In this day and age, I feel that Kalmbach should produce their Model Railroader back issues starting the the orginal issue as a PDF file. Say one year at a time. I know I'd buy every year if the cost was right. Keep the PDF a few years behind the current year so that they can still sell the magazine. It sure would save space in my home, make searching easier, plus the magazines would not wear or be destroyed. Now if you want a back issue and it's out of stock you are out of luck. I know someone will mention the pirating issue and that's a drawback I understand. Plus some people would rather wait to buy the PDF entire year instead of subscribing to the magazine. I feel Kambach could have a market offering this service. They are already doing certain articles and other items in PDF. I currently have every Model Railroader issue from 1979 and it takes up so much room. Just and idea. What do you all think?
Nate
Not to put a damper on it, but Kalmbach impresses me as operating pretty close to the bone. I'd be REAL surprised if the publishers are getting rich off of it. Therefore, it's doubtful they have staff or equipment for such an undertaking.
However, your idea has much merit, and I'd be among the first to sign up for a pdf subscription at, as you said, the right price. I'd imagine Kalmbach would be tickled for the revenue opportunity if enough readers were willing to presubscribe, thus defraying Kalmbach's investment. There are numerous archival companies with whom Kalmbach might contract for the effort. If they take bids on the work, they can easily calculate number of subscriptions necessary to break even on the project.
Lynda
I've spoken with Kalmbach about this when I've met with them about my articles and video PDF project that I'm doing for them and they tell me it isn't likely to happen.
The market for MR on PDF (several thousand copies) is just not very large compared to the cost and labor issues. Plus just a scan of the pages would not be enough, you would need someone to go through all the pages and mark words to index ... the manual labor would be extensive.
Then there's the issue of payment ... years ago it was not unusual for magazines to buy an original article with "first time North American publication" rights, so now producing the material in PDF form could be considered a second time global publication, which is in violation of the original contract. Just tracking down all the contractual agreements and sorting out the legal issues, determining if the author should be paid more for the second publication, yada, yada ... it could be huge.
Unfortunately, much of that material was originally produced with no idea that digitial redistribution might be a future option so the original contract when the work was purchased doesn't allow for that.
Long story short -- no market and the production is fraught with technical and legal issues.
You can get back issues for a song on eBay and Kalmbach provides an excellent online index ... which is almost as good.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
To have quick access to PDFs like this is a valid suggestion.
My first thought was who would be the lucky individual to have the job title: Page Scanner (for life). This would be a labor-intensive task.
I know what it takes just to scan and covert my own personal projects into PDFs, even when using a great tools like Irfanview & OmniPage for scanning, Serif PagePlus & DrawPlus for publishing, and Adobe Acrobat Professional for PDF fine-tuning.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I think that having an online, digitized record of ever MR (and just about every other model RR mag) would be a GREAT idea, especially for the older mags (30+ years, say). The older mags are chock full of good prototype data that's unavailable anywhere else (plans, histories, etc), and having the issues in digiatl form will make them more easily accessable to a lot more people.
Scanning and indexing the issues isn't a big deal. Most are already indexed, and PDFs are VERY easy to word search. It would probably take less than a year for one person to scan and catalog EVERY magazing Kalmbach's ever published (heck, I can digitize 100 prints at 4 meg apiece in about two hours).
Several RR historical societies are starting to digitize everything they've ever published, and it's a boon to people researcing the line. If people and organizations DON'T step up to the plate and start digitizing their material NOW, it'll soon be lost forever.
Want to generate more interest in any given subject? Make the data available online...
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
It would be nice if they offered a PDF version of the magazine. Takes up a lot less space.
I can understand that "rights" can be a tricky issue. Plus the work required to do the conversion for older issues too.
But it shouldn't be too hard to offer a disc of PDFs for the more recent issues. Again it's a matter of cost, and demand for the product.
This same question appears over and over at intervals. Early in this forum's history a magazine rep (I can't recall just who it was any more) postered a reply clearly stating that MR had considered the project but had no intention of doing anything about it in the foreseeable future.
Incidentally, the first few times this question surfaced here, numerous posters indicated what they'd be willing to pay for such a product and, to say the least, their figures would have never made it worthwhile for Kalmbach to consider anyway.
CNJ831
Model Railroading magazine is already selling PDF versions of its now former magazine. Here is a link: http://www.modelrailroadingmag.com/2005_cd.htm Check out the free sample issue.
Jim
Why am I the only person that wants this in a Star Trek viewing display userformat???? Oh thats right. Star Trek is my "other" obsess- er hobby.
