Train show critique

[dwhitetop2]

Hello all, went to the Western N. C. train show this weekend, my first, I really enjoyed the experience, but most of the products seemed to be way over priced. I did get some great deals on some rolling stock and a couple of structures. The engines and etc. were at times more than new. Has anyone else had the same experience or was this other than the norm.  The layouts from the club members were great.      Thanks Dave

[Metro Red Line]

Hello all, went to the Western N. C. train show this weekend, my first, I really enjoyed the experience, but most of the products seemed to be way over priced. I did get some great deals on some rolling stock and a couple of structures. The engines and etc. were at times more than new. Has anyone else had the same experience or was this other than the norm.  The layouts from the club members were great.      Thanks Dave

 

I think that's the case all over the country. I just went to a RR swap meet here in Southern CA this morning and one of the vendors there was the same guy selling his overpriced used rolling stock at the same two swapmeets I attended last month. And you know what? The same cars were still there!

If they overprice, their loss, no one will buy from them and they don't make money. Simple as that. The last show I went to, I priced my items generously and sold half my HO scale collection. Made a good amount of money (a good fraction of it went to buying N scale items at the same show :)). I'm sure more than Mr. Overpriced there!

I'm able to find at least a few deals at train shows ( model N scale)...I usually buy my rolling stock there (can't beat $4-$8 for a boxcar!) and hoarde almost every Intermodal container I see. :)

[galaxy]

Hello all, went to the Western N. C. train show this weekend, my first, I really enjoyed the experience, but most of the products seemed to be way over priced. I did get some great deals on some rolling stock and a couple of structures. The engines and etc. were at times more than new. Has anyone else had the same experience or was this other than the norm.  The layouts from the club members were great.      Thanks Dave

I have just returned to the hobby. I started up with my Nscale again, but also decided to "grow" some HO. So I look at both. 

I have been to several shows in different areas and states of the northeast by different promoters..

This seems to be the norms:

1)Hobby shops show up and want full retail or MSRP if they can get it. Some will have a "show sale"...x% off the MSRP. (big deal). Or better yet, x% of full retail.(now we may have a decent price for it)Generally not bargains. With a percent-off sale,it takes the bargaining out of it., they think they are already giving you a bargain.

2) If the hobby shop has some good prices on something, it is stuff they've had and couldn't sell. I may be perfectly fine, or most likely a little shopworn. New, but the box is crushed (not to hurt the product, but...) or it has that "natural weathering" look (aka dust).The manufacturers dont make it anymore.

3) dealers in used stuff fall into two categories: Collectibles and "other". I'm not a collector, not interested so I by-pass those tables, and dont pretend to know anything about that. Brass is certainly expensive.

As for the "others" They have either decided to sell off their old stuff or they have bought other layouts to resell. They, too, want a nice price for their stuff. If a new car goes for $15-19, or  even $25-30 in some cases now, then theirs should go for at $10.-15, and $20-25 now. Right? Used. Well used. with old equipment on it. Some detailed, some generic. Why not? I laughed when I saw a guy wanted $25.00 for and old F-something that had rubberband drive! I had only heard of them, never saw and would never go near it. It also had a bad paint job that was banged up....maybe it too many meetings with the floor. I might have paid $5 for just to get the shell. But it was a generic shell and not highly detailed. Maybe I'd only pay $2-3. I bought two NEW Bachmann Fs (generic) for $12 each wholesale a short time ago. They, too, will advertise some %off for the show to eliminate haggling.

4) There do seem to be people who have new stuff that may be oh, 10-15-20 yrs old. Not shop worn. Maybe they had a shop that closed, maybe this is what they do. They buy stuff now, with the idea in 5-10 years they can get full price cuz it will seem a bargain, or there will be those modelers looking for that particular stuff as it isn't made anymore.

It all comes down to this: If you want it, you will buy it. They know that. If you won't pay the price they want, move on.

Have fun!

 

[floridaflyer]

Have to agree that rolling stock is where the values are. Went to shows in Lake Wales and Bradenton FL. in the last few weeks. picked up 24 RDG, LV and PRR transition era cars for about $4.50 apiece with Kds. a lot of the new stuff was no bargan. One guy wanted $15.00 for a boxcar that I got for $5.00 about 50 feet further down the aisle. Some guys want to move stock others want top dollar. I know where I go.

[dwhitetop2]

Thanks for the replys to train shows I thought these prices were way out of line. Learned to look all around first then go back to the best price tables.        Dave

[Ibflattop]

It is like that all over the country! You just have to watch your prices!    Kevin

[IRONROOSTER]

My experience has been that prices will range from 50% off to a premium for out of production items.  A lot is list price, but I have found some good bargains.  That's for new items.  For used items be sure to inspect carefully - I've been burned on this, but prices can be very good to very high depending on the collector demand. 

I always enjoy the layouts on display. If I don't find anything to buy (rare, but has happened) that's okay I had fun looking. 

