nfmisso wrote:it is impossible to operate with switch lists with duplicate car numbers - how do you delivered or picked up the correct car if there are dups?
fiatfan wrote: I just erase either the first or last number on one of the cars.
Daniel1975 wrote: I know the numbers are tiny (even on most HO scale models) and I know that most visitors not familiar with the Hobby wouldn't even notice it but I insist on different numbers.Red Caboose really has great models and they always have a run of 6 to 12 cars with different numbers and then they will release another run with another 6 to 12 new numbers.... as I said this is a detail but I don't want the same number twice.
I know the numbers are tiny (even on most HO scale models) and I know that most visitors not familiar with the Hobby wouldn't even notice it but I insist on different numbers.
Red Caboose really has great models and they always have a run of 6 to 12 cars with different numbers and then they will release another run with another 6 to 12 new numbers.... as I said this is a detail but I don't want the same number twice.
It's an evil plot to get you to buy more cars
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
fiatfan wrote: I have a small layout and have very few duplicates. When I do, I just erase either the first or last number on one of the cars. Tom
I have a small layout and have very few duplicates. When I do, I just erase either the first or last number on one of the cars.
Tom
Okay... I think I'll just stick to mixing up paint to match the car color, paint over one of the numbers and put a new one (decal) in its place. Though it's a pain in the neck to do it that way, I just feel a lot better about it.
Tracklayer
it is impossible to operate with switch lists with duplicate car numbers - how do you delivered or picked up the correct car if there are dups?
Then Texas Zepher wrote:
" border="0" /> It doesn't bother me much at all, but the computer hates it. A duplicate numbered car will just end up sitting unless its twin happens to show up on the exact same siding. Then it might get moved but probably not since by that time it is probably the car at the very end of the siding.
.........>>>>>
I don't use a computer for ops generation. Even if you do, it is probably possible to set things up so that a cut of cars is designated by a single car card that has the first and last car number on it. I know this is not a problem for old school types like me that work with all paper systems.
This would avoid any issue with a computer program that stumbles over duplicate numbers and certainly permits the use of duplicate car numbers under the right circumstances.
I generally use only cars with distinct numbers on my layout, but I also feel that any real need for it in the model world is driven more by the familiar neurotic need for perfection, than any need for recordkeeping, safety inspections, return on investment, or the other factors that drive real-world needs for unique car numbers. I used to work with inventory and record keeping for the transportation division of a Fortune 500 corporation. True, it was trucks, not trains, but the same basic principles apply -- never use a duplicate number fo an asset or it messes up the system. But even with it, we had ways to designate distinct assets with duplicate numbers, let's say acquired through a merger, by adding a prefix, etc to the numbers in our system.
That said, the only duplicate car numbers on my layout are set-up as cuts. My paper system handles this just fine. And while I keep an inventory of rolling stock, it is to help me avoid buying duplicate road numbers on the 95% of my rolling stock that does have unique road numbers. I don't worry too much about cases like the couple of sets of duplicate numbered hoppers I mentioned earlier. I could even buy several more of these and designate several more distinct cuts of cars with different end car numbers from the same set of six numbers. If you don't get a case of overwhelming cognitive dissonnance from the fact that there is more than one car of a certain number on your layout, it works just fine. And visitors will rarely notice this sleight of hand, especially if most everything else on your layout is uniquely numbered.
Of course, if everything on your railroad is set up for individual car railroading because of era or prototype, then you are stuck with needing unique numbers. But many people and most of those modeling the last couple of decades can certainly use this small compromise as a workable solution for a certain precentage of their rolling stock fleet. It you have the time, it's always easy to upgarde to unique numbers when and if you have the time to do so.
In short, the need for unqiue car numbers in model railroading is driven less by any practical reason in most cases than it is by what each of us considers to be what meets our personal psychological need for a "good enough" depiction of reality, just like the numerous other compromises that modelers are forced to make all the time. We each do what works best for us.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I renumber every car as part of its, "Prepare for placement in operation," inspection (just the first time it's prepared for operation, not every time.) All of my freight equipment carries numbers I have seen in prototype service, either in photos or with my personal eyeballs.
