What has happened to the people in this hobby?

[Anonymous]

I suspect (and hope) that the engine smasher was blowing bloody nose bubbles shortly thereafter...

I just got back into the hobby in the last couple of years after about 20 years out of it. The most notable change I have noted (other than the great stuff that is available now, and how expensive it has gotten) is the rivet counting has gone wacky. As an example, one fellow wrote a letter that appeared in the NMRA Journel a couple of months back complaining about people making up unlikely and unbelievable names for the businesses on their layouts! Cut me a break! That's half the fun right there. I have become more determined to makeup as may silly names as I can think of. If John Allen were alive today, I suspect he would be derided up and down by the proto crowd and his work would never get published.

Guess I'll just keep goin' it alone.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear that, man I can't believe someone could get that angry over something like that. I am new to this hobby but have been involved in lots of other hobbies in my life, computers, salt water aquariums, and RC airplanes just to name a few so I have been to alot of "conventions" or "swap meets" and I think all hobbies have this problem. There are people who are into a hobby for fun and there are those who take it way to seriously. Thats unfortunate because it ruins it for others, one bad apple spoils the bunch and that happens in all facetts of life. I'm sure he got what was coming to him and don't let the incident get you down, like everyone else said, it's your hobby and you can do it your way, I would suggest avoiding public places where other jerk-offs can treat you the same way.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger

As a very avid and forthright supporter of this hobby, I am horrified to find out what happened to your model. Had that happened to me, several of my fellow model railroading friends and I (We also costume as mobsters when we are bored) would have made him dissapear quite suddenly. His bones would be found several years later out in the high mountains of Wyoming. Eaten on by bears.

What that person did was certainly out of line and I almost demand that my fellow sane model railroading compatriots (Now there could be valid arguments questioning my own sanity [8D] ) completely cut this guy off from his hobby resources. As for you Mr. Jeremy, I run a custom paint shop and as such am frequently ordering detail parts. I would be more than happy if any of your present suppliers cut you off to order the parts you need and have them shiped to you. If you are interested in this offer use the link below and email me and we will work out the details further. I must admit that I have been somewhat of a secret fan of the Rock Island and enjoy seeing their equipment modeled. Even if it is Dash-9s and SD70Ms.

James

I totally agree with you, greyhound. I would've taught this guy a lesson, too. Of course, his getting hurt (I know getting hurt sounds cheesy but we don't want to kill anyone here) wouldn't be slow pain. I'd tie him to the front of an EMD SD90 MAC and run him at about 25mph into a reefer.[}:)] That does sound evil and mean[:(], and I'd never do that, I just don't think it's fair to let someone else tell ya what to model and what not to. I like the Rock island just fine[^] and I think what you are doing is adventurous and creative[:)]. Keep on model'n!!![:D][8D][:D][:)][8D][:D][:)][:p]

[Anonymous]

P.S. how come you didn't do anthing to him?!!!!!

[Anonymous]

What a ***! I strongly suspect if that had happened to me, the perp would have needed medical attention to two of his accessories. The beauty of this hobby is that we get to model what we want, there is no modelling gestapo to make us stick to a party line. Model on and have fun.

[DTomajko]

I have never heard something as terrible as destroying a $100+ model just because of a non-prototype paint scheme.I hope that person had a meeting with a local magistrate.I wouldn't blame anyone for popping that guy in the nose but would regret lowering myself to that neanderthal's level.Here in Pa.,I have seen disdain shown folks modeling Penn Central instead of the much beloved PRR,but never anything like that! In a similar vein,I went to Joliet,Il. Union Station to do a little ralfanning in September.I had the pleasure of meeting several other fans and enjoyed discussoins of trains & other topics. Then a friend of one fan present arrived and upon learning of my modeling of Conrail & predecessors,began to deride and insult my choice at many opportunities during the next several hours,always followed by "just kidding".Once or twice is acceptable fooling around,but after a dozen times it was just insulting.Fortunately,Joliet Union Station is large enough that it was easy to distance myself from this gentleman and salvage my day.By the way,I happen to be a prototype modeler and resent the near constant reference to people like me as foaming,hateful,mean,and disapproving of others efforts. I have never derided anyones choice of enjoying this hobby and am glad to meet a fellow enthusiast. Many times I have learned a new fact or technique that has improved my modeling and I can only hope that I have done the same. I believe that the less than enjoyable experiences that we have all had are in the minority and not typical of the majority of our fraternity. Anyway, Jeremy, model the ROCK, PC or whatever brings you enjoyment.To paraphrase a famous quote:" I will defend to the end your right to model the road of your choice,whether I agree with you or not". Good luck and good modeling,Dan.