Enjoy

Paul 

[Chuck Geiger]

From attending shows last year selling of Ho to enter N, here's my two cents. Everyone is right, the same people are selling the same over prices material. One guy had these nice flatcars with loads priced at 34.00. There was a guy from Columbus years ago that sold the same thing for 12.00 at shows. BARGAINS: Clubs thinning our stuff, guys getting out of the hobby and sellers that have much they are selling cheap. That's what I look for. For 25.00 I have all the structures I need for my new N scale layout from the SIMI VALLEY club show last winter. I loaded up a box and said will you take 25! - I know I sold 3/4 of my stuff way under price and these "collectors" bought it and raised the price and are probably selling my HO stuff all over the Southwest.

[Chuck Geiger]

Metro Red Line are you the Belmont N Scale guy I met at Simi?

[grayfox1119]

I just got back from a MRR show today, and there are some good buys out there, but you have to know your prices, and, you have to walk around first to check every table before placing your bucks on the table.

New stuff is easy because you know the prices from catalogs and LHS, so you can easily see if new Atlas cars are selling for say $21.50, and you see them at the show for $15, you have a good deal.

USED equipment is much harder. You really have to know the quality when built, the condition NOW, and what the market is commanding for a price for that item. For instance, I was very tempted to purchase an F3 made by Bowzer, it was selling for $60, but I did not have enough knowledge to make a decision on this item.

Let the buyer beware !

[Wdlgln005]

I suspect prices at rain shows have risen. Dealers may have to pay higher table fees. Not sure how closely the taxman watches for his take. AFAIK, there are 2 types of train shows.

1) GATS-WGH type shows in fancy downtown convention halls. Pay $ to park. Pay $ to get in. There may be a 2day deal if you decide to go back. Support depends on how much space the local clubs get to display their modules.  Dealers come from the region, as gas is just too expensive, but a bit better now ($2.25/gal) Some dealers may have loss leaders. Can be good place to find dealers you can call after the sale.

2) Local NMRA or charity show. Most dealers from the state. Tables for the guy changing scales or old stuff. Can be good kitbash material if you have sharp eyes. Can be a good way to find the hobby shops in your area.

The cut rate guy working a 2nd job from the basement may be gone. Too much work for no money. MFR's may prefer to deal with a brick & mortar store.  

[BRAKIE]

Thanks for the replys to train shows I thought these prices were way out of line. Learned to look all around first then go back to the best price tables.        Dave

Dave,You gotta look around and remember to look UNDER the front of the dealers tables.You see a lot of the better buys will be found there while the high dollar items is in the "spot" light.

[Soo Line fan]

Good advice about going around before buying, knowing your prices and looking underneath the layout.

I don't know how many of you use TurboTax or similar tax software but it is pretty easy for folk's nowadays to do their own taxes. They could (or should) be using the table fees, transportation costs, lodging, food and even computer equipment as tax write-offs. The sales would be a different matter of course. Under table (cash) transactions helps the bottom line.

This might explain the high prices that many of the vendors today have decided to ask. Perhaps the cost of doing these shows is not as great as we think.

Jim

[jackn2mpu]

Trains shows are like hamfests - you have to know your prices and you have to know your equipment. Believe me, dealers can spot a newbie a couple of rows or tabels away. At shows with a lot of people dealers tend to be too busy to answer a whole lot of rookie-type questions.

Dealers also need to not over-price their wares. Like someone mentioned in an earlier post, for a long while now I've seen the same few people with the same radio equipment that they've had for sale (?) for, at elast in one case, 10+ years!

Also, show promoters need to be reputable. There was a show that Communipaw Commeratives used to run out of the old train station at Liberty Park (right across from where the World Trade Center used to stand) that went away because of promoter shenanigans. When it first started, there was both train and car (full-size) areas, and there was once a steam whistle demonstration. Then the cars went away after a couple of years. Then no more outdoor G Scale layout. Then it was confined to indoors and that was full.And in the latter years even that dwindled to less than half the dealers they used to have. Now, show no more.

OT PS - Who can I contact to add a feature to the software running this board to add a most useful feature known as a spell checker? I know I can supposedly do a copy and paste from Word, but those of us who use Firefox instead of IE can't do that. And I'm on a Mac (PC users welcome as well). tnx 

[loathar]

I find the opposite about swap meets and yard sales where I live. People don't know what they have or what it's worth. It's just junk that they cleaned out of a dead relatives attic. If it doesn't catch a catfish (yuck!) or kill a deer, people around here could care less. I could have had $600 worth of N stuff for $35 at one meet. Another guy would have taken $20 for a box full of old metal Lionel trains.4 steam locos, cars and a bunch of track and accessories. Probably at least $1000 worth. I always stumble across this stuff when I'm broke.

[Anonymous]

The trick to a successful train visit is do your home work. Make a list of stuff you're looking for, cars, locos, buildings, etc, then keep a price range by the items. As model makers have down sized their output of models, many guys upped their prices trying to cash in on less product available. I remember eight years ago, every dealer had cartons full of blueboxes and other kits. I've seen dealers sellimg used Atlas covered hoppers for $15 and a shop owner across the room, selling the same cars, brand new for $10.

