I wish the manufacturers of plastic structure kits would quit molding detail on the walls of their structures that need to be painted differently than the base color of the piece. For example, the window sills, ledges and cornices of brick structures, which are generally concrete or stone, need to be painted a contrasting color. In the case of my most recent effort, the Walthers Geo. Roberts Printing Company, there are brick fields between the concrete post and beams. I had the choice of spraying the walls the brick color and brush painting the concrete or spraying them a concrete color and brush painting the brick. I chose the latter. Brush painting the detail is tedious, time consuming, and probably my least favorite part of this hobby. Since the detail is almost always a contrasting color to the base, it usually requires two coats so the base color doesn't bleed through. No matter how careful I am, there are inevitably goofs which require touch up painting to the base color of the piece. I am sure I spend as much time doing the detail painting as I do on the rest of the kit building combined (base painting, brick mortaring, assembly, and weathering and decaling). How much easier it would be to produce different colored parts of the walls as separate pieces that could be spray painted and then attached to the wall. I am sure I could glue these parts to the walls much faster than I could paint them and the finished product would be much better since there would be a much sharper line between the parts.
I know this would add some cost to the kit but it is a price I would gladly pay. When I think of the additional time detail painting adds to structure assembly, it is not hard to figure out that the additional cost would be well worth the time saved. Besides, it would be beneficial to the companies since the faster we can build kits, the fast we would buy them.
Some might argue that built-up kits are an option. The choices in built-ups is extremely limited. Also, with most built up kits, the color is molded into the plastic rather than painted. Unpainted plastic looks like plastic. You can weather it with chalks but it still won't look as good as a painted and weathered structure.
I think the "kits" you're looking for are the laser-cut wooden ones and then there's always scratchbuilding. It would be EXTREMELY expensivefor the mfg. to re-tool their process, just so that the detail parts aren't pre-molded on the walls.... those details might even (through testing) have proven (the the mfg.) that they add enough strength/thickness to the plastic so that it doesn't warp too bad in transit....
I always thought of three levels of kit building:
1. (simplest) - pre-colored/most everything molded on - you just need to glue a couple of walls and the roof together. It might even snap together. Roundhouse kits, and the simpler structure kits come to mind.
2. (moderate) - the kits that come as a bundle of parts (more than the 3-5 of a simpler kit) and a blown up diagram of where things fit. Steam loco kits, and laser-cut wooden kits come to mind.
3. (hard) - an idea, maybe a blown up diagram from a previously finished kit that can't be bought anymore. In short - scratchbuilding.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
In some cases, I'd agree, but in others I would have to state a difference of opinion. If I think about window sills, for example, I think of a small chip of plastic less than a quarter of an inch long. In most cases, I would still want to paint it, although that could be done on the sprue, and then I would have to glue that tiny piece on just right. Small things like that inevitably require extra care when de-spruing, and often must be touched up with paint afterwards because the sprue link would otherwise show.
I've recently done a couple of Model Power buildings, Baldy's Barbershop and Annie's Antiques. These are nice buildings, but each of the double-hung windows is actually a double-hung window, and they can be opened and closed. Unfortunately, this means that each window is actually 4 small parts which must be painted, pre-assembled and installed. In the case of this model, it would have been a lot quicker to just paint the windows on a single integrated wall piece than to go through all of this.
After a year and a half back in the hobby, incidentally, I've found that my hands are much steadier and I can do a much better job of detailed brush-painting. Another health benefit of model railroading, I guess.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley wrote: In some cases, I'd agree, but in others I would have to state a difference of opinion. If I think about window sills, for example, I think of a small chip of plastic less than a quarter of an inch long. In most cases, I would still want to paint it, although that could be done on the sprue, and then I would have to glue that tiny piece on just right. Small things like that inevitably require extra care when de-spruing, and often must be touched up with paint afterwards because the sprue link would otherwise show.I've recently done a couple of Model Power buildings, Baldy's Barbershop and Annie's Antiques. These are nice buildings, but each of the double-hung windows is actually a double-hung window, and they can be opened and closed. Unfortunately, this means that each window is actually 4 small parts which must be painted, pre-assembled and installed. In the case of this model, it would have been a lot quicker to just paint the windows on a single integrated wall piece than to go through all of this.After a year and a half back in the hobby, incidentally, I've found that my hands are much steadier and I can do a much better job of detailed brush-painting. Another health benefit of model railroading, I guess.
