Virginian wrote:I was not directing any sarcasm at the French in order to belittle their railway achievements, or to try to elevate the US railway situation. I do not like the French. We saved their butts in two World Wars and they can not bring themselves to forgive us. I know, I worked with them. Therefore, they can kiss my you know what. And anyone else who doesn't like it can lump it.And the US is perfectly capable of building an excellent rail system. Just look at the one in Japan, paid for with US dollars.
I was not directing any sarcasm at the French in order to belittle their railway achievements, or to try to elevate the US railway situation. I do not like the French. We saved their butts in two World Wars and they can not bring themselves to forgive us. I know, I worked with them. Therefore, they can kiss my you know what. And anyone else who doesn't like it can lump it.
And the US is perfectly capable of building an excellent rail system. Just look at the one in Japan, paid for with US dollars.
Do you know any French people? Have you ever been to France? I think this is just blind hatred on your behalf. Unless the French raped your mother or murdered your little sister I don't see the purpose of your hatred. TheFrench are only rude to you if you come to their country and insist on speaking to them in English. But even if you speak to them in the crappiest French, they'll love you for it. I'm SURE a person like you has treated many a foreigner rudely.
The Acela carbody is a Bombardier product. That would make it Canadian technology.
dehusman wrote: The Amtrak Acela trainsets are basically TGV's. I had a friend who worked on the Acela program. The TGV windows leak, the Amtrak units had the fairings over the roof and underbody peieces keep blowing off, the brakes weren't up to a system with as many stops as the NEC and they had lots of other problems with them that nobody will talk about. If the French weren't the low bidder, the Acela sets would have been Swedish. Better technology.
ndbprr wrote:"it takes 4 days to across North America ." Sure does. Maybe the fact that the USA is about four times as big as France and has those pesky rockies as well as a desert to deal with might have some bearing
Actually, the US is about 17 times the size of France (3.5 million square miles vs. 210,000 square miles).
And SNCF doesn't have to contend with UP and CSX dispatchers who put Amtrak in situations where there are 3 trains and only one passing siding.
Andre - actually has taken Amtrak coast to coast
Midnight Railroader wrote: Virginian wrote: I was not directing any sarcasm at the French in order to belittle their railway achievements, or to try to elevate the US railway situation. I do not like the French. We saved their butts in two World Wars and they can not bring themselves to forgive us. I know, I worked with them. Therefore, they can kiss my you know what. And anyone else who doesn't like it can lump it. They saved ours first.
Virginian wrote: I was not directing any sarcasm at the French in order to belittle their railway achievements, or to try to elevate the US railway situation. I do not like the French. We saved their butts in two World Wars and they can not bring themselves to forgive us. I know, I worked with them. Therefore, they can kiss my you know what. And anyone else who doesn't like it can lump it.
Yep, if it wasnt for the French, their Army and their Navy, we'de still be saying things like "Sorry old chap! Thats just bollacks" Drinking our beer warm and have bad dental hygene.
Of course we did repay them by exporting our revolution to them which gave their king a very very short haircut...and in the chaos afterwords led to the rise of the first modern military nutjob dictator, Napoleon Bonapart, who did to the rest of Europe what sadly became a roadmap for the first 1/2 of the 20th century, talk about the unforseen consiquences of signing that paper on July 4, 1776
Have fun with your trains
Virginian wrote:And the US is perfectly capable of building an excellent rail system. Just look at the one in Japan, paid for with US dollars.
marknewton wrote: Virginian wrote: And the US is perfectly capable of building an excellent rail system. Just look at the one in Japan, paid for with US dollars. Utter nonsense. If you're going to make wildly inaccurate statements about Japanese railroad history, do it when nobody knowledgable is around. The men who pioneered railroads in Japan were from England, Germany and Norway, or were locals trained by these men. American influence and finance during the period of expansion was minimal.Work on the Shinkansen network started before WW2. Not too many US dollars being spent in Japan then, methinks. And the New Tokaido Line was designed, built, operated and maintained by Japanese railroaders, not Americans.Mark.
Virginian wrote: And the US is perfectly capable of building an excellent rail system. Just look at the one in Japan, paid for with US dollars.
There you go again, Mark, confusing the poor guy with facts.
Andre
This is the United States of America. ANYBODY can make all the wildly inaccurate statements they want to. Haven't you listened to any of the presidential candidates? Don't you watch network news?
