Trevor,
Let's face it: we're all reliving our childhoods in one way or another through our modeling (the adult term for "playing with trains"), and so what? It's healthy, creative, and as you've proven, provides a fantastic way to bond with the next generation. The sky is the limit as far as creativity goes, and as much as I admire the rivet counter's masterpiece photo spreads in Model RR'er, the rivet counting can become really obsessive, to the point that many people feel intimidated by the hobby. That may partially explain the falling number of model railroaders. Unless you're modeling a museum piece, a layout is much more attractive (especially to kids) if it involves elements of humor & whimsy. It's your world, so what you say goes.
You're son is learning so much from doing this with you, as well as spending a lot of quality time with Dad. The guys at the LHS, assuming they were really unkind and not just mildly amused, are shooting themselves in the foot. It's that sort of elitist attitude that will do this hobby in -- this belief that only a select few carry the torch of model railroading, and the rest of the people are just playing with toys.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Ah, but that's the wrong shade of blue on Thomas....
Something that isn't always recognised is that while the original Thomas stories were simply based on bedtime stories told by Awdry senior to Awdry junior, much of the later books was based on their model railway.
Henry was rebuilt from an LNER prototype Pacific to an LMS prototype 4-6-0 because Awdry had obtained a model of an LMS Stanier "Black Five" and painted it green as his "Henry".
"Duck" was called that because the particular model Awdry had on his layout (a "Gaiety" GWR 57XX 0-6-0 pannier Tank) had a bad waddle, and when running looked like a duck.
The selection of diesel locomotives reflected the availability of models in the early 1960s, BoCo being the Hornby Dublo Metropolitan Vickers Type 2 and the other being the Triang Beyer Peacock "Hymek".
The visit of "Flying Scotsman" to Sodor "from the mainland" coincided with the release by Hornby of a model of the preserved locomotive.
In 1948, of course, the private Sodor railway was nationalised, as was the rest of the British Railways, and Sir Topham Hatt, who had been the "Fat Director" of the private railway became the "Fat Controller" of the nationalised "Region". This character was in fact based on a well known railfan and friend of Awdry (whose name escapes me)
While Bachmann base their models on the drawings from the book, the Hornby "Thomas" models are all recycled British prototype models. The "Hymek" is of course the original Triang moulding that Awdry used on his layout, Hornby now providing a face moulding on one end.
Awdry's Sodor, in the books at least, adhered to prototype practice somewhat more than the TV stories, but more than most model railways. Following the books would be a good guide for a scale British layout, as well as a Thomas collection.
Take an original Thomas book to the Hobby shop, and explain how you are following a real prototype, as well as a sadly little known but very influential classic layout!
M636C
Ya know what...? If I had the space and there was more Thomas the Tank Engine in N scale...I would love to model Sodor.
I'm still a Thomas fan; and I'm 17. So if I were to build a Thomas layout...It would be for me as I have no children at this moment in time. I don't think I would be critized at my LHS...Because I work there and am good friends with everyone. They would probably think it would be a fairly cool idea. However, if it was spread around the school that a high school senior is playing with toy trains that came from a show for four year olds...I'd be laughed at around every corner. Would it bother me? It may get annoying after a few weeks...But I wouldn't stop doing it.
Don't worry about the people at your LHS. And if it does bother you, just explain to them that the layout you are building isn't just for you to run trains on. They'll support the idea that you are helping to bring in a new generation to the hobby.
But there is always that magic about Thomas that seems to linger with train enthusiasts everywhere.
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Railphotog wrote: What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene? Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?
What if another adult said they were modeling a Sesame Street scene? Would you show a lot of respect if you were in the scale modeling fraternity?
Something else that hasn't been said, "Sodor" would, in a sense, be a freelanced line, based on the fictitious prototype. That is to say, the real "Sodor" exists, only in model form. If you built your own version of "Sodor", would you be any less the modeler than anyone who builds their own version of the V&O, or the G&D, or freelances any other road? You LHS folks may think so, if their snickering isn't just "all in fun". If I went into my LHS and bought the Thomas line, and I started hearing the jabs, I would probably say something like "these are for my son" (probably truthfully), but I would also be tempted to say something like "yeah, I plan on running Thomas right alongside my BLI F units, and my Spectrum steamers, so what? I'm not ashamed to admit it" or to ask whether any other modeler has any other kind of unrealistic rolling stock, be it a Southern Railway F45 (I have one, even though Southern never did), a SF GG1 (I've not seen one, but you never know), or if their scratchbuilt flatcar is missing a row of rivets, or whatever.