My idea on the window sills is that the wall would simply have holes where the sills go and a whole row of sills would be molded on a single piece that would attach from behind. I have seen this done with other types of kit parts so why not the window sills. Even a single sill could be part of a slightly larger piece that would glue into place from behind the wall. Even if the sills were to be attached as single pieces to be glued into notches on the front, I know that with a tweezers I could perform this task more quickly and neatly than trying to brush paint it in place. The sprue link that you speak of could be on the bottom side of the sill where it wouldn't be visible. Many kits on the market now have parts as small or smaller than window sills and even more difficult to handle and glue into place. There is no reason this kind of detail could not be a separate piece. As for items like ledges and cornices, Walther's Merchant's Row 3 is actually a recycled Heljan kit that I built many years ago. The ledge between the upper and lower floor as well as the cornice came as separate pieces and it was a piece of cake to paint and assemble. If this could be done with a kit at least 25 years old, there is no reason it can't be done now.
This is another case of to each his own. I put several coats of paint on just about everything. The details are six of one, half dozen type thing. You can paint them on or off. I just take it for granted I'm going to have to touch up. And yes sometimes it takes more than one coat.
But then again, I painted my plaster cast rocks with 3 coats (2 were base colors) and around 7 colors total. Painting to me is relaxing while watching TV.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Why would you hand brush a building? You imply that you have an airbrush, right?I would shoot the bricks first with your favorite brick color, let it dry a day or so, then mask off the brick areas with masking or drafting tape (drafting tape is low tack). When I did a simular building (one of the Walthers backdrop buildings), I put the tape over the whole brick area, then used a sharp X-Acto knife to cut the tape so that it only covered the bricks.Next, I would shoot the concrete. Then you peel off the tape, do a little touch-up where needed, and voila! All done.Now, if you don't want to mask it, then shoot the whole thing concrete, then apply brick paper/plastic to the bricked in areas on the model. It won't look as good, but you don't have to mask anything.BTW, the only kit I know of were all the window sills are seperate parts, etc. is the Atlas Roundhouse.Oh, and you want to know how to make unpainted plastic look like it's painted? Spray Dullcote or another kind of flat finish over it. As long as the plastic doesn't have any discolorations in it, you won't be able to tell if it's painted or not. I've done this with several kits over the years, and I've been pleased with the results.
Paul A. Cutler III*************Weather Or No Go New Haven*************
jecorbett wrote: Some might argue that built-up kits are an option. The choices in built-ups is extremely limited. Also, with most built up kits, the color is molded into the plastic rather than painted. Unpainted plastic looks like plastic. You can weather it with chalks but it still won't look as good as a painted and weathered structure.
The interlocking tower and speeder shed are Walther's built-ups that I painted into PRR colors. Fortunately, the windows were molded in oxide red, which is a good approximation for PRR window sash color. The rest of the structures were painted 2-tone brown, per PRR practice. I would have found it much easier to paint had the buildings not been pre-built, but in the end they came out OK. This is N scale, by the way, so I had to use micro-brushes. But, it's very do-able.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
SpaceMouse wrote: This is another case of to each his own. I put several coats of paint on just about everything. The details are six of one, half dozen type thing. You can paint them on or off. I just take it for granted I'm going to have to touch up. And yes sometimes it takes more than one coat. But then again, I painted my plaster cast rocks with 3 coats (2 were base colors) and around 7 colors total. Painting to me is relaxing while watching TV.
