Metal or plastic wheels in HO scale, pros and cons?

[electrolove]

Hi guys!

Do you use metal or plastic wheels on your HO scale rolling stock? What are the pros and cons?

[Texas Zepher]

Do you use metal or plastic wheels on your HO scale rolling stock? What are the pros and cons?

In Theory....

PROs:
better rolling
keep track cleaner
heavier so lowers the car's center of gravity
allow electrical pick up for the cars

CONs:
more expensive
noisy
cause more short circuits

OTHER:
They can be more detailed
They can look better (but the bright shiny nickel-silver wheels can also look silly - painting  them is a fairly simple solution).

Personal commentary follows:  Our club was having dirty track problems so one of the steps we took was to convert the fleet to metal wheels.  About $1000 and a whole summer later we were done.  The cars DO ROLL better, but that is irrelevant for us since our max train size is 10 cars anyway. We do get more cars rolling away from where they were spotted.   The track IS NOT cleaner than it was before, changing them made no difference in the amount of cleaning we have to do.   We definitely get more short circuits (of course the Peco Insulfrog turnouts we addopted as "standard" at about the same time didn't help - we've since reverted back to the electro-frog).  And the noise is outrageous.  One train isn't bad, two or three trains ok, but when we get a full operating session running (up to 11 trains) we have to have the dispatcher shout to be able to hear their directions over the noise, and this was BEFORE everyone started bringing down sound equiped locomotives.  There is a strong movement on some of the club members part to convert back to the plastic.

As for my home layout.  I still haven't decided.  I think I will go with whatever comes on the cars until I find some need to convert.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The metal wheels roll easier, more freely. This allows the addition of more cars. As for the shininess of the metal wheel sets, I darken the wheels with a black laundry marker. It makes a real difference in the appearance.

[BRAKIE]

The club I am a member of went to all metal wheels and like Texas Zepher we found it didn't matter as far as keeping the track clean..I use both on my past Industrial switching layout.

BTW..The other club I am a member of uses both types of wheels as a member's choice.

[spidge]

I agree with TZ that they do get a bit noisy. If I run more than one train any conversation that is happening nearby gets louder, but its not that uncomfortable, yet.

I do think they help keep the tracks cleaner but I have no difinative proof of that. I do like the noise when one train is running, you can hare the click-clack.

I model in N-scale and the metal wheels are also low profile so they brought up a few inacurracies in the trackwork. The plastic Micro-trains pizza cutter wheels run very reliably and are somewhat difficult to derail. You have to watch the metal whheels more closely also because they will cause a short if they derail or span a gap on a turnout or frog.

[tstage]

And the noise is outrageous.  One train isn't bad, two or three trains ok, but when we get a full operating session running (up to 11 trains) we have to have the dispatcher shout to be able to hear their directions over the noise, and this was BEFORE everyone started bringing down sound equiped locomotives.  There is a strong movement on some of the club members part to convert back to the plastic.

Boy!  I'm glad that prototype isn't that way...

Tom 

[BRAKIE]

The metal wheels roll easier, more freely. This allows the addition of more cars. As for the shininess of the metal wheel sets, I darken the wheels with a black laundry marker. It makes a real difference in the appearance.

 

Jeffery,I must respectfully disagree..My Athearn trucks with plastic wheels out rolls my Atlas,Walthers and IM cars.They are about even with my Athearn RTR cars with the  metal wheels.All of my Accurail cars ride on Athearn trucks.

As far as the shinny wheels I paint 'em a rusty color.Thankfully the Athearn RTR cars wheel face is already a dark color.

As a side note I am slowly replacing the Walthers trucks with Athearn trucks for better roll ability.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Brakie: I was comparing them to the cheap plastic wheel sets and trucks that many of my cars came with. I have some of the Athearn trucks you refer to and they roll very well. Those I don't change out.

[BRAKIE]

And the noise is outrageous.  One train isn't bad, two or three trains ok, but when we get a full operating session running (up to 11 trains) we have to have the dispatcher shout to be able to hear their directions over the noise, and this was BEFORE everyone started bringing down sound equiped locomotives.  There is a strong movement on some of the club members part to convert back to the plastic.