That said, I have two cars that drive casual visitors crazy. Both (a box car and a drop-side gondola) are JNR standard basic black with white stenciling, and both are numbered 1027! Thing is, the box car is WaRa1027, while the gondola is ToMu1027. The katakana prefix identifies car type and capacity, and is part of the car number! (Katakana is a phonetic form of written Japanese, and the appropriate symbols appear both on the cars and on their car cards.)
Of course, the assigned lading is a dead giveaway. Nobody is going to spot an open gon at the freighthouse with a load of fine furniture, and spotting a new box car at the tipple for a capacity load of nut coal is even less likely.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - language included)
YES ...........Even though I have no layout at current time, planning one, dupes Irriatate the mortal crap out of me. Why? you ask? Dont know. I have a list of everything cataorgized with maker, road and number, reporting marks as well. Every time I go to the Hobby Store I take the list. Had my first trainset loco from 23 years ago old bachmann U boat and got another one in a lot of train stuff that I got from my boss and the SAME LOCO was in there. Same # and everything, but the sideframes. That lasted 15 minutes. Patched.
J.W.
Yes it bothers me. But I try to do things proto! You wouldnt see dups out on the real road so why should you have dups on your railroad? Like I tell my wife, "A different roadnumber!"
Kevin
Not in the Bloody Least. When Accurail came out with their outside braced Rio Grande boxcars, I went bananas, and bought enough to pack up all of Salt Lake City and haul it piece-meal to Denver, and didn't look back. Actually, I run them mixed in with other cars, and nobody seems to notice (at least I don't see anyone standing around with binoculars, checking).
Of course, Accurail offers decals to change the numbers, and maybe one day if I get REALLY antsy, I'll order them and change the last two numbers on each ar, but for the time being, I'm too busy watching my new 3-cylinder 1600 Mountain hauling them to notice that they're all numbered the same.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I model in N scale. The Three Foot Rule applies!
Since I'm not yet into prototype operations, duplicate numbers don't bother me at all. If that changes, I'll be buying decals to overcome the problem.
Darrell, quiet...for now
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
Yep, it bugs the heck out of me. I have over 250 cars on my layout, and none of them have the same reporting mark and number.
When I see it, like the one time I saw a 50 car NYC Pacemaker freight with all the same car number, it just destroys any sense of realism anyone is trying to create. Sure, the public doesn't care, but then the public wouldn't care if you ran a 200ton derrick at 120mph with the boom facing forward, either. And they love wrecks almost as much as they love speed.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
It does not bother me but I like the response of nit pickers amd rivet counters. At least it fulfills their needs.
rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Yes. Even in N scale.
No two cars on my layout have the same road number.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Paul3 wrote: Sure, the public doesn't care, but then the public wouldn't care if you ran a 200ton derrick at 120mph with the boom facing forward, either. And they love wrecks almost as much as they love speed.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Sure, the public doesn't care, but then the public wouldn't care if you ran a 200ton derrick at 120mph with the boom facing forward, either. And they love wrecks almost as much as they love speed.
That's too funny.
It bothers me yes.
That is why I pulled some orders of Woodland Scenics Dry Transfers and adjusted my rolling stock purchases around different car number availibility.
Half tempted to duplicate some more athearn coal hoppers in the B&O that I know are availible right now and replace the numbers on each car simply because Athearn does NOT make enough numbers availible RTR.
Nope.
underworld
If switching the same # cars is a concern, you can keep a few coupled together and run them / switch them in and out of your industries as a block, as space permits. This works especially well with coal cars.
mlehman wrote: Gosh, I didn't know anyone even paid attention to those little, bitty numbers in N scale... :>)Nah, just kidding.N usually has a bit fewer choices available. I've noticed that Micro-Trains generally releases cars in single numbers, while in HO its cousin Kadee puts out pairs of differently numbered cars. More typical are releases from Red Caboose and Intermountain, which will put out 6 or 12 different road numbers of the same car in each run. If you want to represent certain prototypes, you have to accept some of that at times, no matter what scale you model in. Otherwise it's difficult to get a representative fleet of rolling stock assembled.Your strategy sounds a lot like my own. For boxcars and other types generally handled as single cars, I stick to distinctive road numbers. I do have 12 Athearn hoppers that have duplicated numbers, two sets of the same six numbers. With traffic like coal being generally handled as cuts of cars, if not outright unit trains, it bothers me less to have duped numbers. And it's virtually unnoticeable to visitors.
