fbrand wrote: The point is that to create a model railroad is all about CREATIVITY and learning things.. . .If someone really doesn't like to build a layout and has the money, than that is his choice. But he's missing out on a lot. . . . A lot of people seem to do that these days, taking shortcuts and getting to the result instead of enjoying the journey.
The point is that to create a model railroad is all about CREATIVITY and learning things.
. . .
If someone really doesn't like to build a layout and has the money, than that is his choice. But he's missing out on a lot.
A lot of people seem to do that these days, taking shortcuts and getting to the result instead of enjoying the journey.
Those are key points to your enjoyment of the hobby. I would be rather embarrassed to write about what is the "right" way for somebody else to enjoy a hobby.
I sense a lot of this boils down to petty jelousy over the fact that somebody has more money than we do. However, as I pointed out previously there are all sorts of cases where somebody pays someone else to do something that could be done themselves. Whether it's building an entire layout or building a single track bumper doesn't matter - it's all part of one continuum. The only difference is the cost. If you are going to complain about MR having articles about pro-built layouts, what in principle prevents you from complaining about an article on weathering a RTR freight car? (It was not too long ago that MR had letters decrying kitbashing rather than making things from scratch. . .) It really seems to me that people are saying: "Heck, my layout would look good too if I had that much money to spend on it", which I read as just the converse of "My layout looks like crap not because I don't know what I'm doing but because I can't afford [X]."
If you want to complain about articles, complain on the basis that you didn't find them interesting or useful. Complaining about how someone else enjoys their hobby makes you sound controlling and spiteful while complaining about how much money they spend looks like plain envy.
I also find it odd how selective we can be when decrying "rich people" and how they spend their money. For example, there's guy in the MRP 2007 who had a free-standing, two-story, 3000 sq ft building built for his layout (and oh-by-the-way his photography studio). It looks like it would've cost at least $50,000, maybe $100,000 depending on his location. However, we say nothing because he built the 30 x 48, 360 feet mainline, layout himself?!?
KL
It's nice to dream. It's nice to see the pretty layouts. But, how many kids are turned away becoause they KNOW they will NEVER reach that level of artistry? How many adults look at those layouts and figure, "why bother? Mine will never look that good".
Why? These professional layout builders started off as hobbyists and discovered they were pretty good at it. You don't go to school to be trained in the art. There's no apprenticeship. You just do it, mistakes and all. It bothers me not a whit that someone paid someone else to build a layout for him/her.
There's an old joke about a guy stopping a hippie in NYC and asking him how to get to Carnegie Hall. The reply "Practice, man, practice". The guy who pays for it will never get to Carnegie Hall except as part of the audience, so have some pity on him.
I guess what peeves me about this is that, whilst I in no way am putting down the skills and creativity shown by the builders, it just seems to me that MR should be about the rest of us, full of how-to articles and personal experiences and tips, etc. It ought to be featuring REAL layouts built by AVERAGE modellers. Yeah, I can aspire to the F&SM level, even though I know I'll not quite make it.
About the rest of us? Oh, you mean us po' folk who can't afford guys like Mindheim to build layouts for us? IOW, if it's built by someone who made the transition from amateur to professional, then it's off limits because some of us might have our self esteem crushed? Does that mean if one of the posters on this forum became good enough to build layouts for pay that he should be forever banned from MR because he's now a professional (unless he's showcasing his own layout)?
This isn't a model railroad example, but my wife and I refurbished a Victorian house over a period of about 6 years. Along the way, we read a lot of magazines to check for ideas. Surprise, surprise, there was an awful lot in those mags that was done by professionals, and it was far more than appears in MR. We didn't let that discourage us. Actually, we learned some things. About a year after we finished the refurb, we put the house on the market. Apparently we did something right, because the gent who bought the house not only paid list, but asked us to leave the furnishings (for a slight additional cost, of course). I'm sorry, but using the excuse, "I'll never match the professional level of [insert name here]" as a reason for not trying is a cop-out. You never know how good you'll get unless you try.
