Is this hobby getting expensive or what!?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by neilmunck

Would those guys in Compton be willing to work for $5 and a loaf of bread a week or whatever those guys in china are being paid?

It seems to me that the free market capitalism that the west and the WTO is pushing on everyone is kicking us in the baws and it serves us right too!

if we don't like the rules then we should've made the game fair. Lets be clear - it was us and through us, our governments that made this up so we could take advantage of other, smaller countries.

neil

Yes, that's part of the picture, and I'm sure I don't have it all. If you buy items made with cheap labor you are in effect taking advantage of them. So we started purchasing items at low prices and felt smug with our voluntary enslaving of them to make items cheaper for us so we could have more. This goes on a few years and slowly companies move there to take advantage of low wages. Slowly the profit in the other country builds up and we loose our industrial base. Pretty soon we are at econmic war and the other country has raised their prices and start buying what's left of our industries. Then our standard of living goes down. Can't happen? It already did in the 1980's-90s with Japan. I remember when Japeneese products were considered junk like Chineese is/was now. Now we are getting a rerun with China. So them guys in Compton may be working for a loaf of bread and $500 a week soon, but the $500 will be worth $5 in 1960's dollars. FRED

[Anonymous]

Would those guys in Compton be willing to work for $5 and a loaf of bread a week or whatever those guys in china are being paid?

It seems to me that the free market capitalism that the west and the WTO is pushing on everyone is kicking us in the baws and it serves us right too!

if we don't like the rules then we should've made the game fair. Lets be clear - it was us and through us, our governments that made this up so we could take advantage of other, smaller countries.

neil

[Anonymous]

Canada's exchange is about .74 to the American Dollar. If I bought a $10- car in the states would cost about $13.00 in Canada. I could go into Canada for thier 10$ car and pay about $7.50 for it. Wonder why all our Seniors are buying meds across border.

I was looking over some MR's from the late 60's and see locomotives such as the AHM 2-8-8-2 Y6b for $90- If I am not mistaken wages were low in those days. Gasoline costs like .20 Milk .15, candy .05 A new car such as a Ford Mustang 3500- and a 4 bedroom house with basement about 23,000-

I never buy just released items with some very rare exceptions. I always wait out prices for a year or more. I recall the Allegheny from riverossi was about $650- a year and half ago and now costs half that. One of the reasons I have not bought one is that there are persistent complaints via the forums about the engine.

Ready to run to me is a bit expensive. Intermountains' Reefers for the PFE were very expensive but I bought several because it was nice to have. At the recent train show I did not see a single current intermountain reefer for sale. I suspect that item will multiply 5-10 times in value in 20 years.

I recall a o scale Blue Comet set, in the early 90's there were so many of those that the cars sold for 30- each and the locomotive at 350. Recently I saw a complete set for about 1600- Amazing.

Good Luck on your purchases, consider what your roster needs are and carefully select what you want. It is a Canon of railroading that there are items to be bought that are pricey but are desired.

Good Luck.

Lee

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide



The shame of it all is that Athearn is located in Compton - I'm very familiar with that area and spend time helping out with one of the local high schools. Many people are out of work in Compton, Watts, South Central LA. Those folks could use the jobs that Athearn is sending to China!

It's not just in LA. The west had been in an economic war with the "third world" for many years. When you buy Chineese products you are supporting unemployment for us and funding the development of weapons of war for China. That's my opinion and I also realize there is nothing I can really do about it because most consumer items I want like TV, computers, and trains come from China and/or their components come from China. One of the reasons I always purchased blue box was I knew they were made in usa. But Athearns in there graet wisdom have decided to farm them out too. If we all loose our jobs who will the companies sell too? FRED

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

I'm going to be real politically incorrect now and say the high price of RTR may be because they gave the Chineese Communist slaves a raise to 3 cents a day. If they paid them poor people a low wage in line with what we paid McDonalds or grocery sackers that $18 car would be $50. Of course that a painful subject that we need to ignore so we can feel good. FRED

The shame of it all is that Athearn is located in Compton - I'm very familiar with that area and spend time helping out with one of the local high schools. Many people are out of work in Compton, Watts, South Central LA. Those folks could use the jobs that Athearn is sending to China!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce



The best way to stay in (for those of us who are not rich) is to learn modeling skills - like scratchbuilding with everyday material that cost pennies on the dollar, or how to detail cheaper cars so they look (and run) like their higher priced cousins.

