Safety Valve wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote: Safety Valve wrote: 3railguy wrote:The BLI dealer near me, Engine House Services - Green Bay, got a slew of BLI and PCM engines a few weeks ago just like in the Factory Direct ad and has them priced like Factory Direct. This tells dealers had the opportunity to take advantage of the excess inventory.Excess inventory does not exist in this hobby.Yes you can get the "Old" stuff with big flanges and coffee can motors etc... but none of the new stuff on demand. I can't blame a dealer for asking list price for a hot new product, but the ones that do not sell will end up with discounts. The LHS has to make a living or they will go be gone. I was surprised Factory Direct Trains offered the Big Boys without sound for the very low price of $325.00. I ordered one and received it very quickly. I prefer the model without sound since I have one of the PCM Big Boys with the PCM sound. The sound for the Big Boy had to be reloaded with the correct whistle and bell to sound like a Union Pacific Big Boy. This was very disappointing to purchase the PCM engine believing it had prototype sound and hearing what sounded like a live steam model whistle and bell. You are not the only one considering sound re-programming. I am working on getting the Reading T1 from PCM re-programmed with what is supposed to be sounds from the real life engine itself, not what was on another model.I thought the PCM Big boy sounded better than the Genesis version when I compared the two on the MR website videos.
CAZEPHYR wrote: Safety Valve wrote: 3railguy wrote:The BLI dealer near me, Engine House Services - Green Bay, got a slew of BLI and PCM engines a few weeks ago just like in the Factory Direct ad and has them priced like Factory Direct. This tells dealers had the opportunity to take advantage of the excess inventory.Excess inventory does not exist in this hobby.Yes you can get the "Old" stuff with big flanges and coffee can motors etc... but none of the new stuff on demand. I can't blame a dealer for asking list price for a hot new product, but the ones that do not sell will end up with discounts. The LHS has to make a living or they will go be gone. I was surprised Factory Direct Trains offered the Big Boys without sound for the very low price of $325.00. I ordered one and received it very quickly. I prefer the model without sound since I have one of the PCM Big Boys with the PCM sound. The sound for the Big Boy had to be reloaded with the correct whistle and bell to sound like a Union Pacific Big Boy. This was very disappointing to purchase the PCM engine believing it had prototype sound and hearing what sounded like a live steam model whistle and bell.
Safety Valve wrote: 3railguy wrote:The BLI dealer near me, Engine House Services - Green Bay, got a slew of BLI and PCM engines a few weeks ago just like in the Factory Direct ad and has them priced like Factory Direct. This tells dealers had the opportunity to take advantage of the excess inventory.Excess inventory does not exist in this hobby.Yes you can get the "Old" stuff with big flanges and coffee can motors etc... but none of the new stuff on demand.
3railguy wrote:The BLI dealer near me, Engine House Services - Green Bay, got a slew of BLI and PCM engines a few weeks ago just like in the Factory Direct ad and has them priced like Factory Direct. This tells dealers had the opportunity to take advantage of the excess inventory.
Excess inventory does not exist in this hobby.
Yes you can get the "Old" stuff with big flanges and coffee can motors etc... but none of the new stuff on demand.
I can't blame a dealer for asking list price for a hot new product, but the ones that do not sell will end up with discounts. The LHS has to make a living or they will go be gone. I was surprised Factory Direct Trains offered the Big Boys without sound for the very low price of $325.00. I ordered one and received it very quickly.
I prefer the model without sound since I have one of the PCM Big Boys with the PCM sound. The sound for the Big Boy had to be reloaded with the correct whistle and bell to sound like a Union Pacific Big Boy. This was very disappointing to purchase the PCM engine believing it had prototype sound and hearing what sounded like a live steam model whistle and bell.
You are not the only one considering sound re-programming. I am working on getting the Reading T1 from PCM re-programmed with what is supposed to be sounds from the real life engine itself, not what was on another model.
I thought the PCM Big boy sounded better than the Genesis version when I compared the two on the MR website videos.