LOL
James
jfugate wrote:I've spoken with Kalmbach about this when I've met with them about my articles and video PDF project that I'm doing for them and they tell me it isn't likely to happen.The market for MR on PDF (several thousand copies) is just not very large compared to the cost and labor issues. Plus just a scan of the pages would not be enough, you would need someone to go through all the pages and mark words to index ... the manual labor would be extensive.Then there's the issue of payment ... years ago it was not unusual for magazines to buy an original article with "first time North American publication" rights, so now producing the material in PDF form could be considered a second time global publication, which is in violation of the original contract. Just tracking down all the contractual agreements and sorting out the legal issues, determining if the author should be paid more for the second publication, yada, yada ... it could be huge. Unfortunately, much of that material was originally produced with no idea that digitial redistribution might be a future option so the original contract when the work was purchased doesn't allow for that.Long story short -- no market and the production is fraught with technical and legal issues.You can get back issues for a song on eBay and Kalmbach provides an excellent online index ... which is almost as good.
Sorry, I don't quite buy the old "we're too small to do this" bit. The ARRL (amateur radio organization in the USA) years ago started selling ALL their back issues of QST, QEX, and some other magazines on CD rom. Nobody seemed to get in a tizzy about royalty payments or original contract language; heck some of the articles go back to the early 20th century (1934, IIRC).
The League doesn't have a huge in-house staff to do this, they just chugged away at it and got it done. And, you don't have to index every word - the ARRL didn't. Acrobat allows one to do searches in a document, so indexing isn't needed. Trains - hobby; amateur radio - hobby.
There doesn't seem to be a market because MR doesn't push it in the magazine. If they wanted to do it, they'd find a way. Like was said in Field of Dreams: "If you build it, they will come". Make people aware of it and it WILL be purchased.
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
jackn2mpu wrote: Like was said in Field of Dreams: "If you build it, they will come".
The quote is, "if you build it, HE will come."
Also, Kirk never said, "Beam me up, Scotty," and the line "Play it again, Sam" does not appear anywhere in Casablanca.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Like was said in Field of Dreams: "If you build it, they will come". Forgive me for going off topic for a moment, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine: NO ONE said "if you build it, they will come" in Field of Dreams. The quote is, "if you build it, HE will come."
He/they - who cares. One is singular, the other is plural. Maybe I should have said that I paraphased the line. Whatever. But the whole point I was trying to make is: if it gets done as a pdf and distributed on cd-rom and the public is made aware of it, then it will get purchased. If MR doesn't make mention of it, asking if modelers would want this, then how will they know whether or not to do it. And, as far as I can remember, it's never been mentioned in MR. Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them.
jackn2mpu wrote: Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them.
I think I read somewhere that PDF files can be setup so they cannot be copied or altered. Maybe it was something different, but there are certain things that originators can do to prevent some actions with the files. Anyone know for sure? If this is correct, then if Kalmbach did do them, copying might not be a problem.
As to the problem of past article being able to be used, I dug out an old copy of one of MR's acceptance forms, and it did not include "one time use" material. It said "I agree that Kalmbach has the exclusive rights of the manuscript". This was from 1988, so things could have been changed since then, but my article would be available. If they paid me it would be great, but it's not something that I would expect.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Railphotog wrote: I think I read somewhere that PDF files can be setup so they cannot be copied or altered. Maybe it was something different, but there are certain things that originators can do to prevent some actions with the files. Anyone know for sure?
The Adobe Acrobat Professional edition does provide copy/print protection.
Haven't several people already mentioned that Kalmback is not interested in doing this for several reasons besides the expense and logistics? Kind of surprised this thread still has legs.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Just because a company has been around does not mean they are doing all the things TODAY that they should be. Many a company that is 50 + years old has failed to adapt to the times, no?
Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them. If they thought they could make money doing it, wouldn't they be producing them now? After publishing MR since 1934--and watching competition come and go--I'd imagine they know how to generate revenue, no?
There is a scene in the movie where he says something like that to Sam who is playing the piano and singing does he say something similar to play it again? I know something like that is said about a song.
Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Like was said in Field of Dreams: "If you build it, they will come". Forgive me for going off topic for a moment, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine: NO ONE said "if you build it, they will come" in Field of Dreams. The quote is, "if you build it, HE will come." Also, Kirk never said, "Beam me up, Scotty," and the line "Play it again, Sam" does not appear anywhere in Casablanca. Thanks for letting me vent.
CurtMc wrote:Just because a company has been around does not mean they are doing all the things TODAY that they should be. Many a company that is 50 + years old has failed to adapt to the times, no? Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them. If they thought they could make money doing it, wouldn't they be producing them now? After publishing MR since 1934--and watching competition come and go--I'd imagine they know how to generate revenue, no?