Boy!  I'm glad that prototype isn't that way...

Tom 

Tom,I'm not to sure about that..I have had several  NS trains to sneak up on me while railfaning .Sadly welded rail has ended a lot of the old jointed rail click clack.

[BRAKIE]

Brakie: I was comparing them to the cheap plastic wheel sets and trucks that many of my cars came with. I have some of the Athearn trucks you refer to and they roll very well. Those I don't change out.

 

Cool..Yeah those old hard rolling plastic wheels need the axe.I really hate the Accurail wheels.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Cool..Yeah those old hard rolling plastic wheels need the axe.I really hate the Accurail wheels.[xx(]

[mlehman]

I'm a metal wheel fan myself. Rolling stock doesn't hit the layout until it has them. I also like how metal wheels contribute to a lower center of gravity, but this is a bigger issue with my narrow gauge than with standard.

I've seen the comments on having mixed results as far as plastic wheels being a generator of grunge on the rails. Something to think about is that the composition of plastic can vary greatly, depending the source, batch, and specs of the plastic. Some may cause more problems than metal. Other plastics may be virtually as inert as metal. So it's possible that the problems with grunge reported by some modelers with plastic wheels may be because of this variability. Some plastics may shed or release enough of their constituents that it will cause substantial grunging.

Using metal wheels takes this variable out of the equation. What may be an issue for some metal wheels is the blackening can wear off and contribute to grunge. But once the wheel treads are shiny, this should cease to be a problem, except for the contribution made by any new metal wheels added to your rolling stock fleet.

As for metal wheel noise, this may be an issue with large layouts supporting multiple trains operating at one time. This is less of an issue with most home layouts. I enjoy the clickety-clack myself.

[electrolove]

This is a interesting discussion.

Let's pretend that I go for metal wheels. What are the common brands? Maybe someone can point me to some pictures.

[WSOR 3801]

My preference is Intermountain (IM) wheels.  All metal, needle point ends.  Seem to work best in Accurail and MDC trucks.  The Athearn trucks seem to be a bit wider, causing slop and a few derailments.  IM wheels are used at the MSI-Chicago layout/torture test.  I usually buy them by the 100-pack (~$60, sometimes less). Does 25 cars.

Kadee and P2K also make wheels.  The axle ends are plastic.  Helps insulate if you have all-metal trucks.  In plastic sideframes, they do not roll as good as the IM wheels. 

MAny of the newer RTR cars (Athearn, Walthers, etc.) come with metal wheels that work fine.  I have not felt the urge to change those out. 

 

[CP5415]

I'm slowly converting all of my rolling stock to metal.

They roll a lot better & sound really cool when they hit this one spot on my track work where I loose track of everything just so I can concentrate on the clickity clack!

Plastic just doesn't cut it in comparison

Gordon

[mondotrains]

Hi Electrolove,

To answer your question about which wheelsets to use, I can share information I received and analyzed 3 years ago when I asked the same question.

I was told back then that Intermontains are best because of the needle-point axle but Proto 2000 wheelsets are cheaper.  Some liked Kadee wheelsets and others thought I should buy the specific wheelset for each car as made by Reboxx (their wheelsets have axles of various lengths to fit cars with variable spacing between the trucks).

I spent weeks testing every kind of wheelset.  I actually bought some Reboxx wheelsets for some of my passenger cars because of the specific axle length required for them.

I bought some of the Intermountains and Protos and found the Protos had axles that are too short (some of the posters to my question had mentioned the short axle problem).

Here's what I found after my testing.

I found that the Intermountains did roll the best but there is an inherent problem with that.  Even though I carefully leveled my layout everywhere, using long levels and those "refrigerator leveling feet" on my benchwork legs, there are places where my sidings are not PERFECTLY flat.  When I spotted a car with Intermountain wheels on some sidings, they didn't stay put....they rolled back onto the mainline.  Even spots in my yard tended to roll out onto a turnout.  Protos had the same problem as did the Reboxx.

Believe it or not, I settled on the tried and proven Kadee wheelsets.  Since the axles are plastic, the wheels roll nicely but they are not tooooooo slick.  Therefore, when I spot a car on a siding, it stays put.