Safety Valve
The PCM chuff is much better until higher speeds, but the Genesis whistle has 18 selections, and two are dead on for the Big Boy. The Genesis chuff may be the worst ever for a steam model and the DCC is certifiable as the worst drive to date. I have already started replacing the sound and drive with Zimo DCC and a Tsunami sound for my Genesis models. They are best of the available combinations today for my money.
The reprogramming has not been easy to get the whistle totally correct, but the Bell from the 3985 recording really made the PCM sound great. The PCM generator sound also had to be reprogrammed to allow it to stay on after the first five seconds of opertion. PCM only played the tubo generator sound for five seconds as the headlight was being turned on.
jondrd wrote: OTM, A recurring thread on the forum when modelers complain about company XYZ's product is to make your complaints known to the manufacturer and not just to fellow modelers. That being said, do LHS's have an association? If so, why not have the association voice strong concerns about predatory "clear out the inventory sales" by manufacturers(ie BLI/PCM in this instance). If not, do you as a retailer let the manufacturer know in no uncertain terms that these blowout sales are causing you to take a loss on your shelf inventory? Additionally, being undercut by the manufacturer will leave you no recourse but to discontinue stocking said manufacturers products. I have made several entries on this forum since my conversation on 28th January with the owner of BLI/PCM/FDT at the Big-E Train Show in West Springfield, MA.(Kudos to Amherst Railway Society, Inc. for annually organizing this show) Part of my conversation with him led into pricing. According to him BLI will now do business via a reservations per announced model process;if a given "announced intention to produce model" does not generate sufficient support to justify the investment necessary for production it will not be produced. However, if it does garner the necessary support it will be scheduled for production. Now the tricky part: when a reservations justified model goes into production it will be for a quantity that is reservations plus some incremental quantity. The incremental is marketing realization that some customers may not be able at reservations time to make the commitment for one reason or another. Also some modelers who would like to purchase the "going into production" model may have been out of the loop re model announcement(I have been informed via this very forum of announced models that I was unaware of in spite of regular viewing of manufacturer's websites and the monthly read of Model Railroader) So.....the owner says this is the new business model and it would seem that this new approach would offer the LHS some respite from barn burner sales. What about FDT? BLI's newest corporate creation would seem to fly in the face of this reservations required business model. Maybe not. It is possible that no matter how proficient, experienced and clairvoyent one's marketing unit may be they'll never hit the exact number the market demands for a given model. Some production runs will miss on the low side and others will shoot over the target. My conversation with the owner was simply this modeler asking some questions about BLI and PCM products that veered off into other things re BLI. The bottom line? Maybe this new approach will reestablish and sustain good relations with the local retailer and will protect the LHS from excess inventory sales. FDT would only be having product when marketing erred on the high side-even then LHS has only been selling reserved items. Last point, BLI owner did allude to the big closeouts houses as not being a preferred vehicle for moving product because essentially the manufacturer winds up in the same "leaky" boat as you the local retailer(ie "Hey, guys I've got to make a buck too!") I guess we'll see what truly transpires. Hope you guys do in fact benefit from this approach-as much as the modeler likes to save a buck the savings can't indefinitely come out of someone's hide without an adverse effect on the hobby. Jon
OTM,
A recurring thread on the forum when modelers complain about company XYZ's product is to make your complaints known to the manufacturer and not just to fellow modelers. That being said, do LHS's have an association? If so, why not have the association voice strong concerns about predatory "clear out the inventory sales" by manufacturers(ie BLI/PCM in this instance). If not, do you as a retailer let the manufacturer know in no uncertain terms that these blowout sales are causing you to take a loss on your shelf inventory? Additionally, being undercut by the manufacturer will leave you no recourse but to discontinue stocking said manufacturers products.
