Saw something interesting last night.

[Anonymous]

While trainwatching last night at Delray Junction in Detroit, a train slowly approached a switch, and stopped. I had my scanner on, and heard him tell the operator, "This switch is not cooperating. Need permission to handle manually". The conductor got off the engine and threw the switch manually. A few minutes later the CSX maintainer showed up and did something. A little later another intermodel train slowly approached the switch, barely moving. When he was about 100 feet from the switch, a strobe light on the relay house next to the switch flashed a couple times, and the switch indicator changed from green to yellow. The engineer immediately began accelerating past the switch onto the industrial track.

It appears that they may have some type of remote control, similar to garage door openers,  on the locomotives, to avoid manual handling of switches. Anyone know anything about this.

[nbrodar]

Some locations have radio controlled switches.    Each switch has a code (like a DCC address).  You dial the code into the radio, and the switch is suppose to throw.  The lights show the process was sucessful.

Nick

[R. T. POTEET]

While trainwatching last night at Delray Junction in Detroit, a train slowly approached a switch, and stopped. I had my scanner on, and heard him tell the operator, "This switch is not cooperating. Need permission to handle manually". The conductor got off the engine and threw the switch manually. A few minutes later the CSX maintainer showed up and did something. A little later another intermodel train slowly approached the switch, barely moving. When he was about 100 feet from the switch, a strobe light on the relay house next to the switch flashed a couple times, and the switch indicator changed from green to yellow. The engineer immediately began accelerating past the switch onto the industrial track.

It appears that they may have some type of remote control, similar to garage door openers,  on the locomotives, to avoid manual handling of switches. Anyone know anything about this.

Actually the conductor of this second train probably said something like, "There's a railfan standing out here; let's do something stupid and completely blow his mind!"

[Anonymous]

Thanks. That is what appears to have happened. I learned something last night. This must be somewhat universal around the country. It was a CSX train, with a CSX crew, and two fairly new looking BNSF AC4400s, obviously run through power.

I have also heard yardmasters ask crews if the lead, or trailing engine is "equipped". Maybe that's what they are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Actually the conductor of this second train probably said something like, "There's a railfan standing out here; let's do something stupid and completely blow his mind!"

Actually I used to work for the Cand O, back in the 60s and 70s, when it was Chessie, and they still had cabooses, five man crews, and ran GP-9s. Things are definately different now. No computers then. We used to write up manifests by hand, and make five copies, and hoop up bills, and train orders, and make switch lists by hand, and post car cards on the doors of the cars, on those little wood blocks, with a pocketful of tacks and a tack hammer. No radios yet. Hand signals and lantern signals at night. And switch tenders in little shacks, and, and .....................

[nbrodar]

Any railroad radio can control the remote switches. There's no special box. It's just a matter of dialing in the code and "toning in" the switch.  IIRC, you can even do it with a keypad equipped hand held.

Equipped could mean any number of things.   Where I yardmaster, it normally refers to Cab Signals.  The yardmaster could also be asking if the engine is lead capable (radio, HTD, seats, toilet, etc)

Nick

[Anonymous]

The yardmaster could also be asking if the engine is lead capable (radio, HTD, seats, toilet, etc)

Yeah. I've heard them ask that too. Also, how's your fuel. Are your units back to back, etc. One more thing. After the train passed, the switch went back to it's normal position, for the straight track. Did they reset it from a mile away, or did it reset automatically? Also, why wouldn't the operator in the tower 100 yards away control the switch. Inquireing minds want to know these things.

[Anonymous]

While trainwatching last night at Delray Junction in Detroit, a train slowly approached a switch, and stopped. I had my scanner on, and heard him tell the operator, "This switch is not cooperating. Need permission to handle manually". The conductor got off the engine and threw the switch manually. A few minutes later the CSX maintainer showed up and did something. A little later another intermodel train slowly approached the switch, barely moving. When he was about 100 feet from the switch, a strobe light on the relay house next to the switch flashed a couple times, and the switch indicator changed from green to yellow. The engineer immediately began accelerating past the switch onto the industrial track.

It appears that they may have some type of remote control, similar to garage door openers,  on the locomotives, to avoid manual handling of switches. Anyone know anything about this.

Actually the conductor of this second train probably said something like, "There's a railfan standing out here; let's do something stupid and completely blow his mind!"