I do not hate the French. I would have thought everyone would have picked up the hint when I said no white flags, and I am all steam. I am well aware that Layfayette, Rochambeau and quite a few other Frenchmen were invaluable allies in the Revolutionary War (even though the main reason the French Government got in it was because of "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend" thinking). I realize that without DeGrasse defeating the English fleet in the Battle of the Chesapeake, the ONLY major English naval defeat between the days of the Armada and WWII, that Cornwallis would have been reinforced at Yorktown and the outcome would have been seriously in doubt.
I do not hate the Japanese. I have been to Japan. Very ingeneous and hard working likable people. I worked with a Japanese engineer on a very famous book he was writing. I loved the trains. They actually think a schedule means something, a concept that has been totally lost in the United States, and that chaps my a$$ daily on numerous accounts. But, I must give just a little credit for any success they ever achieve in anything, to the nation that beat the ever loving you know what out of them, bombed out 35 square miles of their largest city in one night, and all this after they attacked us, and then rebuilt their whole darned country, wrote them a whole new constitution, helped transform them into a manufacturing giant, and gave them favored nation trade status.
Virginian wrote:This is the United States of America. ANYBODY can make all the wildly inaccurate statements they want to. Haven't you listened to any of the presidential candidates? Don't you watch network news?
I do not hate the Japanese...But, I must give just a little credit for any success they ever achieve in anything, to the nation that beat the ever loving you know what out of them, bombed out 35 square miles of their largest city in one night, and all this after they attacked us...
and then rebuilt their whole darned country, wrote them a whole new constitution, helped transform them into a manufacturing giant, and gave them favored nation trade status.
Newyorkcentralfan wrote: The Acela carbody is a Bombardier product. That would make it Canadian technology.
It is a French design assembled in Canada.
It was designed in France.
The components were built in France.
They were shipped to Canada.
It was assembled in Canada.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
grayfox1119 wrote:FERGIE: At that speed, I could be in Nova Scotia in 1:15 hours!!! Worcester to Boston, Boston to Calais, Maine, Calais Maine through New Brunswick to Nova Scotia!!!
Same for me... Once I get my passport!
I just can't believe how political this thread went Then again the French have the advantage of being rather dense... population that is. I can only imagine something like this would surely threathen the Airline and another industry who shall not be named.
Gawd!!! I missed uze Guyzzzz
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5959
If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007
Yikes!
Gentlemen,
Many of us have strong, mixed views of France's actions in recent and past history but hey......what does it matter if this was a publicity stunt or not? This train helped the world (including the U.S) briefly focus on the potentials of high speed passenger rail travel. Is that not a GOOD THING?
Yes, the U.S and Canada have too many long distance stretches, but there are dozens of corridors where this technology could prove viable. The public has to decide if it wants it or not.
Did anyone see the video clip of the train passing underneath a bridge full of onlookers? Can you imagine what a thrill that would have been for railfans? That thing whipped by faster than the wind speed of an F6 tornado!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I don't think this is a forum to pick on the French. Let's keep it in persective. Remember they gave us our Statue of Liberty and much more. Drop it there, and end our comments pertaining to French on a positive note. You are not supposed to judge people; you are supposed to pray for people.
Here in the USA, we should focus on transport if are to solve energy issues. Alternative energy sources, backed by both political parties, should be set aside. The real answer is alternative modes of transport. Railroads are much more fuel efficent and much more environmentally friendly than is the case with highways and airways. Yet, Uncle Sam spends more than 100 times more on highways and airports each year than he spends on railways.
Write your Congressman and your Senators. I do that.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Virginian wrote:I was not grinding an axe over a 62 years past war, I was stating facts. I am still chafing about a war that ended 142 years ago, with the wrong side winning !
Virginian wrote:I was not grinding an axe over a 62 years past war, I was stating facts.
Regardless of who won and who lost I know one thing for sure that Train was flying and if we don't take advantage of this technology we will all be loosers in the end!
BTW: Blue Jays are going to win the World Series this year
Have a peaceful Holiday
Fergie
Hey!
Anyone remember the French train that did around 575kph a few days ago, certainly got alot of attention, even non-train types mentioned it to me, pity it nearly started World War 3.
Trains are fun, big or small, fast or slow.
I live in Qld, Australia, I know what slow trains are - Oh ! I forgot, we have a 100mph Daily Tilt train that runs on 3'6" gauge - 'most of the time'.
Teditor.
Teditor
I will stand by this...
Nobody in the world moves FREIGHT the way we do in the USA.