I have made several entries on this forum since my conversation on 28th January with the owner of BLI/PCM/FDT at the Big-E Train Show in West Springfield, MA.(Kudos to Amherst Railway Society, Inc. for annually organizing this show) Part of my conversation with him led into pricing. According to him BLI will now do business via a reservations per announced model process;if a given "announced intention to produce model" does not generate sufficient support to justify the investment necessary for production it will not be produced. However, if it does garner the necessary support it will be scheduled for production. Now the tricky part: when a reservations justified model goes into production it will be for a quantity that is reservations plus some incremental quantity. The incremental is marketing realization that some customers may not be able at reservations time to make the commitment for one reason or another. Also some modelers who would like to purchase the "going into production" model may have been out of the loop re model announcement(I have been informed via this very forum of announced models that I was unaware of in spite of regular viewing of manufacturer's websites and the monthly read of Model Railroader)
So.....the owner says this is the new business model and it would seem that this new approach would offer the LHS some respite from barn burner sales. What about FDT? BLI's newest corporate creation would seem to fly in the face of this reservations required business model. Maybe not. It is possible that no matter how proficient, experienced and clairvoyent one's marketing unit may be they'll never hit the exact number the market demands for a given model. Some production runs will miss on the low side and others will shoot over the target. My conversation with the owner was simply this modeler asking some questions about BLI and PCM products that veered off into other things re BLI. The bottom line? Maybe this new approach will reestablish and sustain good relations with the local retailer and will protect the LHS from excess inventory sales. FDT would only be having product when marketing erred on the high side-even then LHS has only been selling reserved items. Last point, BLI owner did allude to the big closeouts houses as not being a preferred vehicle for moving product because essentially the manufacturer winds up in the same "leaky" boat as you the local retailer(ie "Hey, guys I've got to make a buck too!") I guess we'll see what truly transpires.
Hope you guys do in fact benefit from this approach-as much as the modeler likes to save a buck the savings can't indefinitely come out of someone's hide without an adverse effect on the hobby.
Jon
Hi Jon - we sort of have an association or two. I'm not a member of one, as ... and this is my opinion only ... I have not seen the necessity of being part of one as a "smaller" shop or a shop that is mainly selling one line. The retail associations seem to be geared toward the bigger, multiple line stores with employees...the LHS owners forum I belong to is kinda the same way. It's been helpful, however, to be a part of, just like this one, information and perception-wise. But there is not, say, a model train shop owners association.
I think, and again this is just my impression, that there has been plenty of concerns voiced to the manufacturers over the years and some of us have the idea that it just doesn't matter to the manufacturers what we think.
A lot of this topic about product availability and clearance sales all comes down to...hopefully I can say this..."a damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Basically you have a situation where no matter what anyone does, someone in the chain is not going to be happy. It would seem that right now a lot of manufacturers are doing what's best for them...in the short run I guess that's good business, keep the profit up and all, but in the long run...if all you are left with is disgruntled distributors, shops and most importantly, customers...are you really doing what's best for long-term viability?
It is good to hear that Broadway's reps are conducting good PR at the shows...that can only help.
And it is true that with Broadway's new system - which is the same thing Atlas has been doing for awhile now - it could be that eventually Broadway business could come back to the LHS.
But you bring up an excellent point, which we owners have already discussed, is...well why DID they start up Factory Direct?
I'm sure the wiser owners are taking a wait and see attitude and not closing the door to Broadway entirely. No point in burning bridges. Hopefully nothing I've said in a post can be taken as an attack on BLI.
And ultimately the real problem is not just what BLI decides to do. No matter what a manufacturer decides to do in relation to wholesale costs and selling through the LHS or blowing things out...there is always gonna be some idiot that thinks he can sell at cost or for a buck or two over on eBay or through a mail-order house. The old "we lose a dollar on every sale but make it up in volume" approach.
LHS owners simply are not going to stock (read that as STOCK, most of them/us will of course special order if a customer finds the net too risky) high dollar locomotives when we can see them...be it Broadway or Bachmann Spectrum or whatever...on eBay for less than our cost at times. It's just good business to ignore the line altogether if this is going to be the situation.
But the bottom line...as with all business transactions...money talks and blah blah blah. LHS owners speak the loudest by simply not ordering any more product or canceling any orders...and that has been done in droves from what I hear.