Andre
Very interesting thread - - professionally built versus DIY. I have no opinion or comment on that point, but I do have a question. What percentage of the layouts featured in MRR are professionally built (or, should I say built by a professional) versus built by the owner of the layout? Does MRR note the fact that the layout is built by an outside professional rather than the owner?
I wonder how many layouts you have to build to reach the status of "professionally built". My first layout was large but poorly built, so I tore it down. I did a much better job on the second layout, but if I ever build a third one, I could do one helluva better job, especially in the area of layout design, track laying and lansdscaping.
If you are serious about this hobby, you need to become an artist, electrical engineer, carpenter and painter.
Alton Junction
What difference does it make whether it was professionally built or not. Someone built it and if it is well done, it belongs in MR. We all invest time and money in our layouts. None of us has an unlimited amount of either so we all have to decide how much of each we can afford to put into our layouts. We all strike a different balance depending on our situations.
Even if the owner of the layout did nothing more than write a check, I'm sure the concept and design was largely his. If he chose to outsource the rest of the project, so what. We don't get style points in this hobby.
A great layout is a great layout, no matter how it got built. The end product is what matters.
Everything's been covered, so here's my vote:
1. Buy a layout or build it yourself; I don't care--it's yours.
2. But why in the world is a magazine giving a layout builder an advertisment consisting of several pages with color photos and then paying someone for that ad?
Midnight Railroader wrote: Everything's been covered, so here's my vote:1. Buy a layout or build it yourself; I don't care--it's yours.2. But why in the world is a magazine giving a layout builder an advertisment consisting of several pages with color photos and then paying someone for that ad?
Why? Because they are in the business of selling magazines and the way to do that is to feature outstanding layouts. I'd cancel my subscription if they started featuring average layouts. Average in this hobby just isn't that good. MR does and should feature the best layouts they can find. Some layouts show what can be done with skill and an investment in a lot of time. Others show what can be done if you have the money and not a lot of time. Frankly, I am not the least bit interested in seeing what can be done if you don't have a lot of time, skill, or money.
jecorbett wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: Everything's been covered, so here's my vote:1. Buy a layout or build it yourself; I don't care--it's yours.2. But why in the world is a magazine giving a layout builder an advertisment consisting of several pages with color photos and then paying someone for that ad? Why? Because they are in the business of selling magazines and the way to do that is to feature outstanding layouts. I'd cancel my subscription if they started featuring average layouts. Average in this hobby just isn't that good. MR does and should feature the best layouts they can find. Some layouts show what can be done with skill and an investment in a lot of time. Others show what can be done if you have the money and not a lot of time. Frankly, I am not the least bit interested in seeing what can be done if you don't have a lot of time, skill, or money.
If, as you infer, all the "average" hobbyist can do in the way of modeling isn't all that good, then simply providing a series of fantastic images of someone's $100,000 , pro-built, layout in the magazine, while lacking any supporting/instructive comments as to how the building or detailing was accomplished, is a total waste...except in the respect of MR selling magazines to the fringe and dabbler hobbyist, whose essential involvement in model railroading IS simply looking at pretty pictures. You can't copy or replicate a complex design or scenic elements without some sort of background information on how it was done and certainly not by just looking at a photo.
MR made its reputation from decades of presenting how-to material for the hobbyist to learn the art of model railroading. Were it to shift toward making it nothing more than the hobby's version of House Beautiful it would help to drop it's subscription levels even further than the decline we've seen over the past decade.
CNJ831
I am reading this thread and comparing it to another interest of mine - woodworking. If the woodworking magazines were full of articles by amateurs I wouldn't buy them. I read them looking for professional tips on how to do things to get a good result.
Why not have some professional input in MR. Sure, you may not like the overall layout, but maybe you could get an idea for your own layout. The March issue had a brief description on how they did water as well as the benchwork. It wasn't a detailed description, but it was on a par with the other layout in the issue. Plus MR is doing a project layout with detailed how to instructions and it's being done by the magazine staffers - i.e. professional model railroaders.