As for the America-bashing... it's so last week. We get it. The Iraq thing. OK. We know. We know!
BTW, as an American veteran (Iraq and Bosnia), I don't just talk smack about American policy, I've lived it. But that's beside the point.
Also, over on another forum, I started French-bashing, and I realize it was wrong. I'm not a big fan of French foreign policy (or lack thereof), but the French have done a wonderful thing with this high-speed train.
Just as we Americans are getting quite sick of foreigners bashing all 300 million of us because of their disagreements with our administration's policies, starting now I will do my best to remember that the French people and their foreign policies are not the same thing either.
Good for the French. I hope someday we have the forsight in America to invest more in rail travel. Especially given how much we already subisize the airlines...
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave Vollmer wrote: Just as we Americans are getting quite sick of foreigners bashing all 300 million of us because of their disagreements with our administration's policies, starting now I will do my best to remember that the French people and their foreign policies are not the same thing either.
That's pretty cool.
I wonder why we couldn't have praised the accomplishment without bringing politics into it at all, though.
S W O O O O O O S S S H H ! ! !
It's a huge achievement for mankind I believe, because don't forget this is on normal train tracks and NOT the Mag-Lev trains! I have the priviledge of riding on the Mag-Lev train in SHanghai China 2 years ago and I can tell you, it's NOT borning at all! Can't wait to ride in the new TGV one day!
http://www.actionsupplies.biz/images/pix/China%20055.mpg
http://www.actionsupplies.biz/images/pix/China%20056.mpg
:-)
As we have all heard so very many times, those who refuse to learn from history, will surely be doomed by it. Case in point, the Railroads were king of the hill in moving freight and people back in 19th and early 20th century. But they sat on their laurels and never realized that moving people was equally as important as freight.
Then, when President Eisenhower realized during WW2 that our Interstate highway system was one big vulnerability to our country's security, the big highway expansion began. After the war, everyone wanted to travel.....cars were king for families, they could travel anythime, anywhere they wished, at less then $.20 a gallon.
What was the railroad industry doing during those time? Nothing!!! The railroads where in decay, many railroads were either being swallowed up or going out of business.
Had the top management of the Railroads had any foresight whatsoever, they could have seen this coming and planned for better service to carry passengers.
Our government, Stae and Ferderal, shares in this oversight. Like the stock market, they see, and plan, SHORT TERM.
Now that 9/11, the growing oil shortage, the growing green house gas controversy with Global Warming at our front doors, the dependancy on foreign oil, and the failures of the airline industry, have all demonstrated that we need a far better infrastructure to move people in greater numbers, faster, over greater distances.
I see signs of this happening. What Amtrak is trying to do, what they were able to do during this past winter snows in the midwest and Denver when cars, trucks and planes went nowhere. Ridership has steadily increased on the DownEaster that runs from Boston to Portland Maine and beyond soon. The Acela with it's highspeed East coast routes.
Here in Ma, they are trying to build a double track now from Boston to Worcester in central Ma, and hopefully fill in the areas with no double tracks from Worcester to Springfield. This will eliminate the freight/passenger train scheduling problems.
What can we do? Join the NARP ( National Association of Railroad Passengers ) and support their efforts to get more Federal funding intheir budgets for upgrading and expansion. Call or email our state and federal legislators to support railroads and interstate high speed passenger services.
When I see the news at night, and the traffic reports on video camera location, and see millions of cars all jammed up travelling to/from Boston ( only ONE city in this country ), I shake my head and say " why don't we have high speed railroads here, look at all the gas and polution we could save" , and these cars mostly have ONE (1) person in the car....how STUPID are we!!!
OK, that is my , sorry if I bored you guys too much, but I had to get this off my chest.
What can we do? Join the AARP ( American Association of Railroad Passengers ) and support their efforts to get more Federal funding intheir budgets for upgrading and expansion. Call or email our state and federal legislators to support railroads and interstate high speed passenger services.
I'm already a member of AARP (American Association of Retired People). I think you meant NARP (National Association of Railroad Passengers). http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php
grayfox1119 wrote: As we have all heard so very many times, those who refuse to learn from history, will surely be doomed by it. Case in point, the Railroads were king of the hill in moving freight and people back in 19th and early 20th century.
As we have all heard so very many times, those who refuse to learn from history, will surely be doomed by it. Case in point, the Railroads were king of the hill in moving freight and people back in 19th and early 20th century.
