I have narrrowed down my choices to three systems
I am looking for the pro's and con's of each system.
Also upgradibility, personal experience, limitaions of the system, what it can do, and accesories by the manufacture.
Please try not to turn this in a 3+ page argument. And I am not looking for comparison's.....I can make my own, but reviews are always welcome.
cheese4432 wrote:I have narrrowed down my choices to three systems mrc prodigy express system...I found it for $115digitrax zyphyr system...I found it for $160bachmann e-z dcc system...I found it for $70.65I am looking for the pro's and con's of each system.Also upgradibility, personal experience, limitaions of the system, what it can do, and accesories by the manufacture.Please try not to turn this in a 3+ page argument. And I am not looking for comparison's.....I can make my own, but reviews are always welcome.
In a nutshell:
Digitrax Zephyr - of the three, this is the most versitile and expandible. Has 2 jump ports for using DC powers as extra throttles. Computer port is extra but will allow you to hook up a computer to the Zephyr for easier configuration and storing of CVs (configuration variables) and signal systems, using JMRI's Decoder Pro software (FREE)
MRC Prodigy Advance - handheld throttle, NO DC option to run trains. Nice LCD display.
Bachmann E-Z Command - Most limited of the three. Major limitation: 1-amp total output and you can NOT adjust CVs. Despite what others may say, it's still a good, decent, inexpensive DCC system. Even with only 1-amp output, I could still run 2-3 locomotives. It is limited in expandibility. Bachmann has released a 5-amp booster for this unit.
Cheese, if you haven't dismissed it yet, consider the NCE Power Cab. You can read a review on it from my web site link below. Just click on Reviews on the left side of the page.
Hope that's a help...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I think you meant lcd but anyways what upgrades besides a different throttle and booster for the express system? Are there wireless throttles for the zyphyr? And what exactly are cv's? If they are important to get the best performance/operation? if they are bachmann is out.
same questions as the others.
cheese4432 wrote:I think you meant lcd
Cheese,
Thanks. I already corrected it before you posted.
Yes, there are wireless options for the Zephyr. I believe the new Progidy Advance 2(?) has wireless upgradability, too.
Configuration variables (CVs) are inputs that allow you to tweak your locomotive so that can run better or add features that are built into the decoder - e.g. like lighting effects (Mars lights, ditch lights, scrobes, etc.) It depends on whether that is important to you or essential to your layout operations.
CV's are "Configuration Variables". They are adjustable on many decoders. The Bachmann DCC system does not have an option to make changes to the CV's.
tstage you got in just before I posted.
I think being able to change the CV's is important. I have gotten several decoders that have not been reset to factory settings. Making that change may be necessary.
One instance I can think of is an Atlas N scale Diesel I bought on Ebay. It was advertised as needing a new decoder because it would not run in DC or DCC. When I received it all I did was reset the decoder to factory spects and it ran fine after that.
So having the ability to change the settings is necessary in my book.
Bill
There are a couple of places where you can find the Power Cab for $139.
The Power cab is a 1.7A DCC system that is expandible and has wireless capability. Like the MRC Progidy Advance, you don't have the capability to run DC locomotives with any of the NCE DCC systems. (That's the choice that NCE made.)
With the Power Cab, the throttle, command station, and booster are rolled-up-into-one handheld unit. It does come with a 7' cable so it's considered a tethered* walk-around system. (*The Power Cab has to stay connected to the PCP panel in order to be powered. Otherwise, the layout shuts down.) By adding the Smart Booster, the Power Cab increase to 3A of total output and becomes a true walk-around system. Like the Zephyr, you can adjust CVs by either programming on the main (OPS mode) and using the programming track.
At present, the Power Cab does not have a computer port (yet!) to hook up to a PC. NCE is "working" on a USB port for it but it hasn't materialized yet. The NCE Powerhouse Pro system does have a computer port.