Detail painting is something that requires my full attention, not something I could do while watching TV. But then, I can't walk and chew gum at the same time either.
I enjoy painting the large parts, especially the brick because I can expieriment with different mixes of browns and reds to get unique colors for each structure. I also will sometimes put a second coat on that is slightly different in color than the first because it give a texture. In a lot of structures, the bricks aren't all exactly the same shade and this technique replicates that effect.
Now detail painting is another matter. I find that to be about as relaxing as root canal.
jecorbett wrote: Detail painting is something that requires my full attention, not something I could do while watching TV. But then, I can't walk and chew gum at the same time either.
Now you know why I gave up chewing gum. And, considering what comes down the cable, about the only thing I want to do while watching TV is vomit.
Ah, there's the difference between our philosophies, Horatio. Detail painting, to me, is a calming and relaxing activity. We are, of course, in complete agreement on root canal.
Paul3 wrote: Why would you hand brush a building? You imply that you have an airbrush, right?I would shoot the bricks first with your favorite brick color, let it dry a day or so, then mask off the brick areas with masking or drafting tape (drafting tape is low tack). When I did a simular building (one of the Walthers backdrop buildings), I put the tape over the whole brick area, then used a sharp X-Acto knife to cut the tape so that it only covered the bricks.Next, I would shoot the concrete. Then you peel off the tape, do a little touch-up where needed, and voila! All done.Now, if you don't want to mask it, then shoot the whole thing concrete, then apply brick paper/plastic to the bricked in areas on the model. It won't look as good, but you don't have to mask anything.BTW, the only kit I know of were all the window sills are seperate parts, etc. is the Atlas Roundhouse.Oh, and you want to know how to make unpainted plastic look like it's painted? Spray Dullcote or another kind of flat finish over it. As long as the plastic doesn't have any discolorations in it, you won't be able to tell if it's painted or not. I've done this with several kits over the years, and I've been pleased with the results.Paul A. Cutler III*************Weather Or No Go New Haven*************
Masking off all but the fine detail areas seems like it would be at least as tedious as brush painting them and based on my expierience, wet paint inevitably finds its way under the masking tape onto the masked surface which will require, as you say, touch up painting. We could go on discussing whether your method or mine is less time consuming but in neither method is as simple as if the detail parts came as separate pieces. We are talking about a task that would take minutes instead of hours. An example is the Geo. Roberts Printing structure I just built. I began with the base painting Friday night and after allowing it to dry, began the detail painting. I continued with the detail painting working off and on all day while breaking to do other things. This morning there was still a little touch up painting to do. I then assemble the structure which practically fell together. The only thing left to do now is a little weathering. At least 75% of the time I spent on this structure was in painting the bricks between the post and beams. Had these brick walls come as separate pieces to be glued in between the post and beams, I could have saved most of that 75% of time. There is no reason these parts cannot be manufactured as separate pieces.
As for dull coat on built ups, I have had mixed results. In some cases it does remove the plastic look and in others it doesn't. It probably depends on the color and texture of the plastic. At best, it still doesn't look as good as painted and weathered plastic.
NeO6874 - In your numerical list, you missed one:
2.5. (as easy/difficult as you want to make it) - kitbashing an assembled/unassembled model into something the designer would disown on sight.
jecorbett - reference your second post to this thread:
The idea of strips of windowsills (and possibly concrete columns slotted to take brick walls;) maybe you should get together with a master architectural historian, a plastic kit designer and a venture capitalist and see about going into production. Those are good ideas, Pardner!
I will personally concede that painting isn't my favorite thing (on a 1 to 10 list it's about a 7,) but it is absolutely necessary if the desired result is a believable model scene (or piece of rolling stock.) However, it should also be subject to the distance rule. Something that is right at the layout edge will take careful and detailed painting (concrete all over, then slight variations in the colors of individual bricks, followed by weathering...) Something an arm reach back, smaller scale (forced perspective) can be a quick shot of brick, then just touch the concrete with a brush to get the contrast before a light coat of blue haze.
