Howdy pre-historic modelers,
This is a forum that address the needs of the folks that, by nature of the lack of anything related to our time period, are forced to scratch-bash, scrounge, modify, and re-motor just about everything we need.
There are group threads of modelers of the itty-bitty stuff. And threads for DCC and scenery. But for pre-historic modelers, there's just not much out there.
So here's a place to post your tips and tricks.
Structures If you look at eBay, you will find readily available, Kibri Old West buildings. They will be already built and probably poorly. However, they are salvageable.
I got these three for about $7 total, plus a couple bucks shipping.
Like this they are pretty cheesy. but the relief on them is pretty good. What I do is take artist acrylics--I prefer Liquidex in the squeeze bottles; the tubes are a little thick and have to be thinned--and paint them with at least three colors on wood. The colors are a mixture of grey, umber, burnt umber, burn sienna and taupe, mixed and varying in color dark to light. I first start with a dark greyish mix to fill in the cracks then with the lighter shades, dry-brush to highlight. This make take several applications.
I built a catwalk for these buildings, so I had the bases that I had torn off available. I used the base of this building to build the awning and used wood from popsicle sticks to make the posts.
Not all buildings are going to be raw or stained wood. Buildings like banks and other fancier buildings are going to be well-maintained false-fronts--like this store, who would obviously get paint wholesale.
But the backs of the buildings would be rougher.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I have a box full of those old Kibri kits. We used to have an Old West town on our family room holiday time only layout. Kept my AHM old-timers on sidings there - even as a kid I gues I recognized they didn't fit witht he era of the rest of my trains so I pretended it was an Old West theme park kind of thing, and ran the Reno, Genoa, and Bowker as excursion trains.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SpaceMouse wrote: Howdy pre-historic modelers,This is a forum that address the needs of the folks that, by nature of the lack of anything related to our time period, are forced to scratch-bash, scrounge, modify, and re-motor just about everything we need.
I ended up scratch building a 6 unit false front structure in my 1910 theme.
It, and the other buildings, are not glued down yet (just sitting on the ground).
Alan_B wrote:I ended up scratch building a 6 unit false front structure in my 1910 theme. It, and the other buildings, are not glued down yet (just sitting on the ground).
Nice. Any tips or tricks for us Alan?
SpaceMouse wrote: Alan_B wrote:I ended up scratch building a 6 unit false front structure in my 1910 theme. It, and the other buildings, are not glued down yet (just sitting on the ground).Nice. Any tips or tricks for us Alan?
Oops !
Keep it simple, where possible. Since most of us are modeling the "flavor" of a period, and have no access the what really was done, don't try to go overboard on detail unless it is forefront on the layout and a focus of attention.
SpaceMouse Cool find!
Alan Nice work!
underworld
I think the hardest part of Old West Modeling and other Pre-historic ages is finding figures. If you model the 1950's you have figures from all walks of life. Model Dodge City and your selections are poor. Bachman makes a set of 5 figures. I heard Prieser makes one, but I've not seen it. I've been able to find several different figures on the Internet that are usable, but the best I've found so far is Rustic Rails by Musket Minatures. They have old-time railroad figures and construction crews. Miners' loggers and cowboys farmers and town's folk. They also have wagons-- a great variety of wagons.
http://www.musketminiatures.com/
The "open wagon" and figure below is a Rustic Rails product.
Another source of vehicles is Jordan. I don't have a website for them. Jordan has a few good vehicles for the West, and a few, like three, for the period up to 1917--and one is a firetruck. In the picture below, the buckboard is a Jordan. The seated figure is one of the Bachmann 5, the one standing in the buckboard is a cheapy set farmer that comes 10 on sprue for a buck. I had to cut his arms off at the shoulders and rotate them to make it work. The guy in the back of the box is a camper from the Life Like package.
I'm hoping others will have additional sources of figures and vehicles.
For the most part, modelers of prehistoric times need to be creative. The Native American below is a Life Like camper wearing a sweat suit. I cut a piece of foil for a feather.
The blacksmith is a mason from a construction package.
Mongo is from an under-scale plastic Native American and the same farmer that is standing in the buckboard above. The "putty" is Liquid Nails, but if I were to do it again, I would use modeling clay. what I did worked, but it was a pain.
Looking for questions, hints and tips?
Resource websites?
You, of course, tatooed "Yes" and "No" on the steer's hindquarters?