Truth is, most of us have compromises in the level of realism in our equipment to varying degrees, and there have been photos of 1:1 versions of Thomas, so who's to laugh if you're buying the model? The only modelers who could even have a legitimate arguement would be those who have scratchbuilt or superdetailed their models to the Nth degree, and who have replicated a specific place and time so meticulously, that even an expert museum curator could not find any discrepancies in their efforts. These modelers are so few and far between, aside from all the modelers who strive for this level, but still have a ways to go, that I would doubt there are maybe 100 in the world. The rest would have at least 1 discrepancy on their layout, be it an out-of-place car, locomotive, detail on said car or locomotive, structure or whatever.
My point is this: even if you're in your 40's or 50's or even older, what's so wrong with running Thomas? Even if your kids are grown, you may have grandkids, or nieces/nephews or other extended family. Along those lines, what's so wrong with fixing up an old Tyco/Model Power or other "low quality" engine? Some of us have sentimental attachments to these old engines, and would like to be able to run them occasionally "for old time's sake". I have even been known to upgrade an old Tyco type car with Kadee's and metal wheels.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Well if you think of it, the Thomas the Tank Engine TV series seemes to be aimed at pre-school children. Most of the material offered for sale is toys. You tell them at the hobby shop that this is what you are modeling and they don't treat you with respect? Perhaps if you were to emphasize that you are building with your young son it might make things more clear?
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
"Besides, if you can model to the standards on the show, you can model ANYTHING well."
I totally agree with what ElMik wrote.The modelling on TTTE is an excellent standard for all of us. Just turn the sound off and watch sometime.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles at the LHS. Mine sells the Thomas stuff and it's right down there where the kids can find it. My kids. I'm glad they loke the hobby shop, and Thomas is a character who is attracting children to the hobby -- a few adults too. There will always be kids who love trains, and the challenge for the hobby is to help those kids become model railroaders. Hooray for you for honoring your child's interest and getting involved.
I think a weathered Thomas would look cool.
You know, a lot of the guys are still trying to live down the "playing with trains" moniker, and I wonder if what you're doing hits a little too close to home for them. So just relax.
My only objection to Thomas is that he has big flanges and I'd have to replace the wheels to get him to run on my code 83/70 layout.
Enjoy!Peter
I absolutely concur. 10-20 years down the road, you'll hear "I got started with Thomas" as often as you hear "I got started with a Tyco/Bachmann box set" or a "Lionel setup" today.
Plus, if the Thomas stuff is so rotten, why does the store carry it? Can't be that bad.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Sodor as a layout. If you took the one I see on TV with my kids and pulled off the bright-colored, smiley-face trains and replaced them with something more "real" I bet those same guys who poo-poo it would talk about the nice scenery, the cool use of real running water, etc. and so forth. I, for one, would LOVE to see some overall photos of the layout, a documentary on the modelling aspects of the show, or even a tour!
And while my layout is not Sodor, I do own several of the Bachmann Thomas trains in order to get my kids involved, and I have no shame about it. They live in the roundhouse with the 'real' locos - I don't "hide" them when the kids aren't around. Heck, I put DCC decoders in 'em that cost more than the dang loco! Now that's crazy-talk right there!
It's not just Thomas. You get many who 'look down their nose' at those who don't:
See, there's a whole hierarchy of skills and a whole hierarchy of how intense you want to get versus just enjoying it. I think the skill of 'imagining' is woefully undervalued in this hobby. Is it a matter of "you'll never be good enough." OR, is it a matter of "You'll never be bored..." It's a matter of attitude by those with the skills.
Now, I msyelf do some of those things above, and some I don't do. I think ALL of them are great, and I think doing ANY of them is a fine skill. I hope one day to do all of them myself (except maybe the truly slavish prototype thing... That's not for me).
More importantly, I hope they're all skills people are willing to share rather than hoard. It's a lot easier to sniff at someone who doesn't know how to handlay a turnout than it is to teach them how to do it.
Seek out the clubs, shops and groups that lean toward the latter. They do exist.
Gee Trevor, I bet the LHS still took your money!!! Next time pay in small change and claim it came from the piggy bank.