A perfect-looking individual model is achievable, and beautiful. A similar level of detail on all 450 square feet of a multi-level monster is the impossible dream.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE wrote:Frankly I see this as another whine simply because jecorbett wants "instant gratification" instead of modeling and says he's willing to pay extra..Well I am not willing to pay another penny as long as I can brush paint details.Its a simple process that anybody with basic modeling skills can do.
Well, Brakie, if that's the way you feel and you want to keep doing things the way they were done in the stone age, that's fine for you. However it is an undeniable trend that goes back to the earliest days of the hobby that manufacturers have come up with many innovations to make it possible for the average modeler to producer better looking models in less time. Compared to what was available just a few decades ago, things are much easy and simpler but that doesn't mean the innovations should stop. I certainly hope things are even easier and simpler for the next generation of modelers. That's called progress and it applies whether we are talking about model railroads, computers, or just about any other gadget you can think of.
Lack of time is a factor that drives people out of this hobby or keeps new people from coming into it. It drove me out this hobby for over 10 years until retirement afforded me the time to devote to it again. Anything that will help the modeler get things done quicker and simpler is going to be good for the future of this hobby. I believe my suggestion would do that. Whether the manufacturers feel it has merit is another matter. In the responses to my original post, or whine if you want to call it that, there has yet to be one person who disputed my contention that it would greatly reduce the amount of time required to build a quality structure.
The problem with your strips of sills is that it is difficult to do in that the sprue shrinks much more than the flat side of the bldg. Trying to calculate the dimensions to mold both parts to the exact size is near impossible.
As an example, Athearn used to have trouble molding the passenger car windows to fit. You often had to cut them apart because the spacing wasn't the same on the body and the window.
tomikawaTT wrote: NeO6874 - In your numerical list, you missed one:2.5. (as easy/difficult as you want to make it) - kitbashing an assembled/unassembled model into something the designer would disown on sight.jecorbett - reference your second post to this thread:The idea of strips of windowsills (and possibly concrete columns slotted to take brick walls;) maybe you should get together with a master architectural historian, a plastic kit designer and a venture capitalist and see about going into production. Those are good ideas, Pardner!I will personally concede that painting isn't my favorite thing (on a 1 to 10 list it's about a 7,) but it is absolutely necessary if the desired result is a believable model scene (or piece of rolling stock.) However, it should also be subject to the distance rule. Something that is right at the layout edge will take careful and detailed painting (concrete all over, then slight variations in the colors of individual bricks, followed by weathering...) Something an arm reach back, smaller scale (forced perspective) can be a quick shot of brick, then just touch the concrete with a brush to get the contrast before a light coat of blue haze.A perfect-looking individual model is achievable, and beautiful. A similar level of detail on all 450 square feet of a multi-level monster is the impossible dream.Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Actually, Chuck, I don't think any of these ideas are particular new they just haven't been adopted by the industry on a widespread basis. For example, the strips of window sills is similar to the way window glass was/is installed in Athearn passenger car kits. I haven't bought any in many years but it was a very simple idea. A number of "glass" panes were connected on a single strip and the panes were spaced to fit into the window openings on sides of the car. Similarly, the idea for brick inserts is not new. I had a Vollmer Baden-Baden passenger station that had what I guess were intended to be stucco walls that were inserted between the stone columns. It seems to me I have seen this done on other kits with brick walls although I can't remember a speciific example. In any case, the techniques would no doubt save a lot of time when building structures. Of course the manufacturers aren't going to retool existing kits to incorporate this idea. However, it is something I wish they would consider when designing future kits.