Another interesting thing is that we have had professionals writing for years in MR. John Armstrong was a professional layout designer for years and most of us have really enjoyed his layout designs - in fact they are so popular that MR has done several books of his designs.
This idea that we are some how sullied by having layouts, designs, articles by professionals doesn't work for me. I read MR (and RMC) to learn how to do my own layout design, building, modeling, etc better. I also enjoy seeing what others have done regardless of their amateur standing.
Just my
Enjoy
Paul
My point was not to complain about other people having money to buy layouts. I don't mind if some people cannot/will not build their own layout and if they have the money for it, great.
My point is that I don't think it's a good trend if we drift towards the plug-and-play attitude that is so pervasive in all fields and hobbies today. You can either build everything yourself or buy everyting readymade, and you have to decide what items you want to build and what you buy. But if you buy EVERYTHING ready made including the layout itself than you're missing out on a lot.MR can feature an article like this every once in a while, providing inside information/tips are given on how something is done. If this info is omitted, than you simply have some pretty pictures.
I think this hobby has a lot to offer and you can get a great deal of accomplishment from looking at your layout and knowing that you dreamed up this miniature world, did the research, learned all kinds of skills along the way. Sure you can have it done for you and it may look better than what you can make, but it's not the same. I'm not one of those snobs who insists you have to build everything yourself, I buy a lot of things RTR and I don't want to go back to 1955. But the layout itself is something I would never let someone else build.
And I don't care how much money someone has. Someone said that is was spite that other people have more money etc. That is completely beside the point. If someone has a lot of $$, good for them. But I think a hobby should be about enjoyment, not materialism.
This hobby has given me so much enjoyment and I learned so much. I just think it's a pity to miss out on all that.
Frank
I would have no problem buying a custom layout as long as it built to my design and givens without any input from the builder on his thoughts.As far as a custom layout in MR I have no problems with that either as long as it is stated as such..
As far as the hobby becoming "plug and play" I fear thats where its heading as we see that more and more each day but,fear not new kits are still being produce..
What is hobby enjoyment? A excellent question that as many answers as there are modelers.
MY hobby enjoyment doesn't include spending months or years building a layout that may never get finish.Enjoyment for me is and has always been prototypical operation and detailing the layout with mini scenes and other life imitation details..I enjoy building simple car kits,painting the trucks and axles,adding detail to locomotives and the more common modeling things like painting and decaling a car or locomotive.
So,what is enjoyment for me others may not like and visa versa.
I do think its past time we stop judging what a "modeler" is or isn't and understand everybody has his/her way to enjoy the hobby and it may not include your way or what you may feel is the correct way.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Maybe I don't get it.
But my guess is that the pros out there are not as good as the top quality amateurs. Why? Because the amateurs have the time to do it right while the pros must constantly compromise due to time and money constraints. The more they do the better they will get at cutting these corner, but not necessarily.
Charging for your work, doesn't make you good, it just makes you a pro. I see this all the time in construction.
Hopefully, MR only chooses the good pro layouts.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Chip,Just like any contractor they would have to keep a consist level of excellence or they won't be in the business for long.
As far as "top quality amateurs." take a closer look at the layouts..Some are well hidden disasters while others are well above average.Of course the worst seems to be a "experts" layout.
Take time to study the pictures in MR,RMC GMR etc against real life and you can see this..Shocking but,true.
This subject is of added interest to me since I'm originally from Missouri and grew up there, hence landmarks like Union Station, the Busch brewery, etc. are familiar to me. In addition, I'll be modeling Frisco in the 50's era. I'm a physician, but there's no way I could afford a professional modeler to do my layout, and as said in all above, the fun in this hobby is doing all of the things neccessary to achieve the ultimate goal of completing a layout(by the way, have any of us ever completed a layout?). But I'm as time constrained as anyone, so having someone build a layout seems okay to me even if "Raildreams" was the builder and not the individual whose name was quoted all over the presentation. By the way, I thought it was a pretty nice layout.