THAT'S RIGHT!!! In fact the mean nasty me will say that just because you can afford to put RTR on a prebuilt benchwork frame, put down some easy track and decorate with groundfoam and premade trees don't make you a Model Railroader no more than buying a new Harley Chopper makes you a Hell's Angel. OUCH, I was kind of mean? I'm sorry if I offended anyone. MEAN FRED

[Anonymous]

This is true. Comparatively to other popular hpbbies like Radio Controled models MRRing is definitey still cheaper.

When I was in the Navy I did RC Boats and a basic RTR boat ran me 300 dollars and that didnt include fuel or any of the things used to start the silly thing. By the time you included the DC starting Motor and the glow plug heater you already had a good 30 or 40 bucks more in to hobby.

Then thier was the motors that would run you a hundred dollars a pop ads well as the other parts. I must have spent a good 1500 a year on that hobby. Now I wish I had done trains instead.

[MAbruce]

I agree that this hobby has been expensive for a while now - and continues to get worse. As long as enough people are willing to pay the higher prices, they will continue to go up. I figure that this hobby has a high concentration of rich people that don't care how much they spend on anything.

The best way to stay in (for those of us who are not rich) is to learn modeling skills - like scratchbuilding with everyday material that cost pennies on the dollar, or how to detail cheaper cars so they look (and run) like their higher priced cousins.

[Anonymous]

Not really. It's one of the cheapest from what I gather from observation. I see kids buying $2000 sound systems and $25,000 engines for their Hondas. I see men spending $25,000 for a new Harley, and $90 for a $35 Lifelike Harley Train set. I see RCers buy a $500 plane and crash it in the ground 1 week later. I seen a special on TLC or one of them channels about guys spending $10, 000 on a pumpkin chucker or mach 2 carbon fiber model rocket. I see old guys buying $125,000 RVs that get 6 mile per gallon at $1.50 so they can beat Holiday Inn out of $75 or Renyold's Developing out of a $600 a month condo. Naw, $18 for a box car isn't really out of line is it? Of course you don't even have to spend that. You can get boxcar kits for under $5 and scratch build buildings out of cornflake boxes. I'm going to be real politically incorrect now and say the high price of RTR may be because they gave the Chineese Communist slaves a raise to 3 cents a day. If they paid them poor people a low wage in line with what we paid McDonalds or grocery sackers that $18 car would be $50. Of course that a painful subject that we need to ignore so we can feel good. FRED

[Anonymous]

I think the problem has more to do with cost of living and reduced disposable income.
I don't necessarily disagree that the hobby has always been relatively expensive...I remember buying a used car in 1963 for less than a brass Akane articulated would have cost me....( I really wanted that B & O EM-1 though...), but I digress.
I don't believe one single word of the US or Cdn governments' endless nonsense about the supposed "cost-of-living-index". The cost goes up beyond what they claim, and always has.
They leave out many of the key things which make up our cost of living...especially TAXES.
I do remember from 1959-1963, when I made about $1.00 an hour in various jobs, my take home pay for 44 hours a week averaged about $41.50 a week !
Only $2.50 a week was withholding taxes !
So less than 6% was tax.
I could buy at least a couple of Athearn $2.00 cars a month then.

How about personal transportation ? You could buy a DECENT used automobile , ( made of steel, not plastic), 8 or 10 years old, for $100 to $125 then...so three weeks' clear wage would get you that vehicle. Anyone in a blue collar job buying transportation for 3 weeks pay any more out there ?

In short, our incomes have less 'disposable' dollars in terms of percentage of take home pay, and that is why hobbies and pastimes of all kinds are less affordable.
regards
Mike

[sparkingbolt]

Stuff costs more, yes. But I think we're getting more for the extra. In the '70s, '80s (I'm old) If you wanted a smooth running accurately detailed, say, USRA Mikado, you'd buy a Mantua Loco, a Cary boiler, a ton of brass details, maybe a better motor, the paint... It could all add up costing more then than an Athearn Genesis mike now. Plus the time spent on it. And look at the variety now! Back then, the only Shays were brass.

And deisels? I just bought a Life Like Proto 2000 S1 from Train World for less than it would cost to buy the parts to upgrade and superdetail an Athearn to the degree the Proto's have, RTR. Then I bought another! I do like and have some new Athearns which are better too, BTW, than their earlier counterparts.

The Quality of track is better. The quality and variety of nice buildings is better. Power supplies are better. Li'l vehicles are better. And variety in general? Look how much thicker a Walthers Catalog is than a few years ago. Like some people above have said, watch the sales, closeouts, Mail order places, etc. When you factor in inflation and the quality of what we're getting (if you're careful - read the reveiws in MR), I hafta say, buck fer buck, theres never been a better time to be a model RRer, price notwithstanding.