Fellers,
Well, in the last 30+ years, I've painted hundreds of buildings, both for myself, clubs, and on commission. One thing I started doing a lot of, especially on smaller scale structures, was to prime the entire structure with flat black spray paint. I let that dry and cure for a day or two, then went back and dry-brushed the details into place. Sometimes, if i had a large area with just one color, I'd mask and spray that and then dry brush the rest. However, using the black primer coat (or any dark color, it's fun to play around with various primers depending upon what you'll be painting over them) allows you to develop some instant shadows around the edges of windows, doors, columns, etc, and adds quite a bit of depth to the main colors.
Now, I also use washes and highlights on some things for detail work. For example, after the windows are painted, I'll take some of the same color, lighten it with some white, and add a bit of highlighting to the frames, to "pick out" the raised edges.
If you've got a small structure project, or background building coming up, I'd urge you to give this method a try. certainly, not everyone will be as enamoured of the results as I am, but it's a style I personally like, and it seems to ease the painting burden as well.
Respects,
jsoderq wrote: The problem with your strips of sills is that it is difficult to do in that the sprue shrinks much more than the flat side of the bldg. Trying to calculate the dimensions to mold both parts to the exact size is near impossible. As an example, Athearn used to have trouble molding the passenger car windows to fit. You often had to cut them apart because the spacing wasn't the same on the body and the window.
Too bad I didn't wait to read your post before I referenced the Athearn passenger cars in my reply to Chuck. Shrinkage apparently is something more than a gag line from Seinfeld. I still think doing a cut and paste on a strip of window sills is still going to be a lot less painless than individually painting them in place. If it is that much of a problem, even putting them together in pairs would simplify things greatly. This is how the windows are inserted in the Walthers moduler walls.
Gwedd wrote: Fellers, Well, in the last 30+ years, I've painted hundreds of buildings, both for myself, clubs, and on commission. One thing I started doing a lot of, especially on smaller scale structures, was to prime the entire structure with flat black spray paint. I let that dry and cure for a day or two, then went back and dry-brushed the details into place. Sometimes, if i had a large area with just one color, I'd mask and spray that and then dry brush the rest. However, using the black primer coat (or any dark color, it's fun to play around with various primers depending upon what you'll be painting over them) allows you to develop some instant shadows around the edges of windows, doors, columns, etc, and adds quite a bit of depth to the main colors. Now, I also use washes and highlights on some things for detail work. For example, after the windows are painted, I'll take some of the same color, lighten it with some white, and add a bit of highlighting to the frames, to "pick out" the raised edges. If you've got a small structure project, or background building coming up, I'd urge you to give this method a try. certainly, not everyone will be as enamoured of the results as I am, but it's a style I personally like, and it seems to ease the painting burden as well. Respects,
Actually, I do pretty much the same thing with the primer coat although I only use black if the final coat will also be black. I use mostly red or gray and occasionally white primer. Whatever is closest to the base color I'm going for. For brick walls, I'll use the red primer. I like the way the red will bleed through whatever shade I have picked for the top coat. It gives a non-uniform color to the bricks which is what I see in most old brick buildings.
jecorbett,It is my opinion that people that don't have time for a hobby should do one of three things.
1.Spend less time in front of the goof tube.
2.Spend less time on forums and more time modeling
or
3.Let go of their wife's apron string and do some modeling work.
As you can see I do not believe that "no time" lie that so many hides behind these days and misses out on enjoying life..How sad many choose to let a clock govern their life.Worst is being held captive by the goof tube.Terrible is not letting go of their wifes apron string long enough to enjoy a hobby.I mean if one can't let go of that string for 2-3 hours they are in deep,deep phoo.
Maybe the guy has kids?? Cut him some slack anyone who has all the time they need for modeling has no life.
BRAKIE wrote: jecorbett,It is my opinion that people that don't have time for a hobby should do one of three things.1.Spend less time in front of the goof tube.2.Spend less time on forums and more time modelingor 3.Let go of their wife's apron string and do some modeling work.As you can see I do not believe that "no time" lie that so many hides behind these days and misses out on enjoying life..How sad many choose to let a clock govern their life.Worst is being held captive by the goof tube.Terrible is not letting go of their wifes apron string long enough to enjoy a hobby.I mean if one can't let go of that string for 2-3 hours they are in deep,deep phoo.
