Model Railroader (and RMC) publishes what sells. I buy it. I think they give me enough small layouts for inspiration and enough big ones for fantasy.
When i get rich I ain't gonna be modelling in a 10-foot-square room any more
Got it, chip.
Turns out my wife's friend is a serious photographer with all the cool gadgets. We're going to ask her for help.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SteamFreak wrote: Seriously, Dave, I agree with many others here that you should submit to MRR pronto. If you want to see more instances of more moderate layouts in their pages, than why not yours? You're scenery and detail are excellent. One wouldn't know from your closeup photos that the layout is as compact as it is, anyway. Do you feel insecure about your work?
Seriously, Dave, I agree with many others here that you should submit to MRR pronto. If you want to see more instances of more moderate layouts in their pages, than why not yours? You're scenery and detail are excellent. One wouldn't know from your closeup photos that the layout is as compact as it is, anyway. Do you feel insecure about your work?
No, I'm not insecure about anything. As I've stated in this and other threads, what's keeping me from submitting my layout is MR's photography standards. I don't have the equipment or skill to do that, and frankly I'm not looking to get into photography as yet another hobby. I would like to submit my layout this year, if I can find a friend with the photography skills and ability. The digital photos I posted will not cut it for MR.
CNJ831 ,
I thought perhaps I was off base-I guess not. If anything, I second your perspective. The hobby certainly has changed. I remember when it was a space saving scale not an entire philosophy of kinda like here buy a starter set...now replicate October 19, 1952 or something similar which is fine for others but not for the kid..it would give me a headache...oh well the editorial content seems to be geared to these two extremes with no middle ground... I would have liked to have seen a price tag for the project layout -whats your guesstimate?
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
wallyworld wrote:I picked up a copy of the March MR. It has been a couple of decades since I had last read it. Good grief. One layout was not even built by the owner. The whole mag seemed to be geared toward either newbies or extravagant works of art.
I picked up a copy of the March MR. It has been a couple of decades since I had last read it. Good grief. One layout was not even built by the owner. The whole mag seemed to be geared toward either newbies or extravagant works of art.
That, Wally, is exactly what I said way back at the very beginning of this thread!
CNJ831
huge layouts :yay:
Maintenance :boo:
big layouts need to be clubish or have friends over to help.
If you work it right, you can have a biggish layout in a small space, but its all about fun and how to work that out.
Interestingly enough, my LHS owner was telling me that N Scale is on the rise. In fact, he said that he's had three young couples come in in the past week who were starting N Scale layouts together. Perhaps you're at the forefront of a micro-trend.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Like some others, I sometimes get frustrated reading about those super-huge layouts, mainly because starting something one knows could never be finished is frustrating. I am, however, often inspired by these layouts, not because of their size, the grandure of the layout plan, or the panoramic views of portions of the layouts, but by the photographs of individual scenes. More often than not, these scenes would be just as at home on a 4' x 8' as on a 24' x 48' layout. The object is the quality of the modelling; the size of the layout is a moot issue.
It seems that the idea is that there are those who want to see at least a few more articles on small to medium size layouts that are within their time, space and financial constraints. I can't disagree with that. But I think we also have to ask the question, "Why?" Are you actually going model or copy that small model railroad? I might be speaking out of turn, but I don't think that would be such a great idea, someone has already done it. Use your imagination and build your own model railroad. Are you looking for track plans? Buy one of the trackplan magazines or get someone to formulate a trackplan for you. Are you looking for inspiration? Well, everyone including George Sellios, Allen McCelland, Howard Zane, Cliff Powers, etc. is looking for that and they find it in three places; the prototype (the very best source), the photos of individual scenes on a model railroad or their imagination. Where the first and last reasons are concerned, size dosen't matter. As for the second reason, you generally wouldn't know the size of the layout unless some one told you.
This is another one of those, "Everybody's right and nobody's wrong," threads so I guess like the song says, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do."
"Money can't make you happy, and happy can't make you money."
-Groucho Marx
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Agamemnon wrote: maandg wrote:You may now resume the vilification of the wealthy. They're rich. I don't see any reason to feel sympathy for them.
maandg wrote:You may now resume the vilification of the wealthy.
They're rich. I don't see any reason to feel sympathy for them.