You also make a good point there at the end...ultimately you get what you pay for. If all we want is the lowest price, then we can't gripe about what happens to our hobby in the future.
Well...hopefully I answered your questions and hopefully I didn't stick my foot in my mouth too much.
Safety Valve also made some good points in
Well, having those blow outs pretty much puts the entire experience of pre-ordering, reserving or otherwise securing a model before it gets produced out of the way. One only needs to wait 6 months to a year and get it for half off on the FDT model.
Once the hobbyshops discontinue pulling product to sell, the silence on the Broadway Limiteds's phones will be pretty loud. Then there is product that may or may not be produced. Modelers will not want to take the trouble or time to wait and see if one actually got produced. They will find it from the competition or subsitute it for another product that will fill the need.
The vicious cycle will feed on itself.
Regarding new products, I no longer rely on Monthly Issues of MR. I get it right here on these forums once someone says "HEY! LOOKIE AT THIS NEW ENGINE!" Huh? A bit of research is done online and within a few days you have a pretty good idea what's what.
Then to read the official product announcement on the pages of the next month's MR? Ho.. hum.. too slow and too late johnny. And to find out in some cases that the model will be sold out or not produced at all. Not good for the hobby.
I think the entire Hobby with regard to new products is seriously broken. Products like... Mini metals new trucks or the Rapido Passenger Cars work well when one considers how they are being produced, what models are availible and WHEN they are due at the LHS. No pain of worrying if engine X will ever make it to the LHS.
In fact, forget the LHS for those engines, let's all sit on the internet and wait for it on Ebay or FDT.
If Broadway Limited wants to recapture it's business. They need to do three things:
Scrap FDT.
Establish firm pricing for everyone.
Eastablish and commit to a full production schedule all the way through. Dont be iffy or in any way shaky on possible production or new products. Either make the damn thing or not announce it at all.
I have been following a number of products from PCM, BLI for over a year and almost more than two years since they are announced. Some are availible most are not. There is no new information which suffers from over-age and low-confidence as to the validity of the data. Such a such a product announced two years ago and continually pushed back in "Delivery date" does not a happy customer make.
Take the recent NYC Mohawk 4-8-2 These forums has discussed this engine to perfection with most interested parties very well aware of potential features and in some cases learned enough to adjust thier orders to get the versions they want.. such as boxpok drivers.
The durn engine is not even illustrated with photos or any information as to sound or availibility yet. I doubt I will ever see this engine at the LHS in person. Will I order one? Probably not as I am over-equippted in that wheel arrangement and am waiting on other products to actually come out of production and become availible so I can get them and move on.
10 years from now I may find a copy somewhere and get it for 50 bucks because it will be obselete compared to the new engines in the distant future. Or any engines at all are produced.
What happens if everyone produces an engine, no one buys it until it finally bubbles up as unwanted children on FDT or some other site far away from our beloved LHS?
I recently noticed that dealerships are not moving new product very well. They are doing good work moving quality used vehicles and throwing the junkers back into the system for someone else to worry about.
Makes me wonder if the entire process of Factory, Sales, Support and Repair is revelant at all. I can see a manufactor say.. no, we are not going to produce this engine because not enough people are interested in it.
Might as well close and lock the place up and go home. We're all done in the engine business at that point.
doc manago wrote:I´live in Argentina and had ordered a PCN Galloping Goose, at a surprinsingly 1/3d of the price list. I knew they by the MRR web page, so, I suppose a serious firm. Will see when the merchandise arrive. Bye.
doc manago,
Your supposition is correct. Factory Direct is run by the brother of the owner of Broadway Limited Imports. I spoke to both at recent Big-E show in West Springfield, MA. They seem to be on speaking terms so sibling rivalry is not an issue.
The show booth was Broadway Limited, Precision Craft Models and Factory Direct.
I constantly checked the FDT site and when they last week advertised the PCM F3's I did go ahead and ordered me the WP F3 A-B-B set and I must say they ship very fast!
Ordered last Tuesday and it already arrived (US to Switzerland) and packed very well. I think for the $298 I did get a great deal on some very handsome models with wonderful sound.