You have to look around, some times there's a good find hidden in there, I found a silver streak mechanical reefer kit recently.

 Brakie's dead one about under table stuff, I found several used buildings in fair shape for a buck a piece.

 Like someone else said"let the buyer beware"

 mike h.

[Anonymous]

I was at Madtown RR and have the same experiance, also lot of the same vendors year to year

the lazer buildings where expensive even with the %off, but like everyoneelse is saying pay or move on. I did find some things you can buy online so i choose to pay now and get it now.

[twhite]

I only go once a year, out here at the Roseville Fair Grounds in November.  Usually find some good buys--especially on rolling stock.  And I often see models or kits going at prices that makes me wonder "Are you for REAL?" 

So, generally speaking, I think train shows are somewhat of a crap-shoot.  Two years ago, I picked up a brass SP MT-3 for a really BARGAIN price, but that's not going to happen all of the time--in fact, very seldom.  And this year, I saw the same Rio Grande L-131 brass 2-8-8-2 that I've seen for the past four years.  Price actually went UP!  Someday the guy's going to realize it, lower the price and I'm going to jump on him like a mountain lion on a deer.  Yah, sure, LOL! 

But I generally have a good time, even if I only come back with a boxcar or a reefer kit.  And I learn a lot at the clinics. 

So, I suppose it's how you approach the show in the first place.  Just go to have a good time and see if you get surprised by a bargain or two.

Tom

[StillGrande]

Train shows are more and more like buying on eBay.  You have to do your research and know what you are looking at, what it goes for, and what you are willing to pay and stick to that.  I have gotten so bad as to making a list before I go with prices from the Walthers catalog and eBay going rates.  I also see what I can see on the first pass, and usually don't buy then unless the deal is obvious.  Write down the price and where you saw it.  This works great with decals especially.  I've had prices range from $1 to $6.50 on the same set of unopened decals.  Ranges on buildings too.  Most of the time dealers have more than one of the item, so you probably won't loose it.  Be sure to check both items if they have more than one.  Some don't bother to change prices and you can find ones on the same table for less. 

I have had mixed results at estate sales.  I like these over yard sales as it is usually stuff the person still wanted (as opposed to getting rid of for one reason or another).  Some of the companies must go look up the price on new items and stick them on.  Others just want to move the stuff out.  I lucked into a bunch of steamers, still in boxes, including some mint Varneys, at an estate sale. 

[Bill54]

I went to the train show in Upper Marlboro, MD Saturday looking for some rolling stock.  As others have said you need to take a walk through first then go back where you saw the better prices. 

All in all prices have gone up since last year.  Last year I found a lot of rolling stock under $5.  This year most of the prices are $8. for similar stuff.

Bill

[JohnT14808]

I and two others from our OMRS club in Olympia, WA went down to Portland, OR for a WGH swap meet and show at the Expo Center on Feb 17th.  Pretty high prices but LOTS of stuff. Good layouts and demos and a HUGE building just crammed with stuff. Checked out everything, complained to the Walthers rep about no American military stuff in the catalog, scoped out several backdrop ideas from www.SceniKing.com (thought they were overpriced...) and ended up not buying a thing. Spent more money on lunch than inside the show.

Too expensive. Too new. In March, the local Lion's Club has their Annual RR Swap Meet and while this is a truely "dinky" show compared to the Portland one, I'll bet I will find some of those hidden values mentioned in earlier posts.  At this meet, it is mostly small change vendors, but many more local train buffs with items to sell.  The price is usually negotiable, and that's part of the fun of model railroading.

[Metro Red Line]

Metro Red Line are you the Belmont N Scale guy I met at Simi?

 

No I haven't been to the Simi Valley show. I have been to the Anaheim and Bakersfield shows, went to the Riverside swap meet last weekend and will sell (and buy) at the Perris swap meet this coming Saturday.

I'm not a member of any clubs at the moment. 

[rrebell]

I only go once a year, out here at the Roseville Fair Grounds in November.  Usually find some good buys--especially on rolling stock.  And I often see models or kits going at prices that makes me wonder "Are you for REAL?" 

So, generally speaking, I think train shows are somewhat of a crap-shoot.  Two years ago, I picked up a brass SP MT-3 for a really BARGAIN price, but that's not going to happen all of the time--in fact, very seldom.  And this year, I saw the same Rio Grande L-131 brass 2-8-8-2 that I've seen for the past four years.  Price actually went UP!  Someday the guy's going to realize it, lower the price and I'm going to jump on him like a mountain lion on a deer.  Yah, sure, LOL! 

But I generally have a good time, even if I only come back with a boxcar or a reefer kit.  And I learn a lot at the clinics. 

So, I suppose it's how you approach the show in the first place.  Just go to have a good time and see if you get surprised by a bargain or two.

Tom

nice show, buddy likes it, you gotto go to just trains swap meet in concord, call them for a date, have always found bargins there, kadee #5 at 5 cent each, shinohara turnouts for three ect.