Hahahaha!!!!!!!

 

[jecorbett]

Does this mean when my remote switch machines don't move the turnout points completely into proper allignment, that is actually prototypical?

[Anonymous]

The yardmaster could also be asking if the engine is lead capable (radio, HTD, seats, toilet, etc)

Yeah. I've heard them ask that too. Also, how's your fuel. Are your units back to back, etc. One more thing. After the train passed, the switch went back to it's normal position, for the straight track. Did they reset it from a mile away, or did it reset automatically? Also, why wouldn't the operator in the tower 100 yards away control the switch. Inquireing minds want to know these things.

Or even a thousand miles away... oooo scary.

[nbrodar]

The yardmaster could also be asking if the engine is lead capable (radio, HTD, seats, toilet, etc)

Yeah. I've heard them ask that too. Also, how's your fuel. Are your units back to back, etc. One more thing. After the train passed, the switch went back to it's normal position, for the straight track. Did they reset it from a mile away, or did it reset automatically? Also, why wouldn't the operator in the tower 100 yards away control the switch. Inquireing minds want to know these things.

Is there a manned tower nearby?

There's probably an island circuit (similar to a grade crossing approach circuit), that flips the switch back over after the train clears.

Nick

[Dave-the-Train]

Does this mean when my remote switch machines don't move the turnout points completely into proper allignment, that is actually prototypical?

100% 

[Dave-the-Train]

The yardmaster could also be asking if the engine is lead capable (radio, HTD, seats, toilet, etc)

Yeah. I've heard them ask that too. Also, how's your fuel. Are your units back to back, etc. One more thing. After the train passed, the switch went back to it's normal position, for the straight track. Did they reset it from a mile away, or did it reset automatically? Also, why wouldn't the operator in the tower 100 yards away control the switch. Inquireing minds want to know these things.

Is there a manned tower nearby?

There's probably an island circuit (similar to a grade crossing approach circuit), that flips the switch back over after the train clears.

Nick

  Please explain? TIA

[nbrodar]

Prior to the adoption of the speed sensing approach circuits now in widespread use, grade crossing were equipped with island circuits. Basically, it is a separate track circuit overlaid on any signalling circuits already present.  Or a stand alone circuit in non-signaled areas.  Either way the circuit was an "island" of detection.

The length varies depending on the track speed.  The higher the speed, the longer the circuit.   When the train occupied the circuit the grade crossing devices would activate and stay active until the train cleared the circuit.

The are also widely used at uncontrolled rail crossings at grade, and as part of the control mechanism for un-manned movable bridges.

Nick

[galaxy]

While trainwatching last night at Delray Junction in Detroit, a train slowly approached a switch, and stopped. I had my scanner on, and heard him tell the operator, "This switch is not cooperating. Need permission to handle manually". The conductor got off the engine and threw the switch manually. A few minutes later the CSX maintainer showed up and did something. A little later another intermodel train slowly approached the switch, barely moving. When he was about 100 feet from the switch, a strobe light on the relay house next to the switch flashed a couple times, and the switch indicator changed from green to yellow. The engineer immediately began accelerating past the switch onto the industrial track.

It appears that they may have some type of remote control, similar to garage door openers,  on the locomotives, to avoid manual handling of switches. Anyone know anything about this.

 

What I'd like to know is what kind of scanner, where does one get one, and how much would one cost??

[genelbradleyjr]

yes please respond to that. I'd be interested in purchasing a scanner myself.

[delray1967]

I think scanners are illeagle to use in your car, double check the laws in your area to be safe.  It'd be a shame to get ticketed for such a thing.

Popeye, did you work in the Detroit area?  I'm planning a layout focusing on Delray and FSUD and am having trouble finding info about this area.  I've been railfanning this area with my dad since I was a kid(some thirty years ago).

Thanks!

[Flashwave]

Most places it's technically illegal. The fear is that you can pick up Emergency Channels, including the 911 operator office. (You can, I accidently did, and switched off in the next 15 seconds) If you have a radio HAM license, you SHOULD be in the clear. But don't go waving it at the cop.  

[loathar]

This site has streaming train channels. They also list what frequencies the railroads use in different areas.
http://www.railroadradio.net/

Here's some info on radios and how to use them.
http://www.trainweb.org/railnet/rr_radio/rr_radio.htm

 

[BlueHillsCPR]

Cool links Loathar!