I'm not saying this is 100% fair to normal retailers but it's a great way to save some bucks.
I also don't know how long they will do that since all upcoming PCM/BLI models are built as ordered so they just sell off all current stock and the new products will sell out immediately anyway.
In many areas of the retail business, the wholesaler will in some way 'compensate' the retailer for stock the retailer has on hand IF the wholesaler drops the price below what the retailer has invested in the stock. Sometimes it's given in the form of a rebate to the retail dealer, sometimes as a percentage off on their next orders. I'm certainly not saying that BLI/PCM has this arrangement with hobby shops, I have no knowledge of how they do business, only that in some industries, the manufacturer/wholesaler gets an inventory of what the retail business has on hand (of the manufacturers products) and then issues them a credit for that amount, thus protecting the retailer and keeping in their good graces. Whether the retailer chooses to pass all or some of this amount on to the consumer is their business but they almost always do, simply because their competition will.
Let me say again that I don't know if hobby shops have this arrangement with BLI/PCM or not. I hope they do.
JaRRell
rrebell wrote: andrechapelon wrote: The train shop could close after the owner retires, there has been talk, I hope not though. Vern Cole has retired. The Train Shop is being run by his son Dennis.AndreWow, has it been that long since I talked to vern, maybe? Topic came up one day when customers were lamenting about hobby shops going away and comment was made about stability of verns shop and vern made the comment we'll see! Guess the disision was made and I am glad they are going to be around for awile, That means we still have two real hobby shops in the Bay Area.
andrechapelon wrote: The train shop could close after the owner retires, there has been talk, I hope not though. Vern Cole has retired. The Train Shop is being run by his son Dennis.Andre
The train shop could close after the owner retires, there has been talk, I hope not though.
Vern Cole has retired. The Train Shop is being run by his son Dennis.
Andre
I had the good fortune to get to the Train Shop again last year and it was still a very good place to view and purchase items that are hard to find.
I noticed that Vern's name is still listed in the MR advertisement last month along with Dennis.
My favorite shops I have visited in the last two years are Caboose Hobbies, The Caboose, Allied Models, The orginal Whistle Stop, and The Train Shop. I travel for business and get to visit some of the best that I know of.
All are good stores and still stock many items that are interesting and generate sales.
jecorbett wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote:I have read article after article on this forum about Trainworld deals and I have purchased items a few times from them over the years. They ship quickly since the stock is usually on hand, but are been less than friendly most of the time, at least to me. I usually ask a question or two and that does not go well with the people I talked to at the time. I've ordered from Trainworld many times and don't think I have talked to the same person twice. Some of their operators have been very friendly while others just wanted to get the order taken and move on. I wouldn't say the latter were unfriendly, just all business. New Yorkers have a way of talking that sounds unfriendly even when they're not.
CAZEPHYR wrote:I have read article after article on this forum about Trainworld deals and I have purchased items a few times from them over the years. They ship quickly since the stock is usually on hand, but are been less than friendly most of the time, at least to me. I usually ask a question or two and that does not go well with the people I talked to at the time.
I have read article after article on this forum about Trainworld deals and I have purchased items a few times from them over the years. They ship quickly since the stock is usually on hand, but are been less than friendly most of the time, at least to me. I usually ask a question or two and that does not go well with the people I talked to at the time.
I've ordered from Trainworld many times and don't think I have talked to the same person twice. Some of their operators have been very friendly while others just wanted to get the order taken and move on. I wouldn't say the latter were unfriendly, just all business. New Yorkers have a way of talking that sounds unfriendly even when they're not.
They do ship quickly since they have the stock on hand and I probably have never talked to the same person like you stated. They are all business as have a New York or big city attitude, which is not the same as Middle America. This is not to fault them as they obviously do well over the years and continue to advertise at a time when most are using the internet.
I have been to New York many times and never bothered to actually go to Trainworld. I am sure they are different if you go into the store. The people on line are probably just order takers, not modelers and if you ask any questions, they simply blow you off since they do not have any knowledge of the actual product.