Jim
Jim,I have finish several industrial switching layouts over the years.You see there is only so much you can do on (say) a 24" x 12 foot switching layout without overkill.
Just as a point of information, to give posters some sense of what pro-built layouts can go for, here are an assortment of quoted figures from Dunham Studios, the folk who produced the well know City Bank Christmas train display in NYC. Figures refer to differing levels of detailing associated with the pricing, available to the customer.
1. Simple layout with some elevated scenery, a few manual turnouts, a few simple structures, simple wiring and single cab control: $175.00 per square foot
2. Average layout with powered turnouts, more complex scenery, plus dual cab control and its associated wiring: $250.00 per square foot
3. Typical up-scale Dunham Studios layout, including a simple background: $300.00 per square foot.
4. Large commercial or touring layout, topping out at around $450.00 per square foot.
To save posters the need to run the numbers, I can tell you that for typical installations we're talking $50,000 to $200,000 (and I'm aware of several out there verging on the high end of those figures!).
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Frankly, I don't understand all the handwringing about the hobby becoming one of plug-and-play with RTR equipment, built-up structures, and professionally built layouts. Every layout starts with a dream and anything that helps a modeler achieve that dream is a good thing. For some, the process of building a layout is as enjoyable if not more enjoyable than actually running trains on it and I would be the last one to deny them that part of the hobby. Not all of us find the construction process that enjoyable. To me building layout is work and a lot of it is not the least bit fun for me. I do it because I want to create a realistic operating layout. I would like to do that in the least amount of time. If I could snap my fingers and instantly have the layout I have conceived in my head, I would do it in a heartbeat. If I had the money to contract the process out to a professional who could complete the layout in a fraction of the time it is taking me and probably do it better than I can, I would do that. Neither is an option for me so I have to do things the old fashioned way. I take advantage of whatever shortcuts that are available to me within my budget, including RTR equipment, prefabbed track, and even built-up structures when I can find ones to my liking.
I've been working on my current layout for over five years and the pace of progress has been frustratingly slow. I have spent far more time building my layout than I would like and far too little actually running the trains. I am hoping that all this work will eventually payoff with the operating layout that I have dreamed about for years. If there was a way to shortcut the process I would certainly do it.
BRAKIE wrote: Chip,Just like any contractor they would have to keep a consist level of excellence or they won't be in the business for long.
Depends on where you live. If a contractor is regulated, like in California, lousy contractors don't last long. The customer has recourses. Here in Pennsylvania, if you have a truck and a hammer you can call yourself a contractor. These guys can stay in business as long as people keep accepting their ridiculously low bids. I doubt there is much regulation of "pro" layout builders.
As far as "top quality amateurs." take a closer look at the layouts..Some are well hidden disasters while others are well above average.Of course the worst seems to be a "experts" layout.Take time to study the pictures in MR,RMC GMR etc against real life and you can see this..Shocking but,true.
90% of the layouts I've seen have never made it past the plywood central stage. Of the ones that have, very few are more than a nod towards landscaping and buildings are rarely painted much less, weathered. Most of the train show stuff I've seen falls into this category. There are exceptions. So I guess then, you wouldn't have to be that good to be better than the average model railroader.
I've seen a couple though that are pretty nice. My own Rock Ridge and Train City I guess would qualify as a hidden disaster. The finished portion of the layout looks good--it just doesn't run well because I've given up on constantly fixing the EZ Track turnouts.
I'm still not sure how being pro qualifies as being good. Or how you can build a hidden disaster and be a top-quality amateur.
