Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Realistic Or Not Realistic At all.

3673 views
32 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 86 posts
Realistic Or Not Realistic At all.
Posted by NSWRDivision80061 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:06 PM

Heyy Everyone,

It always confuses me when i see peoples layouts, and they have boxcar after boxcar of the same roadname. too me, that is not realistic at all. a mixed freight train includes all different kinds of cars in all different road names. When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname. No offence too anyone because modeling is all about what you want too see, but this is my opinion.

Thankyou again,

   Keith

- Working on a 2x4 in N scale.
  • Member since
    November 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,720 posts
Posted by MAbruce on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:22 PM

Running all boxcars of the same roadname is prototypical in certain circumstances (and/or era).  However, I don't think it occurs nearly as much as a typical unit train (like a coal train).     

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Phoenixville, PA
  • 3,495 posts
Posted by nbrodar on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:27 PM

In some cases all one road name can be prototypical...unit coal, grain or ore trains.  Express reefer trains also tended to be solid roadnames.

However, it is more realistic to vary the roadnames in most trains.

Nick

Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Utica, OH
  • 4,000 posts
Posted by jecorbett on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:45 PM
 NSWRDivision80061 wrote:

Heyy Everyone,

It always confuses me when i see peoples layouts, and they have boxcar after boxcar of the same roadname. too me, that is not realistic at all. a mixed freight train includes all different kinds of cars in all different road names. When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname. No offence too anyone because modeling is all about what you want too see, but this is my opinion.

Thankyou again,

   Keith

I think few modelers run 50+ car trains, even N-scalers. That requires a large layout. Whether a train would realistically be entirely from on road would depend on circumstances. A branchline that receives freight entirely from shippers entirely on the home road could realistically have all the cars from one road. A mainline freight would be far more likely to have interchange traffic from other railroads so in that case, it probably wouldn't be realistic unless it was a unit train.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:49 PM
 NSWRDivision80061 wrote:

 When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname. Thankyou again,

   Keith

KCS does it all the time with unit coal and gravel trains.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Metro East St. Louis
  • 5,743 posts
Posted by simon1966 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:55 PM
The vast majority of us are not slaves to total realism.  A lot of us don't have deep knowledge of the time or place that we are nominally modelling.  I have great admiration for those that have the patience and knowledge to accurately model a single car correctly down to the last detail, let alone a complete train.  We each have to set our own boundaries as to what is acceptable.  I have a nominal cut off in the mid to late 50's, but there are locos on my layout that go beyond this.  When I started back in this hobby I assumed that each RR pulled its own freight cars.  After a little research I discovered the concept of interchanges and started to add freight cars that came from interchange roads.  In doing this I discovered that the research and historical aspect of the hobby is now one of my favorite parts.  I suspect that many experience a similar enlightenment as they learn more about their subject RR.  As this happens our standards change and we modify our approach.  So writing as someone that ran a train for a while with nothing but CB&Q frieght, I would now agree that it does not look like any photo I have ever seen, but I did not know any better at the time.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:56 PM

  I think it depends on the area/era.  My 1950's era layout has at least 50% of the freight cars painted/lettered for the Milwaukee Road.  And 50% of those cars are box cars.  Most of the cars are oxide/box car red as well.  If you are modeling an extra train in a grain rush, lots of 40' box cars would be in order(usually 'home road' cars if possible).  So, that solid train of box cars may not be all that strange.

Jim

 

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Missouri
  • 366 posts
Posted by NYCentral1 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:58 PM
Well, it may not be the case most of the time...but recently I have seen several Union Pacific trains go through my area with almost new looking all UP hoppers (30+).
  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Ogden UT
  • 1,055 posts
Posted by PA&ERR on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:58 PM

Not all railroads have connections to the "outside world". I model the White Pass and Yukon Route, a narrow gauge line that ran from the port of Skagway Alaska to the interior of Canada's Yukon Territory and has no connections with other railroads. While some might think that such a line would only run short freights, during the 60s and 70s, it was not unusual for the WP&YR to run 60 car trains using modern diesel locomotives.

Likewise the Alaska Railroad's only interchange with other railroads is via a rail barge connection to the lower 48. Prior to that all the cars on the ARR would be ARR cars.   

However, this would be the exception rather than the rule.

In the book "How to Operate Your Model Railroad" Bruce Chubb provides some guidance to come up with a plausable mix of road names based on the railroad you model and the railroads your road interchanges with.