CALZEPHYR
.
Well I can't speak for the what the shop in Green Bay does. But I do know that of all the dealers I've either spoken with or read their comments on a forum, certainly no one else so far was offered any sort of deals prior to last week.
The first I heard about it was when the Feb MR arrived at my shop. A day or so later my competitor called me up to ask if I had received an e-mail from a distributor about a clearance sale with better than normal wholesale pricing.
I replied "Great...have you seen the MR ad?" He had not, and pointed out immediately that at least one of the items was being sold direct to consumers for one dollar less than our distributor was selling to us.
To my knowledge, no "blow-out" deals had been offered to retailers until last week.
One dealer reports that his investigating shows that Factory Direct Trains is owned by the same people that own BLI/PCM. No surprise there.
Maybe the guy in Green Bay could see the writing on the wall before the rest of us did. Believe me, if I had any BLI left in my shop it would be slashed to FDT prices too and I'd just take the loss...
But of all the dealers I've heard from, not one of them had any advance notice of any blow-out sales either to retailers or to the consumers until that FDT ad came out.
That's all I know from here. As always, feel free to ask for clarifications if needed.
SteamFreak wrote: Several days before this topic hit the forums, my LHS owner showed me the Factory Direct ad, and he was angry. He said that this sort of undercutting happens all of the time, but this was one of the worst examples, and that he's not going to carry BLI/PCM anymore because it's too much of a risk. They are a brand that he has spent a lot of time promoting, so he feels betrayed, like some of the manufacturers aren't going to be happy until the hobby shops are out of business. I don't know if the situation is that dire, but he works like a dog and I understand his frustration. I think he's considering chucking the whole business, which would be a disaster for his customers.When I was a kid in the early 70's there was a local discount chain called Two Guys that had a good sized train department, and every year they had an after Christmas blowout of the stock that didn't sell. This meant AHM/Rivarossi Big Boys and Cab Forwards for $20 apiece, but the hobby shops survived in spite of it. I hope they can find a way to coexist with the big volume guys.
Several days before this topic hit the forums, my LHS owner showed me the Factory Direct ad, and he was angry. He said that this sort of undercutting happens all of the time, but this was one of the worst examples, and that he's not going to carry BLI/PCM anymore because it's too much of a risk. They are a brand that he has spent a lot of time promoting, so he feels betrayed, like some of the manufacturers aren't going to be happy until the hobby shops are out of business. I don't know if the situation is that dire, but he works like a dog and I understand his frustration. I think he's considering chucking the whole business, which would be a disaster for his customers.
When I was a kid in the early 70's there was a local discount chain called Two Guys that had a good sized train department, and every year they had an after Christmas blowout of the stock that didn't sell. This meant AHM/Rivarossi Big Boys and Cab Forwards for $20 apiece, but the hobby shops survived in spite of it. I hope they can find a way to coexist with the big volume guys.
TreamFreak
Good point about the early 70's and the AHM models. The were about $25 at Trainworld also, but the LHS still carried them and sold a few to newer customers. I purchased some of those back in the seventies and I still have them unused today. The three pole motors and large flanges make them shelve display items.
I hope the shop you are talking about does not shut down. I don't think BLI/PCM is trying to eliminate the LHS, but they are desperate for money to keep the new products coming in. If you look at their future commentments, it would indicate a lot of money has to be fronted for the models to be produced. From what I understand about the import business, the upfront money has to be in escrow before the order is accepted and the work starts. I don't have any idea of how long it takes to produce the model once the prototypes are accepted, but this is one of the reasons that the mark up is so great.
The BLI/PCM items on sale are not the hot sellers and certainly not the latest new releases, but the fact they did offer this indicates they need money and seems to say, they could care less about protecting their dealers.
