Ballasting Switches?

[Anonymous]

What is the best way to keep ballast and glue from gumming up the switches? What method of laying the ballast around switches works best?

Thanks!
-Dale

[Anonymous]

Don't glue it or use glue WITHOUT A WETTING AGENT and sprinkle just a little ballast on top of it.. The wetting agent is respnsible for sticking most switches. I myself prefer the no glue method. FRED

[Sperandeo]

Well Dale,

One reason I like to build my own switches is that I can ballast the ties before laying the rails, so the points never get gummed up by glue. That said, there are ways to minimize problems when ballasting turnouts. The most important, I think, is to be very, very sparing with the ballast. You can always come back and add a little more, but it's a lot more work to chisel away too much.

I would be especially careful not to ballast close to the ends of the switch rod (the prototype term for what modelers call the "throw bar"). Be sure to allow a clear space at both ends where the switch rod will have to move. You can protect these places with small bits of masking tape to be really sure.

I'd also suggest using a more dilute glue mixture. Instead of the 2:1 water-to-white glue ratio that's often recommended, I use 4:1. This is plenty strong enough to bond the ballast – in fact it does a better job than the 2:1 mixture because it flows into the ballast better – but doesn't do such a "good" job of gluing the points and switch rod.

If you haven't laid your track yet, it can also help to paint the roadbed a color close to the color of the ballast you want to use. That way you can go lightly on the ballast without having any voids be so obvious.

And by the way, thanks for signing your name.

So long,

Andy

[Puckdropper]

What I do (or don't do) is not ballast around the switch. The 1" of straight track on the #6 turnouts I have may get some ballast, but not much.

[Anonymous]

I haven't run into this problem yet - I don't have a layout! But It might be better to use some of the pre-formed switch roadbeds that have the ties,etc. impressed in them so that the switch would fit into the block to the right depth with out the mess of loose ballast, and still look prototype, which is really, after all is said and done, what you're trying to achieve on your layout! You very seldom see ballast on a prototype railroad on top of the ties around the switches, anyhow. I don't know whether they make such a product but I thought that I had seen something like that somewhere in a magazine or other publication. Good luck with your project!

[Anonymous]

The first advice I got was to not balast. It didn't look right and detracted from the overall appearance. Being an artist, I'm use to painting fine detail. I use MOD PODGE to hold balast. I took a fine brush and "painted in the glue to the exact places I wanted balast and use a powder trickler from reloading ammo to drop the balast. You can literally drop it in one pebble ata time. Yes, it does take time... buyt since the layout will never be done... what's the hurry? Actually, I did my 12 turnouts in a little over three hours. They look right and never have binding problems. I filed away the cork below the throw rods and did the same careful balasting to keep the consistent look. Yeh, the rivet counters will snicker...

[boomer44]

What I've seen of the prototype around here is they don't ballast the switches. The switches/ties from the frog to the end of the points just sit on the ballast. With all the road grime and grease this area takes on a dark color. On my layout I spraypaint the roadbed in the switch area a black/brown color before I install the switch. I've been using carpenters glue to secure the track to the roadbed with great success. I don't glue the switches at all but just drive a few spikes through several ties in the predrilled holes. If I ever need to replace the switch I just slid off the railjoiners and pull the spikes. If anyone questions the spikes I just say they are date nails.
Gordon

[cacole]

I agree with boomer44 -- prototype switches are not ballasted between the frog and the points. A couple of years before Kyle Railways abandoned the operation, the San Pedro and Southwestern excursion railroad installed a runaround siding near the ghost town of Charleston, Arizona. I monitored the progress of that effort practically daily after the work crew had gone home, and noticed that neither switch was ballasted between the frog and the switch rod. If you're using cork roadbed, try painting the cork the color of the ballast you're going to use before the turnouts are installed, and it will not be that obvious that there is no ballast.