(I buy Mail-order, but also support my local hobby shop appreciably) Dan

[Anonymous]

Let's see, Since I'm returning to the hobby after a long stint and all old stuff seems lost in the wind along the way (Note: Never leave things with relatives for storage), I'm going to Have to to basically rebuy everything to get going.

Costs for the first year:
1 Train consist: roughly $350 (passenger consist, $200 engine, +)
1 DCC system roughly $250 (midrange average w/power supply)
Track for large area roughly $250 (around 5x20' area)
Benchwork, roughly $300 (lumber, hardware, MDF board, Tools, ect)
Odd supplies, about $250

Total, around $1500, but thats for a relatively large area and a passenger train, cut cost bt half for a 4x8' area and a frieght layout, looking at roughly $750 to enter the hobby reasonably decent.

Now you could get away without the DCC and buy an el-cheapo boxed trainset for around $50-100, but soon find you'll have to spend more to just get the train to stop derailing all the time. Might as well buy a quality set right off the bat and save yourself the headache.

Hmm...maybe it's the lack of decent cheap sets that's detering the masses from joining the hobby. One person buys a cheap set for $80, 2 weeks later the thing's crapped out on him and he gives up on it. Now if that cheap set lasted, say 6 months to a year, he might actually decide he likes the hobby and seek out better stuff.

But no one is going to spend $750 to start a hobby that they're not sure they're going to stay with unless they're die-hards like us. Give them a decent starter set's and let them be eased into the hobby.

Jay.

[Hawks05]

ya. i wouldn't i'm broke by any means at my age its just that i want to save money for emergencies'i have probably $500 in savings right now at one bank. then in my checkbook i only have $87 but i'm putting another $100 in that tomorrow. then i have a gallon chug type thing filled with change. i started putting change in it well over 2 years ago and its finally full. i have to ca***hat in so i can make 2-3 car payments this month so i don't have to pay for awhile and will be able to save money for after christmas shows. also since i wanted to get into the hobby my parents won't help me pay for anything. except maybe a magazine thats about it. kind of sucks but hopefully i can sucker my dad into helping me that way he can help pay for stuff.

i sure hope a journalist makes a lot of money.

[dave9999]

Hawks, I feel your pain! I was a teenager once. I remember wanting to build a model railroad so bad.
And like you the money was tight, to say the least. I remember a sheet of plywood, an oval of
track and one Athearn loco. Now I'm in my mid thirties, make a better than average living, and am
just about 2 yrs into the hobby I waited so long for. Dont let $$ discourage you! Do what you can,have fun
and one day you will have the time and $$ . Dave

[Anonymous]

This is exactly the reason I often look into used rolling stock and locomotives at my local LHS.

I can often find Athearn and other good brands of rolling stock for about 2.50 a pop. They need a little TLC to get them back to spec but at least I am ot going bankrupt in the process.

I just purchased my first ever new Athearn Locomotive, A Chessie GP 30 that was priced at 37.50 for a bl;ue box. Did I actually give the man that amount? No I traded him a Model Power DDT switcher and a Tyco F7 Dummy for 20 dollars of the price of the new loco.

I find that in this hobby it is often better to look into used or closeout merchandise to save money. The LHS I deal with is mostly closeouts from other hobby shops in the area and I find a lot of older items that are no longer in production for about 40% off retail that way.

He currently has an MRC Command 2000 DCC system for 160 dollars that I am thinking about getting instead of a digitrax Zephyr that is brand new that he sells for 180. ALthough I may spring for the extra 20 to get the digitrax as it seems a bit more expandable.

My point is that if you don't set your sites on the latest and greatest and just enjoy your hobby you can often get by without spending a fortune on your trains. The current RTR stock is getting rediculous in price though. I will not pay 20 dollars for a RTR car ever. I would rather have a slightly less quality car and modifiy it a bit to suit my needs.