-George 

"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:00 PM
Keith,You home(the railroad you model) road cars should be at least 50%.Like all things there are exception such as short lines that own no freight cars..The cars they use for loads should be their Class 1 partner,private owners and lessors such as UTLX,GATX,RBOX,RailGon(both are now part of TTX)TTX,ACF etc.Now inbound loads can come from any road.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 86 posts
Posted by NSWRDivision80061 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:11 PM
Yes you are all right. But basically what i am saying, when i stand and watch a huge mixed fright come rushing by me, ive noticed that most cars are not the same, maybe 5-6 railbox's but most are just all different road names. that was point, thankyou for the responses though, this has really got me thinking!
- Working on a 2x4 in N scale.
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:21 PM
 NSWRDivision80061 wrote:
When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname.
About 20 minutes ago.  On the joint line allmost all the trains running south from the Wyoming coal mines are composed of all cars of the same road name.  I agree this would be the exception.  I did once see a grain train of all totally brand new Burlington Northern Santa Fe cars.  I thought it was quite a sight.
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:21 PM
I always scenic my layout well but I always throw a little whimsy in somewhere. One layout I built back in the 80's had a large industrial area on it that was very well detailed. Over at the back left corner of this was a tree line with a clearing beyond. In the clearing was a bunch of kids playing 'spin the bottle'. On another section of the layout, close to a small yard, was an interlocking tower with a man standing outside the door of the second floor. There was a dinosaur looking at him as if he was lunch.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:36 PM

I think there is room for all make-ups of trains.  Here in Canada, CP and CN trains have mixed road names in tow, but you will surely understand if I tell you that 30-60% of any one train will comprise CP or CN rolling stock.  It is the nature of the beast.

With all of the prototype research (more like interested reading) that I have done over the past two years, with seeing what other modellers have installed, and in reading general discussions here, I decided early that my trains would be all mixed up.  However...Clown [:o)]...my PRR J1 is at this very moment sitting on a siding with 12 H2a hoppers of the N&W type, every one of them from B&O..cuz the price for two 6-packs from Outlet Direct was right.

(ducking, with worried look on his face)

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,299 posts
Posted by Dave-the-Train on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:46 PM

I love the elegence of a unit train snaking along -yes... that is "elegence"!

I also like mixed up muddles with something of everything.

In between a block of cars in a mix up is good and a single odd shape or different livery in a unit train is great.

I like TRAINS! Tongue [:P]

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Good ol' USA
  • 9,642 posts
Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:47 PM

Re: Boxcars,

I've seen 1940s photos of boxcar unit trains.  Mostly 40 footers, they looked impressive. ( NYC, UP, and Pennsy)

By the 1970s, it was more common to see certain freight trains having groups of boxcars with the same road name. Auto parts and packaged lumber/forestry products could be seen here on the east coast back in the 1970s.  Was really cool seeing trains with batches of Southern ("Gives a Green Light to Innovations") and bright yellow RailBox cars cruising by. 

Today, with intermodals, unit grain, and unit mineral trains, long boxcar trains are not common. A reasonably close exception would be the TROPICANA JUICE train run by CSX from the Florida west coast to northern destinations.  It's a solid train of mechanical and cryogenic reefers.  Interestingly enough, once the cars reach their destination, they're returned in batches on southbound CSX freights.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 2:20 PM

Model Railroader ran a good story on this a few times, most people that are into prototype operations use the following as a guide to what runs on their layouts. I modeled the Soo, so about 55% of my cars should be Soo, the real railroad wants to haul their own cars as long and as far as they can. But you mix-up that 55% said if your modeling the 50's about 38% of your cars would be boxcars, then 15% gons, 5% flat cars, 25% refers,some coal cars. Then your going to have 35% of other midwestern cars from interchange, CB&Q, Milw RD, CNW, Rock, etc.

  The rest of the cars would be a mix of east, west, and southern cars. But now model the Soo in said 1980, your going to have about 10% boxcars and 35% Covered hoppers for grain, why?

  1950 almost all grain moved in 40ft boxcars by 1980 almost all grain was in covered hoppers and the 40ft boxcar was in anew car somewhere.

  See it just depends on you if you want to run 20 different roadnames on one train thats up to you. Thats whats nice about this hobby your free to do what you want not what Joe Blow wants. But if you go to someones layout and you see that they are running a more Prototypical

mix of cars you can bet they have proably done alot of reseach to find what the railroad they model really ran and to where.

  Also starting in the mid 80's came the leasing boom, where some real railroads that only had said 5 miles of track, owned 500 50ft brightly colored boxcars and they where all over the place. This made it so the big railroads like BN, NS no longer had to own and repair all those cars themselfs.

    Theres alot more to it then just running a train around in a oval, if you want there to be. Railroading is the most researched industry there is, there 1000's of books out on own the real railroads operate.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 2:44 PM

AntonioFP45,There are long boxcar trains left..I see 2-3 50-60  boxcar trains a day.These trains are 60 foot auto part boxcars.