The Power Cab is also limited in the amount of locomotives in it's recall stack (2). The Powerhouse Pro can recall or keep track of 6. The Zephyr can recall at least 10, if not more.
Storing locomotive addresses and recalling addresses are two entirely different things. The recall stack is the number of most recently used locomotive addresses that you can access by pressing the RECALL button. You can always manually select a locomotive's address be pressing the SELECT button. The RECALL button is just a faster and more convenient method.
Again, Cheese, you can read more details on the Power Cab and Smart Booster from the review links on my web site. There's also pictures added to give you a better idea of what the system looks like.
I like the sound and look of the nce. Does anyone know if the mc system has wireless throttle capibility? because if it doesn't it is out.
According to the MRC web site, the Prodigy Advance 2 "Squared" is "wireless ready". There is a wireless conversion set for the Prodigy Advance but it hasn't been released yet. (See bottom of page in 2nd link.) It doesn't look like the Prodigy Express has wireless capability.
You can add a wireless throttle/system to the Power Cab and Zephyr.
those are a little to expensive for me so the mrc is OUT.
The competion is now between the zyphyr and the power cab.
Does anyone else have experience with these two systems? Besides only two people have been answering there's another 6 people last time I checked.
cheese4432 wrote: I have narrrowed down my choices to three systems mrc prodigy express system...I found it for $115digitrax zyphyr system...I found it for $160bachmann e-z dcc system...I found it for $70.65nce power cab...I found it for $139.95 I am looking for the pro's and con's of each system.Also upgradibility, personal experience, limitaions of the system, what it can do, and accesories by the manufacture. Please try not to turn this in a 3+ page argument. And I am not looking for comparison's.....I can make my own, but reviews are always welcome.
I see in the time I started reading to the time I posted (about 5 mins) you dropped the MRC unit.
I was sitting on this same fence when I was trying to decide what unit to buy myself.
IMHO I would go with the Digitrax Zyphyr. Here is why. Digitrax has done a wonderful job about making everything in their lineup compatable with one and another. When and if your railroad grows you wont need to replace the whole unit. The Zyphyr command station can be used as a booster, it uses the same loconet that the other digitrax command stations use, It will interface with the UR91 (wireless throttle jack) and all the currently available throttles that Digitrax offers, plus the unit itself is a throttle. Another BIG plus is having the ability to use a locobuffer and JMRI on your computer to set the command station, throttles, accessories like a PM42, or AR1, and also program decoders.
The NCE offerings are pretty nice and I have used the ProCab wireless on a friends layout Nice system all and all but he didnt like it as well as the digitrax setup that the others in my train club used. I dont know alot about the compatability of the different command stations or accessories but I dont think that they have the flexability as the digitrax. On the plus side of the NCE you dont have to know how to read Hex to program your decoder. On my digitrax there is some stuff in decimal and some in hex but I know how to read hex so to me it is not a big deal.
Both systems are good and I think you would be happy but you should also consider what system you can get stuff for. Decoders are not an issue they will all work on any system. I cant get much for NCE around VA Beach but I can get alot of Digitrax from 3 different train stores and another that is not that far into North Carolina. I would see what you can find in your local stores or what they can order for you if you have train/hobby stores in your area before deciding. There is nothing like having a good thing that you cant get what you want to make it better.
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Massey makes a good point. Find out what system is most supported around your area - that includes train clubs, as well as LHSes. It's important that you find someone that is knowledgeable about the system you use/are interested in so that you have someone you can go to with any questions that will come up.
Digitrax makes a very good product and it is very flexible system, with a number of pluses. It still comes down to preference and what system is best going to work for you and your layout needs.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
cheese4432 wrote:Are there wireless throttles for the zyphyr?
Are there wireless throttles for the zyphyr?