I don't model Sodor...but I would if I had more room. I got a Thomas for my girlfriend's boys. Now I have them all, with cars and Toby on order. They are all converted to DCC and Gordon and Henry have sound. The boys LOVE running them on the layout. The biggest crisis weekend before last was trying to explain to a 4 year old why he couldn't pull my daylight cars behind Henry (haven't converted Thomas stuff to Kadees).
It is a great way to get the younger generation initiated into the hobby. They identify with Thomas and their imaginations do the rest. As I said, if I had the room I'd add a 5x9 Island of Sodor with harbor and quarry. I'd even tack a scale hand painted sign on the Isle of Sodor sign saying "No Deseasels".
As far as the equipment goes, it's simple and sturdy. The motors are Spectrum motors because Bachmann said it wouldn't be economical to set up a seperate line just for Thomas stuff.
Don't be afraid to send pics when you get going.
And Mr. Beasly, don't worry about the code 100 and plastic wheels, it just means you're not really in the hobby..snicker, snicker. (Just kidding)
Tilden
One Track Mind wrote:Something else needs to be pointed out about snickering in a hobby shop, in case you are relatively new to the atmosphere...I don't see it as much anymore...but in the old days you'd see Missouri Pacific modellers making fun of Rock Island modellers and vice versa.
GearDrivenSteam wrote:Yes, Thomas is the Rodney Dangerfield of model railroading.
The guys at the LHS are stupid for laughing at your choice of road....I'd tell them if they don't appreciate it, I could very well take my business elswhere if they find it so amusing...(I'd also have a great urge to dot both their eyes, but prison isn't that appealing to me)...That's just plain wrong on their part...Thomas the tank engine is cool and i try to watch it every chance i can on PBS even at 40+(closer to 50)
Maybe you can get Sir Toppum Hat to put out a contract on those imbeciles and rough them up a bit . He's the guy with all the connections.......chuck
I'd be tempted to see if they snicker when told that you're only there to look at the item because your son is excited and just can't wait for the UPS truck to arrive on Monday.
Then I'd ask to purchase a couple packs of track spikes. Leave 'em wondering just how much product they're no longer selling to you and their lost future customer.
dwRavenstar
- Mark
My education is at odds with my temperament; the former says I should be polite and learn if the snickering is genuinely derisive or if it is a sign of something else. The latter says I should ask the person about their amusement, and if the answer is not satisfactory, to tell them that it is so unfortunate that I will no longer be able to support the business, and that I would be advising my friends to stay away.
Snickering about one's choice is likely a sign of rigidity, and that is never a good thing for a business, nor for someone to whom you go for advice or help. If people don't advance, they fall behind (attributed to Seneca).
Finally, their apparent position begs the question- why sell what you deride? If you know or believe that something is in some way deficient on a given dimension, why would you make it a practice to offer it to valued customers?
Yeah, and there are people who won't respect my layout either, because I use Code 100 track and some of my cars have plastic wheels.
I'd like to see your layout on Photo Fun some weekend. We always appreciate a good modelling job, and something like a "serious" Thomas layout would be worth seeing.
If I had train-friendly kids or grandkids, I'd probably go out and get a Thomas set myself, just to run for them.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I also support your idea to model Thomas. I have my own large HO scale layout but I built a smaller Thomas layout for my two young Grandson's. I also purchased the Bachman sets and have continued to add more cars and engines to their layout. It really keeps them busy for hours and also keeps them from trying to run mine which is considerably more complicated to operate. My LHS never says a word about what I buy. I even took an engine and cars to our clubs layout one afternoon to run for a group of kids that came to watch the trains run. As always, Thomas was the star of the show. They were watching it more than the large intermodel and mixed freight trains that were also running.
George
Have fun with your trains
Model what you want - it's your railroad.
I can remember when I first joined the TCA as a teenager and had to "justify" collecting Marx tin litho (back when it was "cheap tin junk" as opposed to nowadays when it's become "fine collectable lithographed tin-plate art" - 20-odd years later my trash has truely become a treasue!). If you LSH wants to act like that, take the above advise and go mail-order. I'd even suggest looking into British prototype stuff from Bachmann and Hornby since the wheels, couplers etc. are completely compatable (I say this because I also collect Brit outline OO and, well, Hobbytown has these nice tank wagons that just happen to have "Sodor Oil" on the side instead of "BP" or whatever - and look good behind my Class 37 regardless).