[GraniteRailroader]

Most places it's technically illegal. The fear is that you can pick up Emergency Channels, including the 911 operator office. (You can, I accidently did, and switched off in the next 15 seconds) If you have a radio HAM license, you SHOULD be in the clear. But don't go waving it at the cop.  

Let me clarify that statement a little bit...

A few states, I wouldn't say 'most', have laws that you are not allowed to drive around with a scanner on in your vehicle, or something similar to that. The justification is, is that they don't want people using it to aide them in commiting crimes. 

When all is said and done, if public safety agencies don't want you to hear something, you won't. The 'average' person listening to a scanner won't know how to listen to something that's been changed with voice inversion, or have the ability to listen to some of the newer trunked systems (type of radio network) without an expensive add-on or a new expensive scanner altogether.

Just check with your local police department to find out what the laws are, and ask them to give you a copy of them on paper so you know your rights. 

[hobo9941]

This should clarify it for you. If you've never been convicted of a felony, you can have a scanner in your vehicle. The new law has been signed.

New Michigan Scanner Law

House Bill 4544 sponsored by Kevin Elsenheimer (primary), Rick Jones, Gary Newell, Mike Nofs, David Law and Joel Sheltrown, has passed the Michigan Legislature and was sent to Governor Granholm on February 21, 2006 for signature. The bill makes new provisions regarding possession of a scanner that will receive police frequencies in a motor vehicle and clarifies and amends sec.508 of 1931 PA 328 (MCL 750.508), the Michigan Scanner Law.

The new law supposedly will allow anyone (except a person convicted of a felony in the past 5-years) to possess a radio that will receive signals sent on a frequency assigned by the FCC for police or other law enforcement, fire fighting, emergency medical, federal, state, or local corrections, or homeland security purposes. If a felon simply possesses such a radio, it¹s a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment up to one year and a fine of $1,000. Licensed Radio Amateurs are exempt from this provision. (Note that the law no longer just pertains to vehicles and a permit from the Michigan State Police is no longer required as before.)

The bill also would prohibit a person from carrying or possessing a radio described above, in the commission or attempted commission of a crime (Radio Amateurs included). If the underlying crime were a misdemeanor with a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 93 days, but less than one year, a violation (of the new law) would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year¹s imprisonment, a maximum fine of $1,000, or both. If the underlying crime were a misdemeanor or a felony with a maximum term of imprisonment of one year or more, a violation of the bill would be a felony punishable by up to two year¹s imprisonment, a maximum fine of $2,000, or both. The prohibition would not apply to the commission or attempted commission of a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum term of less than 93 days¹ imprisonment.

The bill does not apply to the use of radar detectors.

PUBLIC VIEWS AND COMMENTS

The new bill is intended to correct problems inherent in the old law and deserved attention. According to Representative Elsenheimer¹s office....."as we all know, criminals don¹t ask for permission to use a scanner when they plan their illegal behavior, so all the current law does is make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens."

Many citizens were not familiar with the scanner law and had to find out the hard way that interpretation by law enforcement varied considerably throughout the state.



The Michigan State Police, in sanctioning the bill, indicated they had a full-time person attending to scanner permits under the old law. It¹ll be interesting to see if they will be one person short now.

[fmilhaupt]

Ah, the Fort Street Union Depot, Union Belt and Delray.

About fifteen years ago I'd begun building a layout that was going to be based on the trackage from FSUD down to Delray and selected scenes along the C&O west from Delray. 

For the era I wanted to model (transition era), it was a really neat stretch of railroad, with the C&O, Wabash and Pennsy all running passenger trains through there as well as switching the industries. Plus, there were the Wabash and C&O river ferry slip yards along the way. The only tough piece of equipment to find was an NW5 to switch FSUD.

I spent an afternoon at the Map Room of the Graduate Library at the University of Michigan (on the 12th floor of the annex) and came away with photocopies of the Sanborn Fire Insurance maps for the sections of Detroit containing the trackage from FSUD to Delray and up the C&O to the Dearborn City Limits. They showed the track arrangement and named the businesses along the line.

Moving out of the house I had then put an end to those plans.

I have no idea what happened to those copies, now. If I were to start over again, I'd make those copies over and then visit the Dearborn Public LIbrary to copy the relvant parts of the Dearborn volumes of the Sanborn maps.