CNJ831 wrote: Just as a point of information, to give posters some sense of what pro-built layouts can go for, here are an assortment of quoted figures from Dunham Studios, the folk who produced the well know City Bank Christmas train display in NYC. Figures refer to differing levels of detailing associated with the pricing, available to the customer.1. Simple layout with some elevated scenery, a few manual turnouts, a few simple structures, simple wiring and single cab control: $175.00 per square foot2. Average layout with powered turnouts, more complex scenery, plus dual cab control and its associated wiring: $250.00 per square foot3. Typical up-scale Dunham Studios layout, including a simple background: $300.00 per square foot.4. Large commercial or touring layout, topping out at around $450.00 per square foot.To save posters the need to run the numbers, I can tell you that for typical installations we're talking $50,000 to $200,000 (and I'm aware of several out there verging on the high end of those figures!).CNJ831
Those figures seem reasonable, if not low.
Chip,I truly doubt if your layout would qualify for a hidden disaster at least not from the pictures I seen...A professional is suppose to be good at his/her work..My fishing buddy is a journeyman carpenter and there's nothing he can't tell you about wood,tools,different saws,types of saw blades,he can read blue prints etc.
As far as being a amateur and building a hidden disaster that is simple and easy to do by having the lack of needed skills.One can be a amateur modeler and would be better off to have a local contractor or carpenter to build his/her layout.I seen bench work I wouldn't even sit a cup of coffee on let alone models.
Of course I seen 4x8 foot layouts with plastic milk crates being use as legs-sturdy but,dangerous..The guy had no carpentry skills nor did he own any tools except for 1 small ball peen hammer..
CNJ831 wrote: If, as you [imply], all the "average" hobbyist can do in the way of modeling isn't all that good, then simply providing a series of fantastic images of someone's $100,000 , pro-built, layout in the magazine, while lacking any supporting/instructive comments as to how the building or detailing was accomplished, is a total waste...
If, as you [imply], all the "average" hobbyist can do in the way of modeling isn't all that good, then simply providing a series of fantastic images of someone's $100,000 , pro-built, layout in the magazine, while lacking any supporting/instructive comments as to how the building or detailing was accomplished, is a total waste...
However, I think they do provide that info. Certainly not every aspect in every issue, but over time and in their books (an added expense beyond the magazine for sure, but that's not something new or indicative of
The Decline Of The Hobby
by any means). I doubt that this pro layout is anything more than a successful (?) combination of a dozen or so basic skills that we've all seen time and again, which seems to be a common theme in all craft-type hobbies. And after all, is there much lost in saying nothing over these "supporting/instructive comments" from the past: "The techniques I use on my basic scenery, texturing, and rockwork follow long-time MR author Dave Frary's methods. . ." (MR, 1/07) or "The benchwork is basically L-girder construction with variations such as solid table tops for the yard areas." (MR, 4/84) or "All the three-dimensional rock formations were either chunks of painted coal or hydrocal plaster made from rubber molds of coal pieces. Thin casein colors were used." (MR, 12/61)?
Yup, the info sure was better in the good ol' days, before the hobby went into the dumper . . .
BRAKIE wrote: Chip,I truly doubt if your layout would qualify for a hidden disaster at least not from the pictures I seen...A professional is suppose to be good at his/her work..My fishing buddy is a journeyman carpenter and there's nothing he can't tell you about wood,tools,different saws,types of saw blades,he can read blue prints etc.As far as being a amateur and building a hidden disaster that is simple and easy to do by having the lack of needed skills.One can be a amateur modeler and would be better off to have a local contractor or carpenter to build his/her layout.I seen bench work I wouldn't even sit a cup of coffee on let alone models. Of course I seen 4x8 foot layouts with plastic milk crates being use as legs-sturdy but,dangerous..The guy had no carpentry skills nor did he own any tools except for 1 small ball peen hammer..
For the sake of argument, I will concede your point. A professional is supposed to be good. On the other hand, I've seen many that were not--I got rid of them, but they were hired by others. The term we used for them was blankety-blank fence builders.
In construction, there is a definition of the difference between a journeyman and an apprentice. The journeyman makes his screw-ups look like they were meant to be that way.
I have not yet seen a layout as bad as what you describe. I hope I don't.