[Anonymous]

I didn't expect this kind of reaction to my post. I was reading some posts and replies that got me thinking about these experiences I've had. Yes there are a lot of rivet counters out there and I've about had it with them and they will get no good treatment from me. Just so everyone knows I did recover some of the costs of my model and after alot of work it still is seen on my railroad. Also at the risk of sounding like a bragger or of being a violent person I'm sure after all I went through after this that my train is running better than his nose. I'm not that kind of person but he just did the wrong thing and caught me off guard.

As far as the hobby shop issue, I still need parts. But, I have not seen this guy for some time. Maybe he has done this to someone a little more restraining than I. Funny for me to say considering the first guy but like I said I am really not a violent guy and I should have done things differently.

Thanks for the support,
Jeremy



Go Packers

[ironhorseman]

OK, I've GOT to say something here:

GROW UP PEOPLE! [:(!]

And I thought the mean grouchy types were only on the forums, now they're smashing our trains at shows and refusing to sell us parts.

Here at this very forum, find that "Wild West Masterpiece" topic.

Find that other topic where this guy states he's wealthy rich and can afford the lastest expensive models but is "concerned about his fellow modelers, particularly, the kids, who can't afford such stuff and thus are turned away." Listening to him you'd think it was the end of the world for the hobby.

Or go look into other posts were some members bash on other's for their ideas on modeling tips and techniques. I mean, come on, to each his own. There's more than one way to do something.

I can't tell you how many times I go to a train show only to see those layout opertors yelling at each and not talking to strangers.

What's even stranger is everyone here has something in common: the interest in trains and model trains, yet why are enemies being made in this hobby? "World's Greatest Hobby" my ***. Look it me, I've lowered myself to cussing. These old guys are acting like kids and even kids don't act like this.

This is America, we have the freedom to do what we want: The Right to Life, Liberty, and The PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. And even outside of America people don't face this kind of oppression.

I'll tell you what you can do. Most businesses have the right to refuse cutomers but in your case you could argue discrimination. Discrimination against one's beliefs. Call 60 Minutes or Dateline and take an undercover camera in to get the jerk clerck's reaction on tape. Or file a lawsuit. Or you can write a letter to the editor of your newspaper. Or you can spread the word that the hobby store doesn't believe freedom of choice and expression.

It's YOUR hobby and YOUR choice, nobody elses.

Some people just don't get along well with others and that's too bad, but they must understand is to respect other's property and ideas. Even if they don't like other's ways they can just say "I DON'T LIKE IT" and walk away. There's nothing wrong with this hobby, it's just certain people.

So, to revise a statement I made earlier:
"Support your local hobby store, but not when they don't support you"

[dharmon]

Aw man, he we were all feeling sorry for you and being supportive and such.....and then you had to go and do that go packers thing[:)]

[Anonymous]

In an age long ago before many of you were born we had people who built from scratch, a lobor of love if you will for each and every model made. These people went to great lenghts to be as accurate as was possible in their endeavors. And the results showed. People helped people. These kind of people are to be found today - you can identify them by their demeanor and spoken words.

Unfortunately in this day and age we have wannabe gravy suckin' idiot selfstyled experts who talk and act to cover up their ignorance.

Did you ever notice talkin' quits when you are modeling? That means the continuing talkin', rivet counting, criticising, loser is doin' what? Losing of course.

But in this unexpected happening there was really no time to react. Property damage resulted. Exercise your right and use the small claims court in your state. These types really squeal when you get into their pockets.

Fortunately, these types become known for what they are at some point. Must be a lonely life.

Now a really active animated conversation over some facet of model railroading I can really get into. You can learn alot from this type of interchange.

You have people here that you can interact with happily. Be well.

[Anonymous]

That's horrible; I can't believe that a "fellow" hobbyist could be so bold and crass. I hope a meteorite drops out of the sky and smashes every last item on his "perfect?" layout into tiny little crumbs!!!!

[Anonymous]

"STUFF THE RIVIT COUNTERS AND MODEL WHAT YOU WANT"

Rivit is actually spelled R-I-V-E-T. Just thought you should know that. Aside from that, I AM a rivet counter, but am also offended that someone could and would do that. My response if I saw what you did, would be "cool, that's a neat model." Rivet counting should not be about running down other peoples work, but bringing your own work to a higher standard.

[Anonymous]

Hey Juby, obviously you were dealing with the North End of a Southbound ***. I hope you got satisfaction for the beligerent destruction of your property.

It has been my expierence, to have or witness any destruction of ones personal property, that you obviously were in the lair of someone who wanted to try and sell you more equipment.[;)] I find the type of behaviour you describe as tantamount to felonious assault.