Brakie- good for you, you don't waste time on television, don't waste time on forums, and have severed your apron strings.
Tell me- are the ties that you hand lay for your track store-bought, or did you make 'em yourself?
The rails?
The controllers?
You could generate your own power...
With enough time, and interest, you could do these things.
And be a better modeler?
Ah, but there are choices to be made...
Who peed in your coffee this morning. Lighten up.
I think you need to look at this from the perspective of a manufacturer. Are the benefits of your suggestion worth the additional cost?
Your suggestion would require a second mold for each wall which would add, I imagine, 15-25% or more to the cost of making the kit. Would enough modelers consider it a feature worth paying more for?
If it were a craftsman kit, perhaps, but for a common styrene building? I kind of doubt it. For most folks, it really isn't that big a thing to paint details and I'm not sure the additional modeling benefit (finer detail) would be obvious enough to justify the added cost.
I'm and N scaler and it doesn't really bother me to paint the fine details on a building. It's just part of the modeling process.
Mike Tennent
MTennent wrote: I think you need to look at this from the perspective of a manufacturer. Are the benefits of your suggestion worth the additional cost? Your suggestion would require a second mold for each wall which would add, I imagine, 15-25% or more to the cost of making the kit. Would enough modelers consider it a feature worth paying more for? If it were a craftsman kit, perhaps, but for a common styrene building? I kind of doubt it. For most folks, it really isn't that big a thing to paint details and I'm not sure the additional modeling benefit (finer detail) would be obvious enough to justify the added cost. I'm and N scaler and it doesn't really bother me to paint the fine details on a building. It's just part of the modeling process. Mike Tennent
I think you are overestimating the additional cost. The parts I suggest could probably be incorporated on sprues containing other parts adding next to nothing to the cost. Whatever additional cost that would be incurred would be in the engineering of the molds to create the parts that fit together. That is a step that is already done for doors and windows on most kits so why not take it the next step and do it for other detail as well.
I am not suggesting that manufacturers re-engineer existing kits with this feature but am suggesting that they do it with kits developed in the future.
I think it is a big thing when you consider that the painting of the fine detail takes as long or longer the rest of the steps in kit building combined. I think that many modelers would gladly pay the added cost. Look at the popularity of RTR equipment and built-up structures. Many of us feel our time is more valuable than the additional cost.
jecorbett said: Many of us feel our time is more valuable than the additional cost.
To bad time is important to you and few others that you expect everybody else pay for it..You seem to forget dies would need to to made FOR EACH detail part which would cost mega dollars to make and that would up the cost far more then their worth-how about warpage and brakeage?...
One question..Don't you think the cost of structures and the hobby in general isn't high enough?
No,I will not pay to have separate detail parts that some want because they put "time" in front of everything they do in life.
Now if you have deep pockets to pay for those parts perhaps you should move up to the craftsman line of kits like FSM,Downtown Deco,American Model Builders and other such structures..
BRAKIE wrote:Nuts! I was married and help raise 2 kids and worked on the C&O under Chessie banner in the process and still found some time to model..Having a family is a lame excuse as well as that great lie-no time.
Believe it or not, there are people who are busier than you. Personally I think the family comment is very sad. I like to spend as much time as possible with my family. Since my kids are young, I spend my time with them and thus have no time to model. But if you chose a plastic model over your own flesh and blood, that's your choice. Since this is a public forum and open for comment, I find that choice borderline horrible.
Following, people do hobbies because they find them fun. People have a right to have an opinion about other people. A person who berates another because this other person doesn't model in as great detail or use the same processes is, in my mind, the maturity level of a middle schooler. While we are slandering how someone else has fun with the hobby and their devotion to family, lets make fun of their shoes and how much they suck at kickball.
