Circuit board turnout point throw bar.

[cwclark]

Hi guys,

     So I have a code 100 Shinohara select control turnout that just won't work. There is a short between the metal point bar and the diverging route track. I've tried every wiring schematic I know to try and wire around the frog with tortoise machine contacts and still get the short on the diverging route. (even tried the pig tail from the points to the closure rails that Linn Wescott demonstrated in his old electrical MRR book and it was still a no-go.) My last hope for the turnout is to remove the metal point throw bar, the copper clips, and install an insulated circuit board throw bar. Does anyone know where there is a website demo of how this is done or what issue of MRR this was demonstrated in? I have the circuit board material but need to know the preferred way of mounting the points to it......thanks, chuck

 

[Texas Zepher]

install an insulated circuit board throw bar. .... need to know the preferred way of mounting the points to it...

We (my club) drill and tap for 00-90 screws.  We tried just using a screw in the center, but that makes them really stiff.  So we prefer to cut the bar between the points apart, redrill new holes, and use 1 screw for each point. 

[jalajoie]

You may find your answer at "Wiring for DCC" web site. I did not book marked the URL as in my opinion this site is doing more wrong than good.

An easy way to get rid of the copper bar underneath the throw bar is to cut it with an Xacto blade #11. I don't think it is necessary to replace the throw bar.

In addition I always cut a gap into both diverging branch of the frog, regarless if it is necessary or not.

Been using these Shinohara since 52 years without any problem so far even with DCC.

Jack W. 

[rrinker]

 There are some examples on the handlaid track web site (the Fast Tracks people - they have forums there as well). There is an example of making a pivoted throwbar using spikes and a PC board tie (vs soldering the points to the PC board tie).

 

                                    --Randy

[cmrproducts]

To correct the shorting at the frog I cut through both rails about 3/4 inch from the point of the frog.

This makes the frog insulated from the rest of the switch.

I use the thick super glue to fill the cut and make sure the frog rails do not come loose.

I have 10 double curved Shinohara turnouts on my layout now and have done this with all of them and have never needed to do anything with the throw bar.

I also do not power the frog once it is cut.  So far I have been able to run the short 44 ton and 70 ton Bachmann factory decoder equiped engines through them without them stalling.

The Bachmann engines are about the shortest wheelbase engines there are, although I don't run steam!

BOB H - Clarion, PA 

 

[cwclark]

To correct the shorting at the frog I cut through both rails about 3/4 inch from the point of the frog.

This makes the frog insulated from the rest of the switch.

I use the thick super glue to fill the cut and make sure the frog rails do not come loose.

I have 10 double curved Shinohara turnouts on my layout now and have done this with all of them and have never needed to do anything with the throw bar.

I also do not power the frog once it is cut.  So far I have been able to run the short 44 ton and 70 ton Bachmann factory decoder equiped engines through them without them stalling.

The Bachmann engines are about the shortest wheelbase engines there are, although I don't run steam!

BOB H - Clarion, PA 

 

That isn't the problem, I did cut thru the closure rails before the frog and insulated them with sheet styrene then wired around the frog using the tortoise machine contacts to power the frog and the rails past the frog. The problem is that the points never loose contact with the copper strips on either side of the rails. I'm going to have to remove the entire point throw bar and totally rebuild it so that it is insulated. I got a bum turnout and will try anything first before giving up and putting in a new one. Since soldering the turnout in various places, it's gonna be real hard to take it back for a refund.

 

[DigitalGriffin]

Hi guys,

     So I have a code 100 Shinohara select control turnout that just won't work. There is a short between the metal point bar and the diverging route track. I've tried every wiring schematic I know to try and wire around the frog with tortoise machine contacts and still get the short on the diverging route. (even tried the pig tail from the points to the closure rails that Linn Wescott demonstrated in his old electrical MRR book and it was still a no-go.) My last hope for the turnout is to remove the metal point throw bar, the copper clips, and install an insulated circuit board throw bar. Does anyone know where there is a website demo of how this is done or what issue of MRR this was demonstrated in? I have the circuit board material but need to know the preferred way of mounting the points to it......thanks, chuck

 

I presume you are DCC.  DC usually doesn't have these problems.

As other's have suggested, have you tried cutting the frog to isolate it from the rest of the circuit?

 

[jalajoie]

The problem is that the points never loose contact with the copper strips on either side of the rails. I'm going to have to remove the entire point throw bar and totally rebuild it so that it is insulated.

Please refer to my first post, the copper strips on either side of the rails can be cut very easily with an Exacto #11 blade. There is no need to remove or modify the throw bar.

Jack W.

[cmrproducts]

cwclark

Where I cut the frog and effectively insulating it I found that the flanges were still touching next to the ties further out.

I had to use a very thin Dremel abrasive cutting disk and cut away the rail flange way down inside the point rails. 

I could not figure out why I still had a short until I cut a gap in the rail flanges further from the frog.  I know that this might not make much sense but it took me a while to figure out a way to gap the rails past the frog. 

So far I have never had any other problems with those turnouts

BOB H - Clarion, PA 

 

cwclark stated

That isn't the problem, I did cut thru the closure rails before the frog and insulated them with sheet styrene then wired around the frog using the tortoise machine contacts to power the frog and the rails past the frog. The problem is that the points never loose contact with the copper strips on either side of the rails. I'm going to have to remove the entire point throw bar and totally rebuild it so that it is insulated. I got a bum turnout and will try anything first before giving up and putting in a new one. Since soldering the turnout in various places, it's gonna be real hard to take it back for a refund.

 

 

[Texas Zepher]

I'm going to have to remove the entire point throw bar and totally rebuild it so that it is insulated.

Oh yeah, don't forget to file or sand the conductive surface of the circuit board, or a least cut the surface where you want it to conduct.

got a bum turnout and will try anything first before giving up and putting in a new one. Since soldering the turnout in various places

Another reason I never seldom solder track.