[Anonymous]

Ballasting around turnouts is handled differently by different roads, in different places and in different climates, for numerous reasons. Additionally; brakemen and switchmen have always been in an ongoing tug-of-war with the civil engineers over the use of "fines" in switch yards and around switch control stands. The term "fines" refers to angular crushed gravel of much smaller size than typical ballast size aggregate.
The train crewmen (who must dismount and throw switches) and the yard switchmen, often on the ground all day, want a safer (less ankle twisting) not to mention much more comfortable surface to walk on. The civil engineers, however, are responsible for providing a solid stable (translates to 'well drained') roadbed for the entire line and know fines penetrate down into and fill the cracks and crevices in the larger ballast material and eventually destroy good drainage.
Many switch yards have had to be totally rebuilt due to excessive use of fines sending a whole network of tracks and switches sinking into a manmade swamp. Some lines, however, do provide for the added safety and comfort of the brakemen and switchmen by prudent and sparse use of fines. This is usually accomplished by limiting fines to within twenty feet of switch throw mechanisms and never closer to the rails than the ends of normal length ties.
Guess the main point here is, it's not so much an argument of 'how the railroads do it' (they do it many different ways) but a question of learning (or deciding for yourself) the details of 'how the place and period you're modeling did it.' The next thought must be directed toward how to accurately create your model railroad’s civil engineering decisions without gumming up the works. Adding “fines” to your yards and switch stands can add a whole new and very subtle dimension to your ballasting. Experimenting with some scrap track or a defective turnout on a scrap piece of plywood with a variety of ballasting materials and techniques can help you create and develop the look you’re seeking without jeopardizing your layout. JON

[Anonymous]

Well I was thinking that you can use masking tape on and around the switch area to prevent ballast going where you don't want. It is a throught can it hurt?
William

[Anonymous]

I will be ballasting some switches soon and this thread is just in time. I did not think of the points and throw bars. You all probably just saved my switches from getting "Switched" to the trash bin.

I pondered these wonderful posts and decided that I will ballast up to the points and the frog as well as the throwbar and stop a tie or two away. After everything dries I may very carefully add a bit in non critical spots and paint over the rest. Maybe leave a HO coffee can in a spot ( I dont know of a coffee can in HO, I just used an example.)and a discarded tie in another things like that looks like it is half buried anyways.

Good Luck with your Switches

Lee

[Anonymous]

I've had success soaking the operating sections of the switch with WD-40 after ballasting but before applying fixative. You may have to clean up some loose bits of ballast later but the moving portions will still function as the WD-40 rejects the glue.

[Anonymous]

For removing hardened white glue (at least the kind we have here in Croatia) we in our model railroading club use alcohol. When we wanted to pull out (or up?) some already ballasted track and switches for realignment, we soaked the ballast with alcohol and it was easy to remove both the ballast and the problematic section of track. It was also easy to clean the glue off the track and the switches with alcohol. Hope this method of removing hardened white glue (should you ever need to) works for you, too.
Best regards,
Oliver

[ralphb]

I'm in N-Guage, so my switches are smaller, but here's my method. Cut a length of gummy packaging tape and gently stick it on the bottoms of the ties. Then, trim the tape around the switch and under the throw rod. Put the switch face up in a pan or tray and sprinkle ballast on it and pack it as tightly as you can. When you turn it over the loose ballast will drop away. The ballast will be a bit thin, but it clears the points, and you can always add ballast to the rest of it.

[Anonymous]

Great advice from all. I actually managed to just very carefully distribute the ballast up to the switch point and brush every tiny particle away from it. Tedious I know but it worked. Then I just carefully glued it down after oiling anything that had to move to prevent the glue from sticking.

Thanks to all who helped!
-Dale

[Anonymous]

I glued cardstock, equal in thickness to my AMI tacky roadbed and grey in color to match my ballast, to the underside of the ties in the "problem areas". I then ballast only up to the edge of this, so that right at the points and throwbar I have no ballast grains but the look of ties seated on top of ballast, just like the real thing. On the outside edge, I form a ballast shoulder against the edge of the cardboard, and carefully place a little bit of ballast around the ends of the ties. A side benefit of this method is that it gives me a solid surface under the points, which sits firmly against the subroadbed; ordinarily, the AMI roadbed lifts the track off the subroadbed by a variable amount, depending on how much pressure is applied when you set the track. The flat cardboard helps assure me that the switch is sitting level over the subroadbed. Also, it interrupts the AMI so there's no danger of that stuff getting into the mechanism.

I have mentioned this technique before, but that thread is long dead. BTW, I model in N-scale.

[BR60103]

Around here, CNR keeps the ballast very low right around the points and throwbar, but it gets up to or over the tops of the ties by thetime it gets to the frog.
Has anyone tried putting coarse sandpaper under the point area?