I still see hundreds of boxcars in a weeks time to include those old yellow RailBox cars..Big Smile [:D]

 

Fear not those old Southern boxcars are still proclaiming Southern "Gives a Green Light to Innovations"..I see them every day on the NS as well as NW,N&W cars. 

I seen a full blooded SP gon the other day-NO UP shield! I even see some old D&TSL cover hoppers at least  twice a month.

There is a lot of those old fallen flag cars left if one cares to spend time track side and observe the passing freight trains.

 

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 86 posts
Posted by NSWRDivision80061 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:27 PM
I too am guilty of this act, i have 9 southern serves the south boxcars, and 9 other xouthern boxcars, and when you run them together in one train, yes it looks great, but you dont normally see that, maybe its just where i live.
- Working on a 2x4 in N scale.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:30 PM
 fargo wrote:

Model Railroader ran a good story on this a few times, most people that are into prototype operations use the following as a guide to what runs on their layouts. I modeled the Soo, so about 55% of my cars should be Soo, the real railroad wants to haul their own cars as long and as far as they can. But you mix-up that 55% said if your modeling the 50's about 38% of your cars would be boxcars, then 15% gons, 5% flat cars, 25% refers,some coal cars. Then your going to have 35% of other midwestern cars from interchange, CB&Q, Milw RD, CNW, Rock, etc.

  The rest of the cars would be a mix of east, west, and southern cars. But now model the Soo in said 1980, your going to have about 10% boxcars and 35% Covered hoppers for grain, why?

  1950 almost all grain moved in 40ft boxcars by 1980 almost all grain was in covered hoppers and the 40ft boxcar was in anew car somewhere.

Also a good idea is to base your fleet on the type of freight your railroad hauled. For example a railroad that deals primarily in hauling coal probably wouldn't own too many livestock cars so you probably should have maybe only one or two if any.   

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:32 PM
 NSWRDivision80061 wrote:

Heyy Everyone,

It always confuses me when i see peoples layouts, and they have boxcar after boxcar of the same roadname. too me, that is not realistic at all. a mixed freight train includes all different kinds of cars in all different road names. When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname. No offence too anyone because modeling is all about what you want too see, but this is my opinion.

Thankyou again,

   Keith

Others have mentioned a variety of possible reasons for an entire train to carry one road name - or even be made up of cars of a single design.  Here's one you probably never considered.

Almost all of the cars on my layout have no visible indication of ownership.  No, I'm not running the Undecorated and Plywood Pacific.  My paint jobs are prototypical.  When the railroad is a government monopoly and everybody knows it, there's no need to advertise that all the rolling stock belongs to the Japan National Railways.

Well, not quite all.  About half the coal hoppers and a few other cars (not in interchange service) belong to the Tomikawa Valley Railway - and trains on the TTT are solid blocks of company-owned cars more often than not.

If you pick your prototype with care, it's easy to arrange for all the cars to belong to one company.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Good ol' USA
  • 9,642 posts
Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:53 PM
 BRAKIE wrote:

AntonioFP45,There are long boxcar trains left..I see 2-3 50-60  boxcar trains a day.These trains are 60 foot auto part boxcars.

I still see hundreds of boxcars in a weeks time to include those old yellow RailBox cars..Big Smile [:D]

 

Fear not those old Southern boxcars are still proclaiming Southern "Gives a Green Light to Innovations"..I see them every day on the NS as well as NW,N&W cars. 

I seen a full blooded SP gon the other day-NO UP shield! I even see some old D&TSL cover hoppers at least  twice a month.

There is a lot of those old fallen flag cars left if one cares to spend time track side and observe the passing freight trains.

Thanks Brakie.  It is good news that solid boxcar trains are not gone yet.  But are the cars on the autoparts trains you're seeing just one road name or is it a variety of names?

I'm glad that those "Green Light" cars are still rolling around in service.  Here in my neck of the woods, they and the RailBox cars were a dime-a-dozen 20 years back. Now I rarely ever see them.

PeaceCool [8D] 

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:56 AM

AntonioFP45,Those 60 foot boxcars are lettered for NS CR (some with  PRR),CSX(some with NYC) and some NW,Southern and few 50' foot RBOX..

