Modeling some abandoned track?

[Dave-the-Train]

AAAARGH!

 Maintenance depends on -

• original materials
• replacement materials
• revenue
• weight of traffic
• line speed
• density/frequency of traffic
• policy decisions
• statutory requirements
• compensation claims / risk
• labour costs
• plant costs
• environment
• drainage or lack of
• local soil... may wash in or wash out from under.
• plus...

 Unless you are modelling a specific time and/or place you need to figure out what sort of recent history you want your line to have had ... and where the Board think/hope they are going.  This will depend on era and location.  Sometime things like Nuclear power plants and/or military bases throw an element into the equation.  Also some states have intervened to keep RR active and maintained.  This is down to your preferance and research.

I posted on the old forum about track maintenance - if you can dig it up you might post the links -

Maintenace-

• periodic examination - from daily to whenever
• scratch and sniff
• tighten and adjust - drive in loose spikes and tighten fishplate bolts
• replace ties
• "fettle" ballast - make sure that it is draining and where it should be.
• replace rail(s)
• turn rails on curves
• draw back rails and re-set spaces at joints - this happens more at the foot of heavy grades where train braking shoves the rail down hill over time but also because of movement cause by rail heating or cooling in summer/winter.  If gaps are not maintained rail can kick out sideways - which will derail a train.
• lift and line (i.e. get it level and pointing where it should)
• hand tamp ballast - locally or as part of lifting and lining
• machine tamp... can be satnav guided these days.
• top up ballast
• work in top-up ballast
• clean ballast - mostly by machine now
• renew ballast - pull out old and replace
• renew ties - individually or in strips
• renew rail - in lengths or over distance
• renew track - may include all 3 main elements
• deep dig - strip out everythng down to bedrock or fill formation and start with some sort of fibre mat these days... then build up in layers as specified by the engineers for the location (don't tip the stone in in the wrong order you'll only have to pull it all back out again... This will often include new drains.  Almost last will be new track on top... panels later switched to ribbon rail.  Hope the job gets done on time

 ... and everyday train crews will report lumps and bumps and other bad oatches that need looking at.  There are also ultrasonic testing trains that find weak spots in rail resulting in the length being replaced or a chunk of ribbon rail being cut out and a fresh bit welded in.

Does that answer your question?

[Anonymous]

Campbell makes ties, there maybe others. You could get stripwood the correct thickness and cut them to size, put them in a ziploc bag with india ink and some alcohhol, leave them for a day, let them dry and glue into stacks. New ties are almost black. mike h.

[shawnee]

This brings me to a related question...how often do railroad ties get replaced?  How often do tracks typically get re-ballasted?  I recall from my youth walking home along the railroad line, the ties, yes, there were bunches of them tossed to the side in small heaps. 

Are there any hobby manufacturers who make railroad ties alone, for scenic purposes? I guess I could take my old brass rail and rip off the rail itself, but the results might not be impressive. or I could fabricate them from plastic or wood.

[Anonymous]

Depending on the circumstance, some abandoned lines were still in good shape, but most saw less and less traffic, so maintenance went where traffic went. Branch lines see little if any maintenance, hence rotted ties. Dave's correct most ties rot in center of track from inside, but I've seen many ends rotted also. Most rail is dark brown or even black not rust colored from age, with lots of lose spikes.

 Most roads and scrappers take all the steel, including bridges, rails, tie plates, spikes, signal heads, masts, relay cabinets and some usable ties.  I have seen some bridges remain, mostly over highways. Then someone, probably a contractor takes remaining ties, and usually takes as much ballast as they can scrape up, leaving cinder base and some rotten ties. Most line poles are cut down and left to rot, some never get cut.

I've seen lines that were abandoned fifty years ago where track is still down with big trees growing through the ties.

NYC fan, nice WAG photos, my style of railroading. mike h

[Dave-the-Train]

I'd forgotten Godzilla

for rotted ties gouge out the centre of the tie along the length of the tie... when pulled out -ties are pulled out toward the fenceline usually...'cos that's where there's space... they can collapse inward or crumble if they are really bad.  This can leave odd dead ties at the side, a strip of evenly spaced dead ties (with shiney new ties in the track if it's a repair) or a stack of bits.  Not too much sense in replacing ties if the ballast isn't at least cleaned up/shaken up to improve drainage and solve/reduce the tie rotting issue.  New ballast as well is best... if bringing the track back to life will pay... just an odd car load may warrant getting the track back into some sort of order... it's all down to local history/demand...  Rotted ties don't burn well ('cos they tend to be soggy/mush) so, even if there has been a bonfire there are likely to be half burned/charred bits around the heart of the fire patch.  Of course these days you can't burn anything... a tie would not be good for a chipper.

PS A "financially challenged" road might pull the remaining good ties to use elsewhere and leave the bad ones... this would make decline look more rapid.