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
great idea for a thread , thanks chip
nice modelling you guys , some day i'll have pictures to contribute . for now i'll pass along a helpful link for a product you can use for your model conversions .
http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99219999005&orignav=9
oddly , i couldn't find it on the US website , but i'm sure you can find it at most stores selling games workshop products . there are also other manufacturers of similar products (and probably less expensive!)
Thanks ereimer,
The liquid nails was my wife's idea. It was a spur-of-the-moment, "I can do this," type thing. If I were to do it again with clay, I could get Alex Karas's shape a lot better.
Look forward to more of your posts here.
Resource websites -
For Yahoo Groups, try EarlyRail - they cover up through WWI (1917, for Americans).
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EarlyRail/
As far as vendors for period stuff (I model 1890-1915), here are some that I have bookmarked (haven't bought from all of them, though)
http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/default.html Lots of pre-WWI-era cars
http://www.btsrr.com/ War Between the States-series cars are nice kits
http://www.blackbearcc.com/index.htm Trestles galore
http://www.bowser-trains.com/ Some useful older steam (e.g., Cary conversion for Mantua General) and detail parts
http://home.earthlink.net/~dan_d_sparks/goldenrailsx.html informational
http://www.housatonicrr.com/ Craig Bisgeier's 1892 Housatonic RR
http://www.labellemodels.com/ Craftsman car kits - a bit tougher than laser-cut stuff, but some very nice variety; I really like the 1905 coaches
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/Page0002.Html More information
http://www.riograndemodels.com/ V&T standard gauge stuff is entirely pre-1910, much of it former Central Pacific stock. I really like their "California" arch bar truck castings.
http://www.westerfield.biz/ A little bit later (say, 1910-1920), but the early PSC hoppers are definitely turn of the century.
http://www.geocities.com/bkempins/ASMMain/Main.html 28' cattle car and Civil War-era trucks
http://www.borail.org/ Probably the best museum for pre-WWI railroad equipment in the U.S.
http://www.remsmodels.com/ Nice line of sub-34' wooden cars
http://www.jaksind.com/Page/ss_main.html You can get them from Walthers, but this is a good page for Scale Structures - a few here that don't show up in the catalog.
http://www.troutcreekeng.com/ Several discontinued-but-revived lines, as well as a very good selection of Colorado Midland rolling stock.
http://www.comstockcarshops.com/shoparrivals.htm Focus on mining stuff; some four wheel ore jennies.
http://www.prestigeseriesarchitecturalmodels.com/ I saw this guy on E-bay - haven't bought anything from him, but I like masonry, so I thought it was worth including.
http://nebrownstone.mousepaw.com/index.htm Ditto
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Chip,
Remember that scratchbuilding is your friend. Scratching in plastic is simple, time-friendly, and generally pain free. True, there's a learning curve as with anything else, but the curve is fast with plastic. If you can build a Branchline freight car, Roundhouse steam engine, or resin freight car, you've got all the skills necessary to scratch.
And since basically NO manufacturer really supports the pre WWI era, you almost HAVE to learn how to scratchbuild!
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
Those cars look great - are they cast, or built up?
I'll put in a good word for LaBelle - their kits are great, and I learned a lot about woodworking from them.
MidlandPacific wrote: Those cars look great - are they cast, or built up?
Hi MP,
The cars are completely scratched (well, except for the NBW castings and trucks!), and will eventually become resin kits. The top car is an 1895 34' box and the gon is an 1890 MP&N car. Both are standard gauge.
orsonroy wrote: MidlandPacific wrote: Those cars look great - are they cast, or built up? Hi MP, The cars are completely scratched (well, except for the NBW castings and trucks!), and will eventually become resin kits. The top car is an 1895 34' box and the gon is an 1890 MP&N car. Both are standard gauge.
Nice Gondolas. With a mine that is an integral part of the layout, I have making a string of them to do. I was thinking more like 26' though.
Are the holes in the chassis for truss rods like in the MDC models?
SpaceMouse wrote: Nice Gondolas. With a mine that is an integral part of the layout, I have making a string of them to do. I was thinking more like 26' though. Are the holes in the chassis for truss rods like in the MDC models?
Those two gons took me about six hours to do, over three days (Fri-Sun). I'm heading over to the LHS tonight to pick up more NBWs and queenposts to finish them!
The holes ARE for the trussrods. The plan is to use 5# fishing line for the rods, with threaded on Tichy turnbuckles. Once the ACC is dry, I'll add a sub floor of .010" V-groove siding for the "real" floor.