Truly it is amazing how far one in this hobby would carry his personal feelings for rivet counting, (No offense meant to genteel rivet counters out there[:D]), so as to wreak havoc on one who just enjoys his fantasy Ry., case in point; Malcom's Follie, as I call it.

I think this hobby is for anyone who wants to Model period.

If it was posted, I missed any action taken against the fool with a heavy hand. Please let us know what happened. I hope a lot.

[Anonymous]

As a modeler of three rail scale (or high rail) rivet counters need not come to my house. However i read MR, OGR, O-Scale, Fine Scale, Military Minuters, among all these forums. The common thread is improving my skill level in all i do. On some items i go pure scale and historical, but thoses are few and far between because 99% of the people could not tell the difference anyway. I have a three rail switching layout, with a U.P. H-16 sharing time with a PRR 0-8-0. Throw in my new Lakawanna trainmaster or my Deleware & Hudson RS-3, who also share yard time. Then here comes a K-line hudson pulling a string of NPR pullmans. My goal is to show great skill, with the variety that railroads offered. When my black widow gp-38 from S.P. comes around the bend while a 0-6-0 is switching below who cares. These are and always will be toys. And i perfer my little part of the world to have it's tongue firmly planted in cheek. Happy BIll

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carrman

"STUFF THE RIVIT COUNTERS AND MODEL WHAT YOU WANT"

Rivit is actually spelled R-I-V-E-T. Just thought you should know that. Aside from that, I AM a rivet counter, but am also offended that someone could and would do that. My response if I saw what you did, would be "cool, that's a neat model." Rivet counting should not be about running down other peoples work, but bringing your own work to a higher standard.

When your typing angry, you dont use the spell check.

The term rivet-counter has an unfortunate negative connotation that carries a stigma with it. Sorry, if you feel like your getting slighted by the term. I personally try to model as accurately to reality as I can but I will never use the term to describe myself. I'm just too damn ireverrent in my modeling to be so precise to any prototype. It just takes too much fun away from me.

[vsmith]

Juby,

I hope the shear volumn of positive postings you have recieved on this forum help to sway you to continue with your hobby done your way.

Keep'um steaming. The-Old-Alligator-Mouth, Vic.

[Anonymous]

Just as any other hobbies people are either so critical about if its prototypical that you can't be in the same room together or they are open mined and like others that think out side the box. I am also into astronomy and I had a $3500 telescope and there are clubs out there that think your an idiot unless you scratch build your own scope. I think the opion part of hobbies has mostly died I think what your doing is great your using your ablities to paint something you would like to see. I don't see why anyone would bash you on that when people paint their models in railroads that have never existed.

hope you find like minded people,
Ross Waters

[GerFust]

Right now, though, all I have is some old stuff from when I was a kid and a track plan on paper for a free-lance railroad. Someday, I might be a rivit counter; and I hope I don't forget where I came from.

That being said, yeah, I've met my share of jerks. There are two model railroad clubs in town. One is actively recruiting members, the other wouldn't give me the time of day.

I've gone to a couple of model railroad shows/swap-meets. I was looking forward to one show in Novi, Mi, with workshops, slides shows, and many, many layouts to view. It was specifically directed at families. People basically let their kids run wild, monopolizing the hands-on displays, pushing other kids out of the way of layouts, going in the out passage to displays, carrying the stools around with them so other kids couldn't see the layouts, etc. One kid even took the throttle from my son at an engine drag race display. It was amazing! Some staff from MR was there. You'd think they'd say something. I won't be back.

The swap show in Lansing. MI was much nicer and my son and I had a nice time. Other than people trying to sell junk for new prices, we enjoyed ourselves. There was less to do, though, since it was more focused on selling than workshops or displays.

-Jer

[ironhorseman]

This "rivet-counter" business looks like a job for Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Checking at their website the term "rivet-counter" is not in there.

I see in the newspaper's business section today the term "McJob" is going to be in the 11th edition of the dictionary, and as often as the term "rivet-counter" is used around here maybe it's time to have it added to the dictionary, too?

The impression I get from the use of this term is that a "rivet-counter" is not only someone who counts the rivet's and other fine details of scale models but also gets upset when a locomotive doesn't have the exact number of rivets precisely spaced apart and is not only upset at a manufacturer's error but also is upset at other amateur hobbyists for minute mistakes.

Well, knock me out 'cause honey, I shrunk the kids. I don't know if some people will ever be satisfied without a shrinking machine.