Brakie, your comments have added ZERO value to this thread and I really hope you can see how immature they seem. Try to post your opinions like an adult and you might actually get listened to.
Dave Loman
My site: The Rusty Spike
"It's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.... hey, someone's making a penny!"
BRAKIE wrote: jecorbett said: Many of us feel our time is more valuable than the additional cost. To bad time is important to you and few others that you expect everybody else pay for it..You seem to forget dies would need to to made FOR EACH detail part which would cost mega dollars to make and that would up the cost far more then their worth-how about warpage and brakeage?...One question..Don't you think the cost of structures and the hobby in general isn't high enough?No,I will not pay to have separate detail parts that some want because they put "time" in front of everything they do in life.Now if you have deep pockets to pay for those parts perhaps you should move up to the craftsman line of kits like FSM,Downtown Deco,American Model Builders and other such structures..
In case you haven't noticed, the trend in this hobby has been toward making things that will save the hobbyist time. Why do you think we now have RTR equipment and built-up structures. There was a time when rolling stock was scratch built. Then came cumbersome kits in which the floor, the roof, the doors, and all the walls were separate parts that had to be assembled. Then the car had to be painted and lettered. Then came kits with premolded and painted car bodies that just had to be snapped onto the floor assembly, attach the trucks and the couplers and it was ready to go. Now there is a wide variety of RTR freight and passenger cars available to the modeler. And let's not forget things like prefab flex track and turnouts. Don't you think these innovations cost money. Don't you think most hobbyists appreciate these time saving alternatives. It's obvious that I am not the only one who values their time over their dollars.
And this trend does not just apply to model railroading. It applies to just about everything else in our lives. We are constantly being offered innovative new products to allow us to do things more simply and efficiently. Anything that saves us time allows us to be more productive but new innovations cost money because someone has to pay for the R&D that went into them.
If you want to continue doing things the old fashioned way, you will still have that alternative. This is a hobby of choices. But I am all for anything that lets me create more in less time. I am a great admirer of John Allen's work but that doesn't mean I want to build my railroad the way he built his.
And BTW, expensive craftsman kits are not an alternative for someone wanting to save time. These kits are loaded with fine detail that requires a lot of assembly time. Some of the assembly borders on scratchbuilding. I have built several of them. They look great when finished but I don't consider the benefit worth the added time so I don't go for these kits anymore.
I understand where you're coming from, having juggled 3 kids, graduate school, teaching appointments, consulting, professional societies, and volunteer work around what otherwise would have been more productive modeling time. But this:
jecorbett wrote:But I am all for anything that lets me create more in less time.
And as far as this goes:
And BTW, expensive craftsman kits are not an alternative for someone wanting to save time...They look great when finished but I don't consider the benefit worth the added time so I don't go for these kits anymore.
jecorbett ,Its not the matter of being old fashion but,there are things that are still worth doing.Its called modeling.sadly with today's "instant gratification" crowd that seems to be a dying portion of the hobby.To bad that really.I also like some of the newer trends but,still like to relax by brush painting details,adding details and other old fashion modeling.
I fully agree the RTR former BB cars look far better then they did as kits of say 10 years ago even the RTR BB engines(GP38-2,GP40-2,C449W,AC4400,SD40-2) looks and runs far better then they did from the box but,we are paying almost double price.Recall these are old locomotives that required no new dies.Imagine the price if these former BB units was upgraded to todays standards as requested by many modelers- I suspect far more then those requesting separate structure details since the REAL tread is to have correct locomotives and cars...As you may or may not know structures has always played 4th fiddle behind locomotives,freight cars and smooth track work and in that light I don't think you will see seperate structure details..What you will see is more ready made structures.That IMHO will be the REAL time saver just like RTR engines and cars-and I dare say shake and bake layout kits or prebuilt layouts will become all the rage within the next few years..