Regrets

[Anonymous]

Now that I am getting my feet wet and starting to get into the hobby I was hoping you all could share with me some of your regrets.  I already finding myself in the early stages of the hobby as having to give up some things in order to have others.  If you could do your layout again, what would you do different?  One of my  examples is not going DCC.  I plan to run the model by myself and the additional cost of DCC out weighed the benifits.  My other regret will be not running a new, modern GE locomotive pulling coalvayers, but I decided on the PRR.

Hopefully I can learn something from your regrets that I can apply to my first layout.  My dad always told me "You don't learn nothing by talking.  You learn stuff by listening." 

ferg

[PA Belt]

destoing some very old expensive engines when i was 7

[selector]

First, you may change your mind about DCC.  It is so much simpler to operate, and the added realism, at least for me, is a superiority it will likely always have over DC operations.  I am a lone operator, and would not be without it since I can run multiple trains and not have them chase each other or stop unrealistically when I forget to flick a switch.

My biggest regret, to address your question, is not tempering my initial enthusiasm enought to spend another few hours of reading, browsing, and planning.  We can't eliminate every error or regret, but I planned for no passing tracks, and I had no yard or staging trackage which made operating with all of my rolling stock impossible...much of it had to be stored until I redesigned the layout.  Also, I favour loops and lots of scenery and running trains, but it gets to be a bit much when they rotate, with me following, in the same direction all the time.  So, to turn the trains, you need a turning mechanism, such as a wye or a reversing loop or "S".  A turntable allows you to turn locomotives, but turning an entire train is nearly ridiculous that way.

[jacon12]

Disclaimer:  The folloing is my personal opinion.

My biggest regret so far is using Peco Insulfrog  turnouts instead of Walthers.  I've had nothing but problems (shorts at the frog).  I was at a friends layout the other day and saw the newer dcc friendly Walthers turnouts and how they were already 'gapped'.  Nice!

JaRRell

[ARTHILL]

Not going radio DCC from the start.

Trusting Ebay sellers

Selling my stuff 25 years ago when I thought I was getting out of HO.

Thinking I could get out of HO

 

 

 

[GearDrivenSteam]

My only real regret is starting out in HO to begin with. What a waste of time.

[whitman500]

On the micro level, my regrets usually revolve around not approaching layout construction methodically enough.  I find that I frequently fail to do things in precisely the right order and so create more work for myself later on.  As an example, when I was first laying track, I forgot to cut the holes for the under the track uncoupling ramps before gluing the track down.  Now I was able to go back and cut the holes out from underneath the track but it took probably twice as long and was much messier than if I had done things in the right order.  Similarly, I often find I don;t have everything I need when starting a project and so have to go back and add the missing component later on in a more time-consuming and awkward manner.

On a macro level, I sometimes regret my choice of roadnames.  The availability of equipment really varies between roads with ones like UP, PRR and ATSF having a huge range while I can't even find a caboose for my NP road.  I wish I had done some more research on this before going out and