200k for a nice layout seems cheap compared to what people put in their cars. I got out of dragracing when my garage built gasers was running againt 200k machines. Two years ago the top sale at Scotsdale was over a million for the same 39 Zypher I bought for $100 in 1952. But then, their car was nicer. By the way, I still go to car shows and look at the beautiful works of art that show up. But then I am glad Schuler built the Crystal Cathederal, though I never suggested to one of my boards that we build one like it.
Imagine loving trains since you were 2 yrs old. At the age of 9 (in 1975), you got a model railroad for Christmas that was a 4X8 piece of particle board with the standard Tyco scenery, a couple buildings and 2 trains. Unfortunately, that was the only completed layout you ever had until you were 39. Sure, your Dad tried his hardest to work with you to build a model railroad using the book "A Model Railroad that Grows" when you were a teenager but when you left home, there was still no track laid.
At 17, you join a model railroad club. They have big plans, and are handlaying alot of track but you are young and have no experience. Then they decide to build a new building and begin again. Yes, you've met great people but you still haven't been able to enjoy much model railroading.
You move on to your adult life... and 15 yrs. later discover that your 7 yr. old son loves trains. A fire inside is rekindled and you decide to do for your son what your Dad wasn't able to do for you. You build a layout just like you had for your son so that he can enjoy trains and then start a small 4X8 layout. After about 3 years, you know why your Dad never finished your layout. You find it to be very time consuming and overwhelming. You read all of these articles and see all of these great pictures from people who have built these layouts and wonder why you can't even find time to get a small layout done.
By now you have probably figured out that this is my real life story, so let me continue.
My son was 10, and I realized that with a family and a job that requires lots of overtime I would probably end up dashing his dream of a completed model railroad. One day, however, I discovered that it was possible to hire somone to build a model railroad. Yes, it could be expensive but it was worth a look. In the end I ended up hiring Dunham Studios to build a very modest layout. Since May, my son and I have been able to truly enjoy at least one aspect of the hobby together... operating a layout.
I hesitated even posting this because these forums can be so negative and intimidating but felt strongly about sharing my story. Just a couple more comments: Yes, I could have built my own but I am a perfectionist and it would have never been completed. That is just reality. No, the one I bought is not perfect because I couldn't afford perfection. No, I'm not rich. I worked my butt off (as an industrial mechanic) to pay for it. Yes, no matter what any of you say I will still consider myself and my son to be model railroaders and will continue to enjoy the hobby in our own way!
And that should just about wrap this up.
Well said, sdturk01. Nothing like real people with real problems and priorities to put some petty peeves into perspective.
Let those who can do, let those who cannot pay if it is that important. What counts is the expected result... to enjoy toy trains.
sdturk01 wrote:Imagine loving trains since you were 2 yrs old. At the age of 9 (in 1975), you got a model railroad for Christmas that was a 4X8 piece of particle board with the standard Tyco scenery, a couple buildings and 2 trains. Unfortunately, that was the only completed layout you ever had until you were 39. Sure, your Dad tried his hardest to work with you to build a model railroad using the book "A Model Railroad that Grows" when you were a teenager but when you left home, there was still no track laid. At 17, you join a model railroad club. They have big plans, and are handlaying alot of track but you are young and have no experience. Then they decide to build a new building and begin again. Yes, you've met great people but you still haven't been able to enjoy much model railroading. You move on to your adult life... and 15 yrs. later discover that your 7 yr. old son loves trains. A fire inside is rekindled and you decide to do for your son what your Dad wasn't able to do for you. You build a layout just like you had for your son so that he can enjoy trains and then start a small 4X8 layout. After about 3 years, you know why your Dad never finished your layout. You find it to be very time consuming and overwhelming. You read all of these articles and see all of these great pictures from people who have built these layouts and wonder why you can't even find time to get a small layout done.By now you have probably figured out that this is my real life story, so let me continue.My son was 10, and I realized that with a family and a job that requires lots of overtime I would probably end up dashing his dream of a completed model railroad. One day, however, I discovered that it was possible to hire somone to build a model railroad. Yes, it could be expensive but it was worth a look. In the end I ended up hiring Dunham Studios to build a very modest layout. Since May, my son and I have been able to truly enjoy at least one aspect of the hobby together... operating a layout.I hesitated even posting this because these forums can be so negative and intimidating but felt strongly about sharing my story. Just a couple more comments: Yes, I could have built my own but I am a perfectionist and it would have never been completed. That is just reality. No, the one I bought is not perfect because I couldn't afford perfection. No, I'm not rich. I worked my butt off (as an industrial mechanic) to pay for it. Yes, no matter what any of you say I will still consider myself and my son to be model railroaders and will continue to enjoy the hobby in our own way!