This morning I saw my first BNSF 50' "swoosh" boxcar.Tongue [:P]

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:23 AM

 NO -- in real life freight they are not all the same . It's just some only want or collect a certain line and that's all they buy . No one can tell you they are and have seen any actual train on the tracks . That's what I used to love to do as a kid read all the different names on the cars . My grandfather lived very close to the freight yards and main tracks at Cumberland , Maryland and I'd run down everytime one would come down the tracks . Plus some were new looking and some old and battered . But I won't age or batter my diecast cars for love or money ... Angel [angel]

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Alexandria, VA
  • 847 posts
Posted by StillGrande on Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:17 PM

Got caught by a CSX manefest this morning that had 22 Railbox cars in a row before there was a loaded flat, followed by more Railbox, then one NS box, then more Railbox.  A few other car types sprinkled in at the front and rear. 

 There have been several articles, some recent, about the "proper" mix of roadnames for different eras. 

Dewey "Facts are meaningless; you can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true! Facts, schmacks!" - Homer Simpson "The problem is there are so many stupid people and nothing eats them."
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Under The Streets of Los Angeles
  • 1,150 posts
Posted by Metro Red Line on Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:29 PM

It greatly varies but I would tend to go with a train having about 60% the same roadname and the rest others. On the other extreme, I don't want my train to look like a Tyco train set, where each car was of a different roadname. 

There's lots of variations of course.  At least in the past 25 years, most hopper and tank cars don't generally fall under a railroad name but an industry (i.e. ADM covered hoppers, etc). And let's not forget the abundance of TTX intermodal cars on the rails.  

Of course if you do the modern era, the "same roadname" would mean pre-merger roads, like having SP, Rio Grande, MoPac and Cotton Belt cars on a UP train, or BN and ATSF cars on a BNSF train. I always take that into consideration. 

And even if you do have "same roadname" consists, don't forget that most railroads have multiple schemes for their rolling stock. A UP freight would have both armour yellow and boxcar red boxcars, carrying all their slogans from "We Can Handle It" to "We Deliver" to "Building America." 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Columbia, TN
  • 548 posts
Posted by Walter Clot on Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:49 PM

I've seen it both ways.  In 1964-66 I lived 100 ft. off the SF main line into Ft. Worth.  I saw lots of SF box cars, but there were also others in there.

When I run my trains, I like to have 50% to 75% from the line of the engine and a mix of other roads.

For my grandkids I have a train of gondolas loaded with 2 or 3 dinosaures each.Clown [:o)]

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Vicksburg, Michigan
  • 2,303 posts
Posted by Andrew Falconer on Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:26 PM

The only times that I have seen 50+ Boxcars of the same roadname being moved in a solid train since 1980 was either to be scrapped or to be sent to another railroad under new ownership.

New Covered Hopper, Center Partition Flat Cars, and new Intermodal Cars will move in unit trains from the builder to the owner-operator railroad over other railroads.

Andrew

Andrew

Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Pisa, IT
  • 1,474 posts
Posted by RR Redneck on Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:32 PM
Personally, I dont care if something on my layout is prototypical or not. If I feel that one of my geeps looks good with high cube boxcars, I run it that way when given half a chance.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: THE FAR, FAR REACHES OF THE WILD, WILD WEST!
  • 3,672 posts
Posted by R. T. POTEET on Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:07 PM
 NSWRDivision80061 wrote:

Heyy Everyone,

It always confuses me when i see peoples layouts, and they have boxcar after boxcar of the same roadname. too me, that is not realistic at all. a mixed freight train includes all different kinds of cars in all different road names. When was the last time you all saw a freight train with 50+ cars of the same roadname. No offence too anyone because modeling is all about what you want too see, but this is my opinion.

Thankyou again,

   Keith



The only solid block I ever encountered was a train of PFE reefers on the SP in northern Nevada in the mid-60s.  It was impressive but it had struggled through snow and mud in Donner and it was pretty dirty.

About twenty years later after the WP acquisition I was on old US91 south of Roberts, Idaho  - down near a place called Bassett(?) - when I stumbled onto a northbound with umpteen hundred and lebendy-leben UP boxes; UP used to put on a helper set in Idaho Falls balanced about three quarters of the way into the train and so-help-me those UP boxes extended almost all the way back to the helper units.  Finally there was a short stretch of WP cars breaking the monotony of UP lettering.

This was too good to pass up so, much to the chagrin of my (then) wife, I zipped onto the Interstate at the Lewisville exit and raced north at 70 plus - this was still 55 mph time and about three miles south of Hamer the poor slob ahead of me, whom I had been gaining on for twenty-miles, got pulled over.  Anyway I got into Hamer and set up for a long three quarters shot and here she came.  Click!!! And then pulled against the end of the roll and all I could do was stand back and watch!!!

A good ninety percent of that train was UP and WP lettered cars and virtually all the non-UP cars were behind the helpers.

Don't I remember a famous shot - it may have been a publicity photo as opposed to a railfan's shot - of a NYC freight with a solid block of Pacemaker cars???

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!