[Hawks05]

all the stuff i've bought so far has been fully put together already. i have one RTR CSX Boxcar i got for $5 at a show NEW. the rest i got for $5 as well and they were put together by someone else. hopefully after awhile and after i get everything i need like the benchwork done i'll be able to spend time on putting together kits and learning more about the hobby.

as a teenager it is hard getting started because if you are like me you have a job which takes time away from the hobby then you have school which is just like a adults job (8 hours a day 5 days a week) then you have a job after school for maybe 4-5 hours so by the time you get home its like 9:00 and you have homework and have to eat so you don't have time to "play" so to speak. also i have car payments i need to make so thats another $100 a month that comes out of the hobby. then since i have a used car i have to make minor, sometimes costly repairs. do you know getting a ignition key copy its $23.21. thats a outrage. anyways what i'm trying to say is if you a teenager and you have a job, and have to make payments for different things you won't have a lot of money to spend which will maybe turn you off from the hobby. since getting my car and my job i'm trying to make every dollar i spend worth it. and if possible maybe not get stuff i normally would have. also my parents are beginning to not buy me stuff they used to like CDs, and magazines.

i know next weekend i will most likely take maybe $100-$150 out savings to go to a show. i want to get as much as i can before Christmas so i don't have to spend a lot and then i can ask for different things at x-mas.

case in point. its really costly if you are a teenager and have other stuff to pay for. probably the same for adults but at least you are making more than $250 a month.

[dave9999]

Good point Jetrock, I think that the avaliabilty of so much RTR and easy build kits has,in a way,
detoured modelers from scratch building.I personaly would buy a kit and assemble it before I
wittled a station from a block of wood! But then again i also paint and weather my structures,so
I try to keep with the idea that modeling is more than gluing a kit together and setting next to the
track. Dave

[Jetrock]

I would contend that model railroading has NEVER been a cheap hobby. Sure, there was a time when you could buy a boxcar kit for a dollar, but that was when you could get a Coke for a nickel.

For those who dislike prototypical correctness, head out to a model railroad show--the one I went to featured a boatload of Z-grade Tyco trainset retreads with horn-hook couplers for a buck or two apiece. I'd also disagree heartily--a properly designed and labeled car costs about the same for plastic and machinery, and personally I don't find $8-15 an unfair price to spend for a spanking-new kit of what I'm looking for, if I can't find it at same train show for $5. And of course businesses will charge as much as customers are willing to spend--that's how you make money in business. And that is what they are doing, business--nobody makes model trains as a selfless public service.

If you really want to go cheap, do it the way the old-timers did it and start scratchbuilding out of cardboard and scrounged wood, raid your stapler's staples for scale grab-irons, etcetera. That's what Grandpa did when he didn't want to spend the outrageous sum of $1 on a boxcar he could build for a quarter's worth of parts.

And yes, it's true, HO and N are still pretty cheap by dint of availability--folks who model 1:20.3 and other outdoor scales pay more for one boxcar than I have laid out for my entire collection of rolling stock and motive power. I mean, you *can* spend a ton of money on this hobby, but nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to do so (well, maybe, perhaps your local hobby shop owner is more forceful than mine!)

[dave9999]

Not only is the price of MRR items increasing but building materials are as well. I am self employed in
construction, and lumber, plywood, foam insulation all have almost tripled in price.So benchwork
can cost a small fortune. I dont know about the rest of the country,but here in Florida I have had
to increase bids on jobs just to offset material cost. Also,during huricane season, plywood always
seems to skyrocket. Dave

[preceng]

I agree, the start up costs must help slow down newbees to this hobby. It is expensive, but so is everything I guess. I am fortunate (I guess) to have most of what I need, then I can spend what I can on the extras.

[Anonymous]

Yes everything is going up but salaries. My solution is to keep the layout small and focus on a few high quality items. Its more fun detailing than spending money on new equiptment.

[IRONROOSTER]

The problem is that every thing costs more. Golf is $30 at the cheap courses (Northern Virginia). That's my yardstick. I don't play golf anymore and I figure that between greens fees, balls etc I have $100+ to spend every month on trains. That's about what I spend on average. I agree the startup costs can really make you stop and think, but once you get beyond that initial cost it's easier to add a couple of cars here and a structure there. After a few years you have more stuff than you can use unless you have a huge layout. I'm currently in S scale and after ten years of accumulation I have more rolling stock (rtr and kits) than I can use all at once, but I still keep buying them, though not as many and I'm pickier about what I get.
Enjoy
Paul

[CP5415]