Hi sdturk,
Nothing wrong at all with what you did.
I can fully understand working many hours, and wanting what you did.
There are just so many hours in a day, and so many days in a week.
You and your son are no less Model Railroaders than anyone else.
Personally I would hope if I had one built I could be present during part of it so as to learn how some things are done.
I've been working on mine for 5 years, and just FINALLY got my tables built!
3-6 foot by 8 foot tables.
Now I will start laying track.
I too worked many hours every week--14 to 16 hours everyday 5 days a week, plus take care of my home, do things with my friends and enjoy myother hobby, which is flying.
Maybe otherwise, your son would have grown up, and not had a complete layout, lost interest as well as yourself, and moved onto something else.
Don't worry about what others think and say, do what makes you happy!!!
If you and your son are having fun, and enjoying it together, GOOD FOR YOU GUYS!!!
Well back to work on the Pennsy!
Ed
Having witnessed the debut of Cal Winters' Florida East Coast double-deck layout, which was professionally built by the late Ross Allen at RailServe and then having the priveledge of participating in several operating sessions and also operating on Bob Cherrnay's HUGE O scale layout which was built by Bob and friends, both of which, have been featured in MR, I never gave it a thought one way, or the other. If it's a nice layout, then I want to see it.
Mark
In the midst of all the hand-wringing and soul-searching, my .
As long as there is one person who wants to run his Podunk and Northern trains into an accurate replica of Podunk Junction on his birthday (zero, first or any one thereafter) there will be at least one model railroader.
If he hit the lottery and can afford to have a team of professional model builders build Podunk Junction to his standards while he supervises (or takes a cruise in Indonesia,) that's fine.
If, like most of us, he undertakes the project of assembling Podunk Junction on pink (or blue, or purple with green polka-dots) foam, with flex track, commercial turnouts and kitbashed structures, that's fine.
If, like some of us, he slaps Podunk Junction together with sectional track on a ping-pong table, then switches his RTR cars to industries represented by shoeboxes, that's fine.
If, as some of the posters seem to fear, he has some professionals build his layout, tune his rolling stock, program a computer to operate EVERYTHING, so that he can relax in his La-Z-Boy and make everything go with one push of a button, then I'll worry!
Chuck (sometimes mistaken for Alfred E. Neumann)
You ought to read some old issues of MR sometime ... I was looking at an issue from 1963 and there was an interview in there with a professional model builder and they were asking him if scratchbuilding was dead and if there was too much ready-built stuff in the hobby today. Sound familiar? That was 40 years ago and yep, the hobby's dead now.
Of course, that was from the perspective of the hobby's early days back in the 1930s, where you had to *build everything*.
The point is, it's all relative. With the hobby's trend toward accurate prototype modeling, there's still plenty of things you have to build yourself since you can't buy accurate prototype models for *everything*.
Even if you pay someone to build it, its still being modeled, and somebody has to use craftsman skills to build it.
Yeh, what we need is to go back to the days when you had to build just about everything to be in the hobby. Do that, folks, and the hobby ranks will shrivel to a shadow of their current size overnight.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
I think it all boils down to this: Should MR be a showcase for professionals, or be for hobbyists?
There are professional model builders out there too. Why not strive only for perfection and showcase their efforts too? I'm sure that would really encourage newcomers into the hobby!