Yes and no. The Zephyr itself is a completely self-contained DCC command station/booster/throttle (like the NCE system). So, no you cannot have a wireless throttle in the Zephyr. What you can do though is buy a DT400r and the UR91 (wireless throttle and reciever, respectively) you may also need an additional UP5 panel or two and some loconet cables. You plug the UR91 into the Loconet, and then after acquiring the loco, you are able to unplug the DT400r from the system and use it wirelessly.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874 wrote: cheese4432 wrote:Are there wireless throttles for the zyphyr? Yes and no. The Zephyr itself is a completely self-contained DCC command station/booster/throttle (like the NCE system). So, no you cannot have a wireless throttle in the Zephyr. What you can do though is buy a DT400r and the UR91 (wireless throttle and reciever, respectively) you may also need an additional UP5 panel or two and some loconet cables. You plug the UR91 into the Loconet, and then after acquiring the loco, you are able to unplug the DT400r from the system and use it wirelessly.
Someone's been doin' their homework. Dan, if and when that day comes for you to pick out a DCC system, you're going to be well-prepared to make that decision.
When is decided -> after I figure out if I can fit more than a 3'x3' module in my room next year, and then pay for the module... and the new toys from Walthers...
What system depends on what the club gets... if anything...
And I wouldn't say that is exactly "homework" Digitrax puts it in a really easy to find place.
Hooking up the Smart Booster if very easy. Two wires go to the track and a 4-contact RJ-12 cable is attached to a UTP (universal throttle port) panel. Additional UTP panel panels can then be daisy-chained to one another by using the same type cable 4-connect cable.
My Smart Booster review goes into it more in depth, which includes pictures.
Usually don't post here, more of a lurker, but I've found the Zephyer to be a reliable system on my n scale layout. You also might want to look into the Lenz 100 (150? Not sure on model only brand) system as I've heard rave reviews on it from other modelers and saw it wasn't on your list.
-Matt
I had to decide on a DCC system myself not to long ago. Both the Zephyr and the PowerCab are good systems, but I decided to go with the Zephyr and I'll give you my reasons.The Zephyr has a computer interface right now, NCE has been promising one for the PowerCab ever since it was introduced, but it is still not out yet(I don't doubt they will produce it,I just didn't want to wait for it).The Zephyr has more amperage out of the box(2.5 amps), so you are less likely to need a booster later. If you do get a booster, you can still use the built in booster. With the PowerCab, if you get the 3 amp smartbooster, you loose the 1.7 amps of the cab itself.The Zephyr has seperate program track outputs.You can add wireless to the zephyr without upgrading it. To add wireless to the PowerCab, you have to upgrade to the ProCab.The PowerCab does have some advantages also. I have not used a PowerCab but from what I hear it is easier to use(Not that I find the Zephyr difficult). If your layout is small enough to use a tethered cab, the PowerCab will give you walk around control without buying another cab.To interface my computer to the Zephyr I used the circuit at the bottom of this page(it cost me about $5):
http://www.teamdigital1.com/support_tools.html
JMRI is great for programming decoders and I have noticed that using its send DCC Packet function, I can control functions all the way up to f28.
no wireless with the SB3. That's a seperate add-on.
The UTP (or Universal Throttle Port) panel comes with four (4) RJ-12 connector ports: 2 facing the front (fascia side) and 2 facing the back. The two front ports are for connecting your throttles. The two rear ports are for connecting to the Smart Booster and for daisy-chaining to other UTP panels.
The Smart Booster only has to be connected to one UTP panel and all other panels can be daisy-chained from that one. To connect the Smart Booster to the UTP panel or the UTP panels to one another, you use a RJ-12 4-wire cab bus cable.
Once you have the Smart Booster connected to your UTP panel, and any additional UTP panels daisy-chained from that panel, you can then disconnect and connect your Power Cab to any UTP port located around your layout. If you want to go wireless, you must purchase a separate wireless system.
I've used both Zephyr and PowerCab systems and each respective manufacturer's more advanced systems. I'll state upfront I'm biased towards NCE. For a newbie like yourself, my experience has been that they find the NCE system easier to use with fewer explanations.