Tell me about it! [:(!][:(!][:(!]
$50 Canadian for an Athearn Genesis Boxcar! YIKES!!!!
I have one, but that'll be it!
$50 Canadian for a Walthers Passenger car!! DOUBLE YIKES!!!!!!
It seems to me that the manufacturers are indeed pricing the hobby out of the reach of most new comers. Especially the young ones. Yet we, the consumer, are to blame.
It doesn't help when the current rage of PROTOTYPICAL CORRECTNESS is, in my opinion, driving the prices up!
Sure there's still Like-Like, Bachman & Model Power sets to start people off but they're still $100 Canadian. Way too much to pay for such inferior products.
Then you have DCC. An amazing piece of technology. EXPENSIVE!
Yes, there has been many good things to come to this hobby in the last ten years, but in another 5, no one will be able to afford to get into the hobby. Will it be worth it then?
Kato, Atlas, Athearn, Life-Like (Proto) are all pricing themselves out of the range of people they need to help the hobby continue.
Until everyone in the hobby realizes that we need a good supply of in-expensive but decent quality locomotives & rolling stock that doesn't have every grab iron sticking off of every piece, the prices will continue to rise.
Sure my Genesis car looks great, my 5 Proto Newsprint cars look great as well, but so do my 100 Roundhouse & Athearn KITS.
WE are the reason why prices are going up. We cry Prototypical, we get prototypical.
We cry Ready-to-Roll, we get R-T-R.
ALL THIS COSTS MONEY TO THE MANUFACTURERS. Someone has to pay for it!!
Is spending $20 on a RTR car that we can get for $13 in a kit worth it? This is the same car that we've all agreed that we have to take apart to install a better quality coupler! WHY? Since when is building a kit from pieces taking 1/2 an hour or so worth the extra $7? When you still have to invest the same 1/2 hour to install the better quality couplers on the RTR car!!!

Just my 2 cents [:D]

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I agree that prices are way to high. I am looking into getting my custom paint/model rialroad design firm into manufacturing. Due to the economics of tooling steel, I am relegated to casting resin manufacturing. But I know the techniques that can produce an injection quality car kit for approxamatly in the 10-15 dollar range. And thats factory painted and ready to assemble. Keep in mind this is freight cars.

All this research leads me to beleave that the companies are charging high prices because they can and people will pay them. This has had the side effect that I do not buy much new stuff any more and when I do, its when the hobby shop has a sale. ($45.00 for a Proto SD60 at the last one!)

[Anonymous]

I've really searched for the HO railcars that fall into the up to 13 dollar range, and it seems a challenge. I find it hard to think a car is worth more than 10 dollars.

I've really struggled with engines too. I admit there is some great artwork out there but shelling out 100, 200 or more for a locomotive seems kind of loco to me.

I've basically stuck to some basic bachmann stuff and life like, as well as some model power entry level and roundhouse stuff. Some folks claim that the cheap trains are trash but you have to understand when you only have so much dough, you have to make do.

dcc, well I haven't ever even considered it. considering computer prices maybe in a few years it will be next to nothing but I figure dc isn't that bad when your careful to learn basic stuff and running just a couple of trains.

FOlks say in proportion to video games and such it all equates out, but I still agree with you that it seems like it is indeed an expensive hobby and I wish model companies could do a slightly less detialed version of their things at a more reasonable price.

[cp1057]

Costs for structures are steadily climbing, both builtup and kit form. Even some kits that have been around forever are getting pricey. Come on manufacturers, I'm sure you've recovered the tooling costs for kits that have been out for 20 years or even more.

I have a friend who is interested in building an N scale layout and is hesistating because of the cost of structures. Right there is a missed opportunity for the hobby to grow due to high prices.

I'm sure glad that most of my motive power was purchased 5-10 years ago when prices were more reasonable.

Charles
Hillsburgh Ontario

[bluepuma]

N scale and HO scale isn't too bad price wise, just as long as you don't buy too much stuff at once or have to pay $7 shipping for one item. I just check the large scale or O scale prices to put things in perspective, or a few Z scale items.

My feeling is that I started something I can't afford to feed. A far cry from buying a record a week, when that was about 1 hour of time out of 40.

I decided to keep my magazines down to one $40 subscription of MRR, but my wife missed Trains, so I bought it on the stands a few months. - Tom

[Anonymous]

I no longer put myself on a collision course to buy something. I won't pay MSP and will wait it out for the discount. I waited 10 months to buy the Allegheny.

[Anonymous]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. If your roster is about done and you are heavy into DCC and computer control it's actually getting cheaper.

Ken

[Hawks05]

ya just getting into this hobby is costing me a ton. so far i've spent probably $150 in 2 weeks. of course i did get everything i need but still i need to get more like locomotives and rolling stock. also i still need to build the bench work and all that. i've gotten 3 books though for probably $50 which sucks. but ya this hobby is expensive but i think it will pay off over the long haul.