z Command for a little over a year and I was happy with the product for what it did. To me, buying the E-Z Command was an experient to see if I wanted to pursue DCC or not.
Now, if had I paid full MSRP for the Bachmann (i.e. $100) - compared to only needing another $40 more for a more functional and powerful NCE Power Cab, or $50 for a Digitrax Zephyr - that would be an entirely different matter. However, I only spent $53 for my E-Z Command. That's nearly $90 less that I had to fork out for my "experiment".
Was/is the E-Z Command a limited system? Yes, it is. Did I know that before I purchased it? Absolutely. Even if I couldn't adjust CVs, I could still operate two or more trains on the SAME track...at the SAME time...going in DIFFERENT directions. Pretty cool! And, with the "ultra-cheap, ultra-limted" E-Z Command, I still could access 8 sound functions with it. Those are the SAME 8 basic sound functions that the majority of us use the most often anyhow.
Frank, your point about buying quality decoders - no matter what DCC system you use - is a good one. Even if you can't utilize the full capability of a decoder now, you might be able to at a later date or on someone else's DCC system.
I also have LENZ with both the 90 and 100 throttles. I prefer the 100 but use the 90 for some switching.
I added the XPA for use with a cordless phone. I got a brand new 2.4 mhz phone at Staples for $25.00 and then got a $25.00 rebate. So the phone was free. The phone has an LCD screen so you can see at a glance which loco number you are operating as well as verify the numbers you type in when changing loco's of stationary decoder addresses.
I fine for almost all my operating, except for programming, the cordless phone works perfectly.
Range is no problem. The base station can be located anywhere even out of sight. I have no idea about the maximum range except to say it works flawlessly from anywhere in my house or outside the house!
This is a very inexpensive way to go 'RADIO'. Total cost for the LENZ XPA and phone was under $50.00. And you may have multiple XPA's connected to the system.
The phone keys are very easy to use as they are quite large.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I am still chugging along with a Sys1 by Wangrow, ugraded with NCE radios. If I were to build a layout of the size you mention I would try the NCE PowerCab, based on price and versatility.
Roger Aultman
Driline wrote: tstage wrote: jktrains wrote:I'll disagree with Jeff. Don't buy the Bachamnn EZ Command...The idea of buy the ultra cheap, ultra limited Bachmann system just so you can see how DCC works doesn't make sense. Sorry, jktrains, I gotta side with Jeffrey on this one. My first DCC system was the E-Z Command, which I bought for $53 back at the beginning of 2005. I wanted to try out DCC but didn't want to spend a lot of money just to get me "feet wet".Even though it does have it's limitations, I found the E-Z Command quite adequate at running 2-3 locomoitves simultaneously and operating 8 sound functions. I used the E-Z Command for a year before purchasing the NCE Power Cab. During that year I was able to research and determine what DCC system I wanted to upgrade to.Was that $53 wasted? Not to me. I actually ended up selling the E-Z Command to a fourm member here and, thereby, recouped some of that cost.The key is to know what you are buying and what your needs are and will be. My needs were to find an inexpensive DCC system to determine if indeed I wanted to pursue that technology. I didn't have anyone around that I knew that had a DCC system to check out/ask questions about, so this was the cheapest (i.e. least expensive) alternative for me. For Jeffrey, his funds are limited so this was his opportunity to try out DCC at a price he could afford. What happens when you decide you need more? Now you've spent $65 - $80 on the Bachmann and need to spend an additional $150 for a real system. Now your total outlay is over $215. Use the extra $65 to buy an additional throttle or other components. My personal preference is towards NCE. As others have stated, the user interface is easy to understand and use.jktrainsLet me put the shoe on a different foot. What would happen if I were interested in DCC, bought a more expensive system and then discovered that I didn't either care for the technology or that it didn't really buy me any advantage? Okay, now I'm out $150 when I could have spent only $60 to determine that. If you think I'm giving an absurd example, just talk to Larry (BRAKIE) here on the forum. And, to the contrary, the Bachmann E-Z Command is a real DCC system. It's just limited. The Toyota Echo is a real car. It just doesn't have all the nicities that the Camry or Lexus has. It is, however, STILL a car though. Be careful not to bash another system just because it might not fit your needs. It might fit someone else's just fine. jktrains, I will agree with you on the NCE systems. One of the selling points for me was that the Power Cab/ProCab throttle was very intuitive.TomBLASHPEHMY! Wow! Never thought I disagree with you tstage, but I think dumping money into a Bachmann EZ system is a waste of time. Like me I spent only 139 dollars on an NCE Powercab system and used the extra cash I would have WASTED on a bachmann EZ command to buy another throttle.BUT, if Jefferey is willing to send him a Bachmann EZ command for FREE hey go right ahead and play with it. Just make sure to buy quality decoders and stay away from the MRC junk.
Tstage, consider the other side of the coin. A person buys an EZ system, tries it out and decides that this DCC thing is over-hyped because he can't do this or that with EZ that he could do with a PowerCab or Zephyr. He gets disappointed by it and gives up on DCC.
Instead he could purchase a POwerCab or Zephyr, a more full featured system so they he gets a more accurate taste of what DCC can do. Say he tries it and still doesn't like it. He decides to sell what he bought. There is a much broader demand and bigger market to sell either a used PowerCab or Zephyer than a used EZ system.
Jeff- yours is a nice offer, but I left wondering why you would have so many extra systems that you loan them out? One DCC system should be all that's needed on a layout, maybe some boosters, but more than one EZ command station? What's up with that?
While the EZ system may give a person a taste of DCC, why give them a Yugo test drive? It sounds like to OP haas already decided to go foward with DCC, so the question is more aloong the lines of which system, not DC or DCC.
I agree with those who caution about the use of the EZ-Command system. To my knowledge, apart from the recent availability of a booster, an improvement by most standards, and certainly by its own, the device is so limited as to not afford the user much of what makes DCC most attractive. In fact, now that Broadway Limited is marketing sound-equipped DC locomotives, it really does reduce the DC/DCC debate to one of out-and-out utility.
I acknowledge Tom's fondness and loyalty to a system that was instrumental in his own introduction to DCC, but even he gave his away (to an MRC user, no less..) when it had served its usefulness to him. I believe that was at least a full year, after which Tom got the Prodi...er, the Pro-Cab (is it hot in here?)
To make the argument circuitous, though, Tom used the system as designed and to good effect...it was a stepping stone to an evolutionary process for him, and I think that is the use to which he commends it to the OP. Money is going to be tight for some of us, but we all have to priorize our discretionary spending. Getting an EZ-Command for anything from the cost of shipping to US$60 is hardly going to be a burden for the vast majority of us who can afford to engage the hobby at all.
So, I have come full circle...and this discussion is essentially reduced to whether the money should be spent on an additional throttle after a more substantial investment that may go bad because the OP may become one of about 2% of DCC dabblers who revert to DC. Personally, FWIW, I had the EZ-Command for about two weeks, 12 days of which it was in a box, either unpacked or repacked. It simply would not program my growing stable of locomotives, but I had made the commitment to go DCC after some reading and thinking. To me, it was like putting a Focus engine in a Ferrari. Sure, it'll move, but....really...