The difference between the rich and those who would be rich is that the rich no longer labour under the illusion that money can solve all of life's problems...including the envy and churlish hate of the latter.
Sorry Guys, but nothing is insanely too large for a model railroad. It is not a one size fits all activity. One uses the available space with the available resources. If you are not rich enough to build a huge layout, who cares. I'm not either, but that doesn't mean I don't learn from viewing them. I didn't puke at the railroad's exhibit at the 1939 NY World's Fair. It inspired me. I didn't throw up all over the place at the Chicago Museum of Science or Trainz thing in New Jersey. But I learned from all of them.
Because I started with Lionel 0-72 with an M-1000 on the attic floor, a 4 x 8 layout is absurd to me. It couldn't even be done with 36" radius O Gauge track. Even for HO, it is similar to trying to design a family sedan of that dimensions. It can't be done. Almost every one of the 4 x 8 layout designs I have seen are essentially expanded Christmas tree layouts with trains running around in circles. Sure there are a few sidings, but essentially a very boring concept. Why 4 x 8? Because a sheet of foam or plywood is that size? How ridiculous can we get?
Using dimensional lumber for the bench work, one can build a 5 x 10 or 6 x 12 layout if there is room for it, and at the same cost. One might achieve at least a 24 inch minimum radius and decent operation as a result. In my opinion, nothing will destroy continued participation in this hobby quicker than a boring layout. Sure, small layouts are possible, and even sensible if space is at a premium. An 18 inch x 48 inch industrial switching layout, for instance. To put it bluntly, I think that articles like "Build the 4x8 Podunk Central in a week" are a disservice to potential participants in this great hobby and a travesty. It makes more sense to have HD saw it in half length wise and build a 2 x 16 switching layout for the same price.
SpaceMouse wrote:It's not really a question of "hating" anyone. It's more a question of which kind of behaviour are you going to reward - success or failure? Is it better for society for an individual to strive to be rich, or is is better for them to accept being poor? For me, its a no brainer. -GeorgeWhoa! I believe that anyone can accomplish what they can conceive, but I'm not sure how your response fits into the Model Railroader content agenda, if they have one. (I'm still convinced that the number of articles on larger layouts is based upon wealth of submissions of larger layouts and a dearth of submissions of smaller layouts, rather than agenda--hence the campaigns for small layout design contests, etc.)At any rate, could you clarify.
It's not really a question of "hating" anyone. It's more a question of which kind of behaviour are you going to reward - success or failure? Is it better for society for an individual to strive to be rich, or is is better for them to accept being poor? For me, its a no brainer. -George
For me, its a no brainer.
-George
Whoa! I believe that anyone can accomplish what they can conceive, but I'm not sure how your response fits into the Model Railroader content agenda, if they have one. (I'm still convinced that the number of articles on larger layouts is based upon wealth of submissions of larger layouts and a dearth of submissions of smaller layouts, rather than agenda--hence the campaigns for small layout design contests, etc.)
At any rate, could you clarify.
Chip,
I was purely responding to Agemenon's Class Envy drivel (that's why I quoted his message).
All of that aside, it is not a good idea to equate layout size with the "wealth" of the owner. John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid might be considered a "large" layout, but when asked about the cost of his layout he answered it cost about the same as a "pack of cigarettes" a day. And while comfortable, I don't think anyone would have called John Allen "wealthy".
My own layout is on the large side of "medium" (about 12 x 30) and yet I know I am not "wealthy" - ask my wife!
Yeah, some layouts are insanely large, but, gosh, I love looking at them. Would I like to see more "small" layouts, maybe, but I think one of the things that makes MR the great magazine that it is is that they resist taking editorial directive from me!
On the subject of having help building my LARGE (by general description) layout, Yes I had the help of my two boys. They helped lay the track but I was the one that built the benchwork and did most all of the wiring.
Now as for the rest (and this layout was started in 2001) the scenery is slowly (and I mean slowly) being built as well as the structures. Why, as I am now doing all of the rest of the layout myself!
Yep! I am pretty much spending all of my time working on the layout. But then I am about ready to retire. The boys are gone now and soon the house will be paid off.
So I can afford to put some money into the layout. But I have been into modeling for over 40 years. So I have collected a LOT of equipment (a little at a time) and NO I am not rich by any means. I work for a Modular Home Mfg and they don't really want to give you a lot of money!
But the one thing is that when the winter season comes around you don't work as much (Who is going to buy a Mod in the middle of winter?) So I have a number of days that I can live in the basement and can get a lot done. This is making good use of your time. When I retire, I have been told, I will not have as much free time as I did when I worked and I am inclined to believe this!
But I figured that I should get the expensive stuff out of the way before I retired so I finished off the basement (drywall - drop ceiling - lights), and purchased all of the track, turnouts and structure kits over the past 5 years (3000 ft and 400 turnouts). So when I have the days off I can just work on the layout. That is how it is done. Could I have done this a few years ago, NOPE!
But now that I don't have to feed a lot of kids and go to school functions, it is amazing how much extra money is available. Also belonging to a club gets me extra help if I need it but what it really does is supply me with enough operators to run my home layout close to what I had envisioned.
And as far as making changes to the layout, I do but at a much more refined pace. And the one neat thing about having a LARGE layout is if you get tired working in one spot you can just move to the other end of the room and work on something completely different. Can't really get tired of having to the same thing continuously when you just move to a different area and do something different. But sometimes this can be a disadvantage as you may not really finish up anything completely.
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Agamemnon wrote: tatans wrote:It sounds like you are falling into the trap of many model railroaders, that being watching other MR's spending money like oil typhoons because they do have plenty of money(but will tell you they don't) This hobby attracts people with vast amounts of money who buy every new product on the market and buy multipiles of them, every one to their own taste, BUT, this does not mean this is the norm. Don't worry about these guys, build your own, your own way and make it fit your budget(remember, those other guys have no idea what 'budget" means) The people with the insanely huge layouts live in a completely different galaxie than you and I and should have no bearing on your lifestyle, and it's not jealousy.Way I see it, I have to loathe someone, so it might as well be the rich. They're used to it, and can always buy something to console themselves. Hating the poor just leaves you icky all over, like bathing in molasses.
tatans wrote:It sounds like you are falling into the trap of many model railroaders, that being watching other MR's spending money like oil typhoons because they do have plenty of money(but will tell you they don't) This hobby attracts people with vast amounts of money who buy every new product on the market and buy multipiles of them, every one to their own taste, BUT, this does not mean this is the norm. Don't worry about these guys, build your own, your own way and make it fit your budget(remember, those other guys have no idea what 'budget" means) The people with the insanely huge layouts live in a completely different galaxie than you and I and should have no bearing on your lifestyle, and it's not jealousy.
Way I see it, I have to loathe someone, so it might as well be the rich. They're used to it, and can always buy something to console themselves. Hating the poor just leaves you icky all over, like bathing in molasses.
It's not really a question of "hating" anyone. It's more a question of which kind of behaviour are you going to reward - success or failure? Is it better for society for an individual to strive to be rich, or is is better for them to accept being poor?
Dave Vollmer wrote: fifedog wrote: Dave V - I've read your posts (most well worded), observed your modelling (nice eye for detail/unique modules), and enjoy your photos (good light and composition). Sir, submit something to Model Railroader... see what happens.Thanks! I'm considering doing that this year. I need to work on those photographs, though.
fifedog wrote: Dave V - I've read your posts (most well worded), observed your modelling (nice eye for detail/unique modules), and enjoy your photos (good light and composition). Sir, submit something to Model Railroader... see what happens.
Dave V - I've read your posts (most well worded), observed your modelling (nice eye for detail/unique modules), and enjoy your photos (good light and composition). Sir, submit something to Model Railroader... see what happens.
Thanks! I'm considering doing that this year. I need to work on those photographs, though.
Dave,
Just do it! At least to the Trackside Photos. I've heard that for feature articles the lead time can be over 1 year! So don't delay!
would a 20' X 20' be considered large? That's what I plan to have in my future house ( when i'm like 25)....For me, bigger isn't always better...For me at least.... I tend to change things on the layout just about every time I work on it.....I tear up track, put it somewhere else, and so on. Now imagine if I had a superlayout filling my basement- The thing would never be finished, would resemble various parts of the "big dig", and I'd never be satisfied with it completely, I would tear apart, rebuild.....tear apart, rebuild......
Dave
Come on guys! We all know... size... doesn't... matter....