I really think that folks who like and need the rolling quality of the Intermountains and Protos are running very long trains.  I only run trains of about 8 cars on my 18' by 16' layout and would rather have my cars stay put on my sidings.

So, my recommendation is that if you're only going to run short trains, go with Kadees.  If you're looking to run 20 and 30-car trains, then maybe you need wheelsets that are really slick.  But, don't expect them to stay put when you spot them on a siding.

By the way, some of the Intermountain wheelsets in my test lost their plating on the treads.  Apparently, they are brass plated with a silver type metal and some wore off.  The Kadees are solid cast zinc and so there is no plating to wear off.  Some of the Protos also had their plating where off.

 

Hope this helps.

Mondo

 

[BRAKIE]

This is a interesting discussion.

Let's pretend that I go for metal wheels. What are the common brands? Maybe someone can point me to some pictures.

 

At first I used P2K 33" wheels in Athearn trucks on my club cars..Now I prefer the new Athearn trucks with metal wheels..However,like I said I use both since both works equally well.

[electrolove]

Mondo,

I really like tests like this. You have a good point here. The cars should stay where you leave them, that's important. Thanks a lot for telling me and others about that problem. I will check out the Kadee wheels. But... how do I know what Kadee wheels I should use for my Walthers Quad hoppers?

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-4913

[Nieuweboer]

I chnaged about half ofmy cars to metal wheels. We don't have much choice here and since my LHS had a sizable quantity of Lifelike Proto metal wheels that's what I decided on. I don't regret the choice since I think they compare favorably with kadee wheels that are standard on the RTR Kadee cars that I bought. As far as grunge collection is concerned I don't find much difference between plastic and metal wheels. There is one aspect though that I discovered, metal wheels are more vulnerable to track irregularities. In the beginning I had more derailments than with plastic wheels (mainly Athearn and Roundhouse) but repairing the track where this happened solved this problem. If you should decide on metal wheels remember that the majority of cars had 33" wheels whereas 36"wheels are mainly used on heavy freight cars and passenger cars.

[mondotrains]

Mondo,

I really like tests like this. You have a good point here. The cars should stay where you leave them, that's important. Thanks a lot for telling me and others about that problem. I will check out the Kadee wheels. But... how do I know what Kadee wheels I should use for my Walthers Quad hoppers?

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-4913

Electrolove,

I think you'll just have to try the 33" wheelsets and see if they fit.  You probably already know about the Reboxx reamer that cleans out and widens the journals in the trucks but I'll just remind you to try that tool if the wheels are too tight a fit.

 

Hope this helps.

Mondo

 

[Don Gibson]

Fiction vs. Fact:

DO Metal wheels ROll better than plastic?

 Depends on the sideframes. Perhaps the best rolling trucks of all time were  'Lindberg' with Delrin side frames, brass axles, and plastic wheels. They sold out to 'EB' in Glenview IL. My 'EB' trucks are now my #1 rollers.

Most lumber-yard Plywood has a slight 'bow' to it,  and 'super' rolling trucks can find it, wheras trucks with poorer rolling qualities stay put. Which is better?

DO metal wheels keep the track clean? (Old husbands tale)

Basically NO. Contaminants such as dust, oil, and carbon, lay down on the tracks, and need to be wiped off from time to time. Metal wheels however did 'polish' tarnish off of Brass track, which accounts for this tale's origin.

Does Nickel Silver Oxide have superior electricity characteristics?

 No.  It doesn't 'tarnish' (good) but will oxidize, and it's oxide does not conduct electricity (as there is no silver in it).

DO metal wheels improve 'trackability'?

Yes. By adding 'unsprung weight' and lowering the center of gravity.

Metal wheels make more Noise.

Yes, since they pass on vibrations. Sound deadeners such as Cork & Homosote insulate the track from the Plywood. Nails can pass on track vibrations to a plywood sheet, creating a 'Soundboard'.

[Texas Zepher]

And the noise is outrageous.

Boy!  I'm glad that prototype isn't that way..

  To bad it is about 4 octaves higher than than the prototype.