My first piece of advice to anyone who asks your question is to go online to each manufacturers' website, download the manuals and read them thoroughly. The first question is then "Which manual can you understand?" You shouldn't need to have the system in front of you to be able to read and understand a well written manual.
My other advice will be contrary to what others have said, and that is forget about which system has the most users in the area and which LHS sell what systems. Based on your postings it sounds like you intend to purchase a system via mailorder. If so, what your local hobby store carries makes no difference unless you simnply plan on using them for solving problems and not purchasing your systems from them.
My other advice is to consider which throttle/controller seems to be laid out the most logically and easiest to follow. Remember that the throttle is the most used component and is the interface between you and the system. If it is difficult to use, carry, read and operate then you won't enjoy using the system.
When I purchased my NCE PHP I had read each manual thoroughly and had never seen a PHP before, but I could read and comprehend their manual. So that's what I bought.
One of the downsides of the Digitrax system, Zephyr or any other, is that CVs are programmed in hexadecimal. Based on your post about 'What is a CV?" I'll assume that your knowledge of DCC is limited and about hex is even more limited. The NCE PowerCab is programmed in plain english. Both the system manual and their decoder manuals will walk you through step by step on how to program a decoder on their system. The display on the throttle asks you questions and prompts you for "Yes" or "No" type responses.
A second advantage to PowerCab is a much better display screen. The screen and its prompts will walk you through programming, acquiring locos, selection decoder functions and even thing else done on the system.
Regarding upgradabilty. IMO the NCE has the advantage. By upgradability I mean upgrading the system software, not the ability to add components to the basic system. NCE systems have the ability for the user to replace the computer chip inside when software upgrades are needed. Zephyr does not have this ability. Think of it this way. You have a computer, I'll assume you're running some form of Windows. Imagine if every time there was an update to Windows you had to either send it in to be updated or simply couldn't update it to take advantage of new features. If someone can tell me the last time Digitrax issued a softwear upgrade, that didn't require a return of the command station, I'd like to hear when it was.
Expandibilty is probably a draw. The Zephyr allows adding additional throttles and I've seend it used as a booster in a larger Digitrax system. The PowerCab throttle can be used as a regular ProCab should you decide to move up to a PowerHousePro system in the future or visit a layout using NCE. Many NCE PHP users are purchasing PowerCab systems to use as dedicated programming units. The price of a PowerCab is not much more than a ProCab.
A downside of NCE is that to use the programming track, the main power is shut down. Hence the reason PHP users have been using PowerCabs for this purpose. You also can not run a DC loco on NCE. Doing such is not recommend by most manufacturers due to the way the electrical current is controlled to do this and the amount of heat generated in the motor. Most people will agree that once you go DCC you won't want to run DC again so that the ability to do such diminishes in importance the longer you have the system.
The abilty to connect a PC to the system is an advantage, but not necessary. Each system ahs different pros and cons. You can use a PC to program decoders using various software such as DecoderPro. For a Zephyr you need to purchase additional hardware to do this. NCE is getting the final testing done on their USB based interface for the PowerCab. As is typical of NCE, the introduction of this component has been delayed to ensure that it has been thoroughly tested and to make sure sufficient quantities have been produced to meet demand.
Both systems have wireless that can be added on. Not a cheap option and not necessary to begin using the system. IMO, the NCE radio beats the Digitrax system for usability.
The availability of additional components for either system is excellent. Also most aftermarket components like circuit breakers and reversers will work with either system. Remember, that because of the NMRA standards and mfg'ers decoders can be used on any system. You may develop a preference for one manufacturer's decoders but you are not limited to using Digitrax decoders with a Zephyr or NCE decoders with a NCE system.
jktrains
jktrains wrote: Cheese,I've used both Zephyr and PowerCab systems and each respective manufacturer's more advanced systems. I'll state upfront I'm biased towards NCE. For a newbie like yourself, my experience has been that they find the NCE system easier to use with fewer explanations.One of the downsides of the Digitrax system, Zephyr or any other, is that CVs are programmed in hexadecimal. Based on your post about 'What is a CV?" I'll assume that your knowledge of DCC is limited and about hex is even more limited. The NCE PowerCab is programmed in plain english. Both the system manual and their decoder manuals will walk you through step by step on how to program a decoder on their system. The display on the throttle asks you questions and prompts you for "Yes" or "No" type responses. jktrains
I myself prefers the Zephyr and the Super Chief as they are so easy to use but I am also biased towards Digitrax.