I do have every respect for someone who takes the time to try to get it right and as close as possible, but when someone criticizes other's work or "has a cow" because the manufacturer made a minute mistake and thinks the whole world has to hear about it I loose all respect and admiration for their skills of having a detailed eyed. Instead they have a cold heart. Yes, I notice little things, too, but I move on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Aw man, he we were all feeling sorry for you and being supportive and such.....and then you had to go and do that go packers thing[:)]

I agree[:D]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Aw man, he we were all feeling sorry for you and being supportive and such.....and then you had to go and do that go packers thing[:)]

I agree[:D]

Oh come on now, we know you're really a bunch of closet Cheeder Heads...[:p]

[Anonymous]

I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing rivet counters. Just the ones who are so full of themselves that it can make one less interested in the hobby. I still love the hobby I just don't go out looking to interact with other modelers. The fact that there is no train clubs around here that I know of. I do a little semi rivet counting myself. I have several CNW and some SP tunnel motors that I've modeled from pictures and did find it enjoying. I just don't see the sense in being so tunnel visioned, I just want to enjoy as much of the hobby as is out there. Anyway the PACKERS ROCK even though they aren't doing so well this year. Don't get me started on football.

Thanks,
Jeremy

GO PACKERS [:D]

[Anonymous]

Just stumbled across this thread and want to throw my two cents from the point of view of a FRANK rivet counter. Prototype modeling reflects my temperment and my interest. I, like any other sane person, am appalled at such behavior. I personally never touch another's work without either a request or an invitation. None of us are drafted into this hobby and surely there is sufficient scope in it for each of us to follow our own intrests and inclinations. I trust the idiot-SOB was forced to compensate you for the damage and wish you well in your continuing enjoyment of model railroading.

[Anonymous]

I tend to agree with most of the posts here. I model Japanese Bullet trains and Chessie System. Some of my fellow club members get slightly bent out of shape when I run the bullet trains on our proto-North American layout. (I am trying to build a Japanese Module)

[Anonymous]

Prairiegopher,

I enjoyed your post. I can only imagine that dispatcher hustling the locals and livestock off the track for that Bullet.

A story regarding a small incident on a layout... There was a man who loved his trains, and the other members decided to fill a small box with bolts, washers, nails etc. They snuck up behind him and waited until the victim was totally focused on a damage free coupling of his very incritate freight car and dropped it just as the couplers connected.

The reaction of the victim was to jerk upright and throw both hands out as if to catch a falling baby. It took about an hour for the laughing to subside however you could feel the love in there.

But willful destruction is not tolearated. And this is a Hobby, run what you want to. IF they dont like it, there is the door.

Lee

[jsanchez]

Gee's the prototype shortline railroads around here like to paint their locomotives in the schemes of now defunct railroads, a modeler should be able to do the same,I do not understand why some person with no life would have a need to damage your creation. I think he needs some serious professional help.

[preceng]

I agree with many of my fellow posters above. i enjoy this hobby for myself. That's why I started and continue in it. i do love the people I meet, and the people I interact with in these forums, but for those that find my preferences (or those of others) upsetting - I don't care. The point of this sport is to relax, have fun, and escape from the other (real) world that these opinions unfortanately do matter.

[METRO]

Wow that is totally beyond imagination what that guy did to your engine! I'd like to think that people in this hobby are more mature than that! It really sounds like a high school bully.

I guess I am a bit of an outsider in that I model a real commuter line in a totally fictional city. It's my world and that's how I want it to be. There is a line from a british band that comes to mind here "Stop dreaming, people who say that are blaspheming!"

As a sign of support for you and your line though, I have some Dash-9s I have been meaning to paint and detail, and while I was going to put them all into CN colours I think one of em will be sporting the big R instead.

Keep the dream everyone, you all have your world to build, make em wonderous.

[vw-bug]

I know this sounds a little if, but what is the shady gents name that decided he was god and could live with your excellent modeling skills. I just wonder so that if any of the rest of us come across this get that we can treat him with the respect he deserves, NONE. I think everyone is right, this is like art we are not out to perfectly recreate life at 1/87 size. But word does travel and ignrance & brutish behavior like this should not go unpunished. I think it is definitely our responsability to police our own group. We need to tell the outlandish, replicating, Rivit counters that this hobby is about fun and if they want to ruin the fun for us we can ruin it for them, too. I can't belive people can be so damn petty, it sickens me!

This is a sad day for me as I can't believe I could be in suck anger over something that I have love since I was a child. I guess it goes to show humans can do wonderful thing, but there is always some one out there who wants to ruin it for the rest.

[Anonymous]

So, Juby, What was the outcome of the heavy handed dolt? Did you get satisfaction for your ruined property? Please, befudled minds want to know.