Old lighter/more worn rail might still be left in... or, if need be, the better bits might be purloined to make repairs elsewhere...  You can end up with ties and no rail next to rail with no ties or ny mix.

PPS You could have scrappers pulling rail or just track teams salvaging material for use elsewhere...

Abandoned track is often left in for two reasons.

1. it maintains the legal Right of Way (this is particularly why bridges get left across roads).

2. It costs more to haul the scrap out than it is worth.

Then again... preservation societies frequently get track for scrap or less than  scrap value if they haul it out themselves without causing any problems.  So that's another scenic possibility.

Steel/rail is generally high cost/low value scrap - and you can't hide it in the back of a panel van.  Any high value scrap, such as copper wire, is usually long gone...  Chunks of dry tes get used for fires to burn off the insulation leaving big scorched areas (about 10' across max)   the fire doesn't want to attract attention - if you're scrapping you don't want the neighbours complaining - if you're thieving you don't want anyone looking...

There may be a hole in any fence and signs of vehicles...

[shawnee]

Dave-the-train...no broken ties then.  Yeah, Godzilla hasn't been stomping around my layout.    Thanks... 

[Dave-the-Train]

Broken ties..?

What broke them?

The thing we need to recall is that a tie is a hefty chunk of timber...that most times has been treated with a preservative - at least most times in the last 50 years...

So it takes something heavy or strong to break it... unless it is already well rotted.

So; you won't usually find a lone busted tie unless it has been taken out and/or was already damaged... or has been deliberately ripped. 

Most times there will be a number of ties showing damage... probably where a car or loco has come off... BUT  this will tend to be crush damage by the flange more than the tread of the wheels... not least because - even in bad track - there tends to be a lot of support from the ballast/ground below --- unless, of course, that having washed out or subsided is what has caused the derailment... but someone should have been looking at what the car was rolling onto if the track is that bad.

Sometimes the spikes will pull - from a rotten tie/ties and let the road spread.

Rot in a tie usually shows as the inside eaten/flaked out... presumiably because the preservative is more concentrated in the outer shell - but then water got into the mddle some place... probably bugs or fungi got in too and started munching/digeting the tie from the inside out.  The exposed innards are often fibrous and a sort of syrupy colour.  A tie can look sound but give way under my foot... this is NOT fun in the dark.

Similarly ties in wet locations can have a green slime on the top of them... these can have black skid marks through the green where anyone or anything has skated across them... this too is not fun.

[shawnee]

Great info folks~! I guess I'm actually going to be modeling some disused track next to a mainline rather than an abandoned right of way, important distinction, thanks. The tracks will be virtually abandoned, but not pulled up.  I have tons of old brass track that's like 30 years old, can use that for the disused track, and that was a good idea too.  I'll break some ties, weather it, cover it with ground foam and the like. Maybe will beat up a brick factory model and make it an abandoned building off the spur. Thanks for all the photos...great guides!

These last photos - the WAG - is that an operational railroad?  If it is, the condition of that track is bizarre!  I would have thought there were laws or regulations of some kind that made you maintain track that you're going pull pull many hundred tons over.

[Newyorkcentralfan]

That's the thing about track, until and unless the rail is taken up, it can always be put back into service. There's a few railroads that look like they're abandoned but were actually still in operation.

 A case in point would be the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton. The WAG is known for being  one of those railroads where you can find more grass on the right-of-way than you'd find at a Greatful Dead concert.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is  one of my favorites. There's nothing like going trail-riding with your F-7. ;-)

 

 

[tgindy]

Wondering is anyone has tips or hints on how best to model an abandoned track line?  I want to model some track in disuse next to my mainline... has anyone done this, what happend in the prototype in these situations, and what looks realistic?  Do they just have ties, or the rails and ties overgrown? 

Hoping for some direction here, and thanks~!

QUERY:  How about grassed-over roadbed-only at ABANDONED TUNNELS?  

Here is the prototype on the old Pennsy mainline (now N&W) at Gallitzin's Tunnel Hill to make room for modern engines and intermodal freight cars:

Main page with all pictures... 

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/gallitzin.html 

Before construction...

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cr6085.jpg 

During construction... 

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_cr6664a.jpg 

After construction running Pennsy E-8 railfanning... 

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr5711a.jpg 

After construction running freight on both tracks... 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=28183 

Did you notice that no track is even necessary because of the impact of the old tunnel portal for what became a lack of visible abandoned trackage? 

P.S.:  This has become a really good reference thread. 

[Don Gibson]

Phase 1. seldom used: great place to use brass track.

Phase2.Unused and ignored -grass and weeds,

Phase 3. Rails removed for scrap - ties left to rot

Phase 4. raised  roadbed only left / some gravel  patchesstill visable, concrete culverts still standing, wood items rotted or gone including telegraph poles.

[ac4400fan]

Here's One i Ran Across awhile back in Northern AZ

Carl..  This Is FUN!