One small error in your post that I would like to correct is the need to program in exadecimal, with the Zephyr and the DT400 throttle all the programming is done in decimal with the option of using exa if one wishes. Exadecimal programming with Degitrax is long gone.
Jacw W.
Jack W.
jktrains wrote:
One of the downsides of the Digitrax system, Zephyr or any other, is that CVs are programmed in hexadecimal.
Sorry, but that's wrong. You can program in digital or hex with Digitrax products since the release of the DT300 some 7 years ago. The old DT100 & DT200 throttles only programmed in hex, this is true. But since Nov. 2000 and the release of the DT300 (and now the DT400), Digitrax has supported digital and hex programming. The Zephyr is also able to program in digital.
I'd like to hear an NCE user actually admit that NCE needs constant upgrades to keep up with technology while Digitrax systems do not. The Digitrax Chief system is at least 10 years old, and has only ever had one upgrade shortly after it came out to fix a bug. Just how many NCE upgrades have been mailed out over the last 10 years?
Think of it this way. You have a computer running Windows. Imagine if you could own an operating system that almost never needed to be to be upgraded? If you wanted any advanced feature, you simply bought that feature and plugged it in without ever having to upgrade your operating system. That's what Digitrax is like.
Agreed, for the time being. When I talked with Norm of Digitrax at the Springfield, MA show this past January, he said that while he couldn't promise anything, he thought that the Digitrax duplex radio throttles should be out by the end of this year. Which means that plugging in to aquire locos will soon be a thing of the past for Digitrax radio users.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
One thing is that the nce is cheaper and has a knob for the throttle on the hand held and I'm not seeing one on the digitrax throttles. Yes I am gettingthis through mail order because hobby shops are an hour or more away.
With the nce with out having to get the booster I can get another hand held to go in the second port on the second panel right? Or do I need a the 1.3 amp smart booster to do that?
On the digitrax to get wireless I need to buy a reciever and a wireless throttle correct?
Assuming that I am correct with the nce it will probably be cheaperr in the long run. Off to the manufactures websites......
The Zephyr throttle control is a knob with a lever arm on it. The UT4 throttle has a very big knob on it and the DT400 throttle has 2 encoder knobs on it. I don't think you can get a Digitrax throttle without a knob of some kind.
As for cheapness in the long run, it rather depends what your end point is. If you are going to stick with the basic system only, then the NCE is cheaper. If you need to add the booster and a walk around throttle to the NCE and only a walk around throttle to the Digitrax the D will be cheaper. Figure out your end point and then cost out the bits from each manufacturer to get there.
cheese4432 wrote:One thing is that the nce is cheaper and has a knob for the throttle on the hand held and I'm not seeing one on the digitrax throttles. Yes I am gettingthis through mail order because hobby shops are an hour or more away.
No. The Power Cab and ProCab throttles do not have a knob. They have coarse and fine adjustment buttons and an thumb (encoder) wheel to change speeds. (See area 2 in picture below.)
Click picture to enlarge
The MRC Prodigy throttles have a knob. (I think it's also an encoder.)
Yes. You can buy a ProCab or a CAB-04p or -04e as a 2nd throttle. The Power Cab will only handle one (1) additional throttle. If you purchase the Smart Booster (SB3), you can add up to 3 additional throttles other than the Power Cab. And, with the Smart Booster, you don't even need to use the Power Cab on the layout. You will still need the Power Cab and PCP panel to program locomotives.