A year or so ago there was a short article in Railway age in which the author was talking about how when all things were considered passenger service really wasn't profitable and probably never was.
The interesting thing was it was in was the "100 Years Ago" column and the article was originally written in 1905. So maybe the lesson we have failed to learn from history is that hauling people by rail isn't economical.
Railroads were "king of the hill" prior to ICC (1887 I think but I'd have to check that) and regulations that followed.
US railroads had best passenger service in the world circa 1950. However, politicians payed too much attention to highway lobby. Uncle Sam spent big bucks on highways and on airports. With all that competition railroads could not increease fares to match cost inflation rates. Red ink began to flow. Uncle Sam took away mail contracts giving them to highways and airways. Much more red ink flowed. Railroads could not make money with passenger biz under those circumstances. Trains were discontinued. Service suffered. Trains were not kept clean. Passengers left railroads for other modes. Much, much more red ink for rail passenger biz.
Amtrak was created by Congress with a mandate to be financially self sufficient. Fat chance! Highways lose money. Airports lose money. Highways and airports get more than 100 times Amtrak funding, decade after decade.
Amtrak can not be financially self sufficient. Congressmen need to use their noggins.
Uncle Sam's transport policies have created our addiction to oil.
Interestingly, the Big Three auto makers who advocated federal spending on highways have lost half their market share to foreign automakers.
Don't confuse unprofitable with uneconomical. They're not identical concepts. A public library is an extremely economical way of getting books to people (who then return them with they're through). Nobody in their right mind would try to make a library a profit center.
BTW, the airline industry as a whole has been unprofitable since its inception. http://faculty.dwc.edu/karlsson/AM410/Papers/F2005MoreauFinal.pdf Whether or not it's an uneconomical form of transport is a different question entirely. Naturally, we won't mention the fact that the whole infrastructure of commercial aviation is paid for by the taxpayer.
Intercity buses? Most of that cost of that infrastructure is paid for by other than the bus companies. Can you imagine Greyhound if it had to pay to build and maintain its routes, even if it split the cost with trucking companies?
And the automobile? Now there's an an uneconomical mode of transportation if there ever was one. Especially if there's only one person in each vehicle. I'll grant you it's a convenient form of transport, but it's hardly economical since most automobiles spend the overwhelming majority of their lives parked somewhere (even my 5 year old Odyssey, which has over 115,000 miles on the odometer).
vsmith wrote:Yep, if it wasnt for the French, their Army and their Navy, we'de still be saying things like "Sorry old chap! Thats just bollacks" Drinking our beer warm and have bad dental hygene.
Ahhh ... I knew there was a reason I didn't like the French ... God Save the Queen!
'Scuse me squire, there's nothing wrong with my dental hygiene. And if you call your weak ice cold B*d or C**rs "beer" you are sadly mistaken.
And now on a slightly more serious note ...
... Yes of course this was a publicity stunt - don't notice too many Americans doing those at all? In the high tech engineering for the record attempt anyone consider that their engineers might just be testing out the technology of the future? The TGV runs across several European countries at 320km/h (that's about 198mph for the metrically challenged) at the moment, who's to say it won't go faster in service in the future?
I think the other thing that is forgotten in the US is that France (and most of the EU for that matter) are social democracies far, far out to the left of the political spectrum from the US - and Britain for that matter although we are heading that way - I'll get off my now.
This means they have BIG government. If you are paying 50% income tax then you expect the public services to work properly. France and Germany have invested heavily in their public owned rail networks consistently for 50 years or more - which is why its cheap and such a pleasant experience to travel by rail in continental Europe.
To answer the poster's original question; no I won't be modelling it, not because of any sense of misplaced politcal jingoism, it sure looked great whizzing through the French countryside - but there's just a chance that the German equivalent (ICE) may turn up on my N scale layout - but not going quite that fast!
andrechapelon wrote: Don't confuse unprofitable with uneconomical. They're not identical concepts.
Don't confuse unprofitable with uneconomical. They're not identical concepts.
True but the comments were pointed at railroads, which are private commercial concerns, who certainly don't confuse unprofitable with uneconomical. They are in it for profits. Passenger service doesn't generate them.
Now if you want to acknowledge that passenger service will not pay for itself but, for environmental or capacity or whatever reasons, is important for the government or another entity NOT interested in generating profits to provide passenger service, go for the gusto. But people who think that a modern freight railroad will be able to operate high speed passenger operation on the same right of way is living in a fantasy world.