CAZEPHYR
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
GMTRacing wrote: It's an interesting problem and one those of us in business have to deal with. I would be first in line to buy what I want at a substantial discount and have in fact dealt with the early "blowout kings" Trainworld. I support my LHS as well and now a couple of others as the LHS doesn't want to stock much beyond the basics in HO. For years in my business, I have had customers call up to complain about bills and have heard all about - I can get the same spark plug for 1.38 from so and so mail order. I have patiently explained many times that I need to stock said plug so that I have it in hand when it's needed and that I pay to find it, buy it, and keep it in inventory. I charge list price for the parts and have always been willing to let the customers bring their own parts in to fit assuming they are then also are willing to miss a race if it doesn't arrive in time, doesn't in fact fit, or is defective and needs to be returned. In other words I charge for the service I provide but if the customer is willing to spend the time and effort and take the risk to save some dosh - it's ok with me. Now back to the LHS. It's a bit unethical for the manufacturer to undercut his own retailers, but it does happen. I don't blame the folks doing retail for any retaliation they see fit, but really - are there two sides to the coin? I know if I cancel an order i lose my deposit. Will the manufacturers take the unsold stock back? Is there a restock fee? When I travel around the country to go to races, I always try to stop in to local train stores. From those visits, i know there are a few really good stores, and a lot where the hours are extremely limited, and the owners/help are less than helpful/knowledgeable/friendly. Is this taking sales down? Just a couple of thoughts, and now back to our regular programing. And for what it's worth I have a New Haven I-5 in plastic on order from an LHS (at the same price as advertised in the magazines)not from FTD or FDT or whatever. J.R.
It's an interesting problem and one those of us in business have to deal with. I would be first in line to buy what I want at a substantial discount and have in fact dealt with the early "blowout kings" Trainworld. I support my LHS as well and now a couple of others as the LHS doesn't want to stock much beyond the basics in HO.
For years in my business, I have had customers call up to complain about bills and have heard all about - I can get the same spark plug for 1.38 from so and so mail order. I have patiently explained many times that I need to stock said plug so that I have it in hand when it's needed and that I pay to find it, buy it, and keep it in inventory. I charge list price for the parts and have always been willing to let the customers bring their own parts in to fit assuming they are then also are willing to miss a race if it doesn't arrive in time, doesn't in fact fit, or is defective and needs to be returned. In other words I charge for the service I provide but if the customer is willing to spend the time and effort and take the risk to save some dosh - it's ok with me.
Now back to the LHS. It's a bit unethical for the manufacturer to undercut his own retailers, but it does happen. I don't blame the folks doing retail for any retaliation they see fit, but really - are there two sides to the coin? I know if I cancel an order i lose my deposit. Will the manufacturers take the unsold stock back? Is there a restock fee? When I travel around the country to go to races, I always try to stop in to local train stores. From those visits, i know there are a few really good stores, and a lot where the hours are extremely limited, and the owners/help are less than helpful/knowledgeable/friendly. Is this taking sales down? Just a couple of thoughts, and now back to our regular programing. And for what it's worth I have a New Haven I-5 in plastic on order from an LHS (at the same price as advertised in the magazines)not from FTD or FDT or whatever. J.R.
GMT Racing
Your comment about the Blow out Kings " Trainworld" is great. Trainworld and MB Klein have done for many years now and it has not stopped the LHS in the past. Trainworld used to purchase the Athearn products directly from Athearn prior to Horizon and sell the Athearn for lower prices than the LHS paid of them. MB Klein used to blow out the P2K products that were made across town before Walthers purchased the line.
I am surprised Factory Direct Trains seems to have jumped on this prior to Trainworld for the latest BLI and PCM models. It will be interesting to look at the February MR Trainworld ads and see if they are in the mood also.
3Railguy
It is interesting to hear some other dealers might be in on the blow out sales. Does he have the exact same items that have been slow sales for BLI???
Maybe this deal was offered to others out there but funds or the lack of confidence in the product selling stopped them from taking advantage of the sale.
Maybe One track mind can shed some light on this.