After these cars I'm planning on doing a 28' or 30' drop-bottom gon. Those are what you really need for your mine runs, but they'll be a but tougher to engineer for a resin kit!
orsonroy wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Nice Gondolas. With a mine that is an integral part of the layout, I have making a string of them to do. I was thinking more like 26' though. Are the holes in the chassis for truss rods like in the MDC models?Chip, Those two gons took me about six hours to do, over three days (Fri-Sun). I'm heading over to the LHS tonight to pick up more NBWs and queenposts to finish them! The holes ARE for the trussrods. The plan is to use 5# fishing line for the rods, with threaded on Tichy turnbuckles. Once the ACC is dry, I'll add a sub floor of .010" V-groove siding for the "real" floor.After these cars I'm planning on doing a 28' or 30' drop-bottom gon. Those are what you really need for your mine runs, but they'll be a but tougher to engineer for a resin kit!
I trust you'll post some pics. Dang I wish I could get styrene around here.
SpaceMouse wrote: orsonroy wrote: MidlandPacific wrote: Those cars look great - are they cast, or built up? Hi MP, The cars are completely scratched (well, except for the NBW castings and trucks!), and will eventually become resin kits. The top car is an 1895 34' box and the gon is an 1890 MP&N car. Both are standard gauge.Nice Gondolas. With a mine that is an integral part of the layout, I have making a string of them to do. I was thinking more like 26' though. Are the holes in the chassis for truss rods like in the MDC models?
have a look at the Tichy ore cars
http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/293-4012
it's actually a 22 foot car . and a really nice kit that looks great when built .a string of them sitting at a mine will be very impressive . they come 2 in a box or you can get the 12 pack if you need a lot
ereimer wrote: have a look at the Tichy ore cars http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/293-4012it's actually a 22 foot car . and a really nice kit that looks great when built .a string of them sitting at a mine will be very impressive . they come 2 in a box or you can get the 12 pack if you need a lot
Look good--especially this part: "not currently in stock at Walthers, Expected: Unknown"
Typical Walthers.
SpaceMouse wrote: ereimer wrote: have a look at the Tichy ore cars http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/293-4012it's actually a 22 foot car . and a really nice kit that looks great when built .a string of them sitting at a mine will be very impressive . they come 2 in a box or you can get the 12 pack if you need a lot Look good--especially this part: "not currently in stock at Walthers, Expected: Unknown"Typical Walthers.
I get mine at Caboose Hobbies. They seem to have stock whenever I need more. I have eight built and 8 yet to build ( 4 of the built ones are 16 yr old Gould kits).
I did scratch build some gondolas for coal use; I will try and get a picture or two later.
Don't bother with Walthers; head straight to Tichy:
www.tichytraingroup.com
The ore cars (1906 build date) are $14.95 for a two pack. That's a pretty darned good deal, especially for the most detailed ore cars on the market! Tichy is a great compaly to deal with online; I order from them all the time, and have never had anything but a pleasant experience. Best of all, if you order more than $25, shipping is free. Order more than $50, and you get 10% off your order!
Besides the Evergreen styrene in those cars of mine, all the other parts (including the archbar trucks) are from Tichy. I think those gons cost me $7 apiece to scratch, and about three times the amount of time to build as opposed to a high-end kit.
SpaceMouse wrote:I'm going to show my ignorance here. What would be the difference between the 1906 Tichy ore cars and ones that would be found in 1885 besides being made 21 years too late?
Probably that ore cars didn't exist in 1885. Or at least, ore cars that looked like the Tichy ones didn't exist. I just dug through my copy of the 1890 Car Builder's book (reprint) and it does show a hopper bottom gon. But that car is 28 feet long, lower than the Tichy car, and only holds 20 tons.
I suspect that for 1885 you'd see plain gons most used for mine service, both drop bottom and solid.
Oh, I almost forgot: look at this boxcar. It's 34 feet long, 8.5 feet wide, and has a body that's 9 feet tall at the peak. The dimensions match many newer-period (post-WWI) narrow gauge cars. NG freight cars, especially Rio Grande stuff, is readily available as plastic kits (Pre Scale and Grandt Line). Looks like using HOn3 stuff for early period standard gauge modeling might be an untapped resource!
MidlandPacific wrote:Yeah, there's something to that - early SG cars were pretty narrow. I just finished a pair of the BTS Civil War era boxcars, and the carbodies are so narrow that the journal boxes stick out past the sides (I used Rio Grande Models California arch bar trucks). You see the same effect in some pictures of early cars - there are three SP boxcars in Guy Dunscomb's book on SP steam, ranging from 28' to 34' feet in length, and the smaller ones are obviously very narrow.
True, look at some of the early Pennsy designs, about nine feet wide.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html
Have fun