They already publish articles in PDF format. In fact, some of their PDFs include video.
They clearly "get it."
It might just be that Kalmbach knows a little bit more about the pros and cons of doing this than the posters on this board and have based their decision on that.
And therefore there should be no discussion of anything if they are not doing it?
There is certainly the tone of your postings.
Personally I don't think it is a good idea but it is worth chatting about.
Midnight Railroader wrote: CurtMc wrote: Just because a company has been around does not mean they are doing all the things TODAY that they should be. Many a company that is 50 + years old has failed to adapt to the times, no? Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them. If they thought they could make money doing it, wouldn't they be producing them now? After publishing MR since 1934--and watching competition come and go--I'd imagine they know how to generate revenue, no? Look at the MR website. It's not the internet presence of a company that doesn't understand current technology. They already publish articles in PDF format. In fact, some of their PDFs include video. They clearly "get it." It might just be that Kalmbach knows a little bit more about the pros and cons of doing this than the posters on this board and have based their decision on that.
CurtMc wrote: Just because a company has been around does not mean they are doing all the things TODAY that they should be. Many a company that is 50 + years old has failed to adapt to the times, no? Midnight Railroader wrote: jackn2mpu wrote: Look at it this way - it's another revenue stream for them. If they thought they could make money doing it, wouldn't they be producing them now? After publishing MR since 1934--and watching competition come and go--I'd imagine they know how to generate revenue, no?
CurtMc wrote: And therefore there should be no discussion of anything if they are not doing it?There is certainly the tone of your postings.Personally I don't think it is a good idea but it is worth chatting about.
No one is saying there shouldn't be a discussion.
People are saying that, given Kalmbach's position on the matter, there's really no point in discussing it.
KL
Several years ago, National Geographic released all of their issues on a set of CDs. The problem with them is, all you can do is view them on your computer. There's no search function, and you can't print anything, as near as I recall.
The very earliest issues are practically illegible because the printing quality back then was not very good and scanning made the print even blurrier.
Older issues had absolutely no advertising in them, and I imagine that the early issues of Model Railroader also had minimum advertising. Today's issues are almost 50% advertising. Would you really want to pay for a set of CDs that were half advertising, and the companies or products advertised no longer available?
Our club recently threw away hundreds of issues of Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, NMRA Bulletins, and other publications that were over 10 years old because it was our opinion that anything appearing in them was no longer available or there were better products and techniques available today. We tried and tried but couldn't even give them away. Several people offered to take them, but expected us to pay the postage.
I know I'd buy every year if the cost was right
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
cacole wrote:Our club recently threw away hundreds of issues of Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, NMRA Bulletins, and other publications that were over 10 years old because it was our opinion that anything appearing in them was no longer available or there were better products and techniques available today. We tried and tried but couldn't even give them away. Several people offered to take them, but expected us to pay the postage.
Other than some prototype information in them, any Model Railroader content over about 25 years old would be merely of historical interest about the hobby itself -- not especially useful, to be sure.
I have a complete collection of MR's back to 1960, with a select few issues all the way back to the 1940s -- and other than an occassional prototype piece or wanting to see what the hobby was doing then, I almost never refer to those older issues.
However, for archive purposes, Kalmbach should make good quality digital scans of older Model Railroaders, even if they never intend to sell them to the public. Paper does not last forever and a digital copy could be a handy in-house reference as well as preserve the older issues before they are lost forever.
If back issues sell today for a song, why would digitizing them suddenly make them more valuable? I just don't see how there's any real market for more than a few thousand digital copies of back issues -- and that's only if they were dirt cheap.
Scenery is completely new. So is track wiring.
BRAKIE wrote:Actually a lot of those older techniques is just as valuable today as they was back then.Nothing has changed all that much over the years.
jfugate wrote: Other than some prototype information in them, any Model Railroader content over about 25 years old would be merely of historical interest about the hobby itself -- not especially useful, to be sure.I have a complete collection of MR's back to 1960, with a select few issues all the way back to the 1940s -- and other than an occassional prototype piece or wanting to see what the hobby was doing then, I almost never refer to those older issues.
Like Brakie, I have to disagree with that position. I have MR back to the 1940's and if I was forced to truncate my collection at one end or the other, I'd definitely choose dropping the last 25 years of the magazine, rather than those earlier issues. I find them a treasuretove of ideas and useful material. Very little in the way of advancing modeling skills has surfaced in the last dozen or so years and you'll find ten times the true modeling content in those older magazines than can be found in the latest ones. In fact, I've won a number of NMRA modeling competitions building models based directly on articles, designs and concepts from the 1950's and 1960's that appeared in MR. No such similarly fruitful material has appeared therein in a long time in my opinion.