Thanks
andrechapelon wrote: Safety Valve wrote: andrechapelon, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter.I think we are going to witness the death of the engine display case as we knew it. Instead of engines on-hand at the store, we are cut down to ordering them online or via LHS's who are still willing to take your order.Why? For that matter, what would be different than things were back at the dawn of the hobby when most things were mail-ordered because hobby shops were few and far between? Yeah, I like to see an engine test run before I buy it. I usually buy from my (not so) LHS. OTOH, I'm only going to buy something that's appropriate for the railroad and era that I'm interested in (basically SP in the postwar era up to about 1955 or 56). I don't see The Trainshop in Santa Clara, CA going out of business anytime soon. They still have 3 twenty five foot or so long display cases chock full of engines ranging from MTH O gauge through the latest in DVP brass. I suppose it's possible that TTS might drop BLI/PCM, but that's only one manufacturer which takes up only one part of one display case. TTS also has brass up the ying yang.If there is anything to "whine" about I will have to blast the limited runs and advance ordering. Alot of times I visit a store and learn about a item that will be released soon (As in within 6 months) and have to decide if I want to order this item by a certian date. I would order this item and plan for it.The model railroad market is small and fragmented. You can't engage in continuous manufacturing the way Ford, GM or Toyota do without practically guaranteeing you'd choke your business to death with excess inventory. In how many different paint schemes does Athearn offer its Genesis F-3's? The Maine Central F-3's have been produced in both the original maroon and gold paint as well as the green and gold. How many Maine Central F-3's do you think Athearn could produce before glutting the market? Athearn has to short production runs, especially with smaller and less popular railroads. Limited runs are the only way to go,Andre
Safety Valve wrote: andrechapelon, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter.I think we are going to witness the death of the engine display case as we knew it. Instead of engines on-hand at the store, we are cut down to ordering them online or via LHS's who are still willing to take your order.
andrechapelon, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter.
I think we are going to witness the death of the engine display case as we knew it. Instead of engines on-hand at the store, we are cut down to ordering them online or via LHS's who are still willing to take your order.
Why? For that matter, what would be different than things were back at the dawn of the hobby when most things were mail-ordered because hobby shops were few and far between?
Yeah, I like to see an engine test run before I buy it. I usually buy from my (not so) LHS. OTOH, I'm only going to buy something that's appropriate for the railroad and era that I'm interested in (basically SP in the postwar era up to about 1955 or 56). I don't see The Trainshop in Santa Clara, CA going out of business anytime soon. They still have 3 twenty five foot or so long display cases chock full of engines ranging from MTH O gauge through the latest in DVP brass. I suppose it's possible that TTS might drop BLI/PCM, but that's only one manufacturer which takes up only one part of one display case. TTS also has brass up the ying yang.
If there is anything to "whine" about I will have to blast the limited runs and advance ordering. Alot of times I visit a store and learn about a item that will be released soon (As in within 6 months) and have to decide if I want to order this item by a certian date. I would order this item and plan for it.
The model railroad market is small and fragmented. You can't engage in continuous manufacturing the way Ford, GM or Toyota do without practically guaranteeing you'd choke your business to death with excess inventory. In how many different paint schemes does Athearn offer its Genesis F-3's? The Maine Central F-3's have been produced in both the original maroon and gold paint as well as the green and gold. How many Maine Central F-3's do you think Athearn could produce before glutting the market? Athearn has to short production runs, especially with smaller and less popular railroads. Limited runs are the only way to go,
eclaysmith wrote:It would seem that GM and Ford does the same thing at the end of the year with the remaining cars and trucks that have not sold well, but they acually own the product at the dealers so the dealer is protected and sells the cars at a lower price making some money also.This has nothing to do with trains but still feel the need to correct this minor misstatement by CAZEPHER in a previous post. A dealer ownes their inventory. At the end of a model year you are at the mercy of what incentives are in place and the market to move the inventory. There is no help from the factory. Last year we had a 05 Town Car that did not sell until well in to the next model year and we took about a $4000 loss on it. It hurt.Clay Smith Ford Lincoln Mercury Dealer
Thanks for the correction. I have been told in pass years that dealers paid a percentage per month to have each car in their inventory.
Bad example for me to use if the dealer has to purchase the cars.