[JPowell]

Terrific link

Has anyone got any pics of abandoned tracks parrelel to track still in use please/  As in double reduced to single, treble to double or a yard track overgrown next to a well kept main track?  PLEASE? TIA

Yep I do...look at my last post...the last 3 photos, are of a section that is not in use anymore, but still connected to the Mainlines next to it.

JP

[JPowell]

Here are some in the Syracuse NY area....

The rails in the above photo, went in between the 2 buildings in the photo below...

The rail in this next photo is not in use anymore, but you can see in the distance that it's still connected to the Mainlines..... (look at teh 1st photo - in the distance under the signals)

Same as the 2 above, but this is what it looks like at my feet!

Hope these help!

JP

 

[D&RGWRR476]

Those are great photos but also a tinge of sadness goes thru me to look at them.

[WCfan]

Here's a link that tells you how to model abandoned track.

http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/clinic_33.htm

[WCfan]

Terrific link

Has anyone got any pics of abandoned tracks parrelel to track still in use please/  As in double reduced to single, treble to double or a yard track overgrown next to a well kept main track?  PLEASE? TIA

I don't have a pic of it but the Down town yard had somthing like that. Still does but the balast is only there now. Down below are some links of what you where describing.

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/phd/PHD362/DT07002.JPG

http://members.fortunecity.com/railtrails/VT/MW/KK-0000084.jpg

http://blogs.bootsnall.com/Moe/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/Europe%202006%20042.jpg

http://home.frognet.net/~mcfadden/wd8rif/img/jt6.jpg

http://home.frognet.net/~mcfadden/wd8rif/img/jt5.jpg

 

[Dave-the-Train]

Terrific link

Has anyone got any pics of abandoned tracks parrelel to track still in use please/  As in double reduced to single, treble to double or a yard track overgrown next to a well kept main track?  PLEASE? TIA

[Turd_Ferguson]

I've often used this site for reference on industrial areas and abandonned right of way:

 

www.oldnyc.com/bushwick/contents/bushwick.html

Just be carfeful.  I got lost there for hours one day.

Cheers,

G.

[nfmisso]

In addition to the excellent information above:

• This is a place to use that old brass track - get the weeds up so that rails look smaller.
• Abondon rails are often lighter than the rails kept in service, thus in HO, you may want to look for some code 55 or something smaller than your in service rails.

[WCfan]

We have some abonded track in Wausau down by the Kelly. I've never modeled any abonded track, but the track at the kelly is all grown over with weads and most of the balast is washed out. At grade crossing you may want to keep the track there. At industries make it look like the track once when't there. It's all personal perferance.

[Ibflattop]

There are some good examples here as of now. I can tell ya that I have see everything from just roadbed that is used for 4 wheeling now. To down on the old cloverleaf line of the NKP just west of Van Buren Indiana. The track is out of service and its got Medium size trees coming up thru the ties. I would like to see the Wabash Central bring the line back up all the way to Marion Indiana. But thats a Fat chance in Hell!     Kevin

[fiatfan]

Here are a few pictures taken in Sioux Falls, SD, a while back.

Tom 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Here's track that, while not abandoned, is in serious neglect.

 

[jecorbett]

Just the ties leading off the mainline giving the appearance that a turnout used to be there is a nice touch. Generally the rail will be pulled up. Ties imbedded in the ground with little or no ballast left. Weeds growing up all over. If you can add an abandoned structure to an abandoned spur, it can create a real interesting scene.

[Dave-the-Train]

There was a thread on this with good links just recently... but i can't find it

You want sapplings and brambles for  start.  then you can have ballast with everything ripped out - or ties left in - or rail left in as well... all heavily weathered and rusted.

Have fun

[ac4400fan]

Molding This Type Of Seen i thought was alot of fun! Here is what i did awhile back

Click to Enlarge

Then weather it all

Hope this helps you along Good Luck!

Carl.

[loathar]

Rust on top of the rails as well as sides from lack of traffic. Lots of over grown weeds and trash. Maybe even an abandond factory that the unused track used to service.

[colvinbackshop]

I've seen abandoned track (or at the very least track that is no longer in use) ranging from nothing but roadbed, to rail on ties and a lot of weeds (even trees), to washed out roadbed with ties still hanging on the rail...

I have modeled one that is abandoned, but still sees an occasional car or caboose. It's my programming track too.    

 

Feel free to take it to what ever level of disrepair you wish! There's a prototype out there somewhere.

[BRVRR]

el-capitan,

The programming track on the BRVRR is an 'abandoned' length of track. At least that is what I envisioned it as being.

I just filled in the area between the rails with fine ground cover and ballast to hide the ties. The area outside the rails is also covered with ground cover, some tall weeds and a few shrubs. I don't know if that is what you have in mind, but you can see photos of my 'abandoned' track on my website. Link is in my signature.