Gosh, I didn't know anyone even paid attention to those little, bitty numbers in N scale...
:>)
Nah, just kidding.
N usually has a bit fewer choices available. I've noticed that Micro-Trains generally releases cars in single numbers, while in HO its cousin Kadee puts out pairs of differently numbered cars. More typical are releases from Red Caboose and Intermountain, which will put out 6 or 12 different road numbers of the same car in each run. If you want to represent certain prototypes, you have to accept some of that at times, no matter what scale you model in. Otherwise it's difficult to get a representative fleet of rolling stock assembled.
Your strategy sounds a lot like my own. For boxcars and other types generally handled as single cars, I stick to distinctive road numbers. I do have 12 Athearn hoppers that have duplicated numbers, two sets of the same six numbers. With traffic like coal being generally handled as cuts of cars, if not outright unit trains, it bothers me less to have duped numbers. And it's virtually unnoticeable to visitors.
My thought exactly. But ya it shouldn't be that funny. Sorry.
But I guess for those that are really wanting different numbers they can go and change them. Otherwise I will buy the car with different numbers, but then If I want more of the cars, I will buy more of the same numbers. So it doesn't bother me on freight cars. On passenger cars I am a little more on the different number side.
Happy railroading
James
Our club's model layout is under initial construction. Since a card-order and/or switch-list method of car routing is anticipated, we are planning to permit no duplicate car numbers for any one prototype owner (cars would be identified by owner and number). Since the layout could end up with 1,000 cars (both individually and club owned) on it at one time, I expect a lot of renumbering. Same for locomotives.
Mark Pierce
if your into operating different numbers help, but I may have unit coal trains so same numbers wont bugger me there.
depends how you wanna operate.
Paul3 wrote: Yep, it bugs the heck out of me. I have over 250 cars on my layout, and none of them have the same reporting mark and number.When I see it, like the one time I saw a 50 car NYC Pacemaker freight with all the same car number, it just destroys any sense of realism anyone is trying to create. Sure, the public doesn't care, but then the public wouldn't care if you ran a 200ton derrick at 120mph with the boom facing forward, either. And they love wrecks almost as much as they love speed.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
I'm glad you brought this up. I had someone recently make the comment that the speed I run my trains at is boring, and asked me if they went any faster than that. I replied - These are trains, you're wanting slot cars...
I am not terribly bothered by duplicate car numbers, as I can disguise them fairly easily, by spacing them apart, or using them in different trains, depending on the circumstances. I do not use a car card system, though, so this may skew my opinion slightly.
I do, however, appreciate manufacturers that offer packages of multiple cars of a particular type that do carry different numbers on each car. I've purchased several sets of Athearn reefers and coal hoppers packaged in this manner. They come in a six pack and have different numbers on each car. I like this idea for two reasons. First, the numbers are different, so I don't have to put any special emphasis on the order in which I run them. Second, this method of packaging seems much more economical to me. I can build up my rolling stock collection more affordably (and more rapidly) by purchasing these six packs than by making purchases of individual cars.
I would encourage other manufacturers to offer similar packaging for their products. I know there were a few manufacturers named in this thread that are doing things like that, or at least having numerous numbers available for each model. I know Walthers/Proto offer two different numbers for each of many of their models, but this is far too few choices, especially for those who use a car card system.
-Joe
Tracklayer wrote: Paul3 wrote: Yep, it bugs the heck out of me. I have over 250 cars on my layout, and none of them have the same reporting mark and number.When I see it, like the one time I saw a 50 car NYC Pacemaker freight with all the same car number, it just destroys any sense of realism anyone is trying to create. Sure, the public doesn't care, but then the public wouldn't care if you ran a 200ton derrick at 120mph with the boom facing forward, either. And they love wrecks almost as much as they love speed.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************I'm glad you brought this up. I had someone recently make the comment that the speed I run my trains at is boring, and asked me if they went any faster than that. I replied - These are trains, you're wanting slot cars...Tracklayer
Once I get the Duplex out with the passenger cars, it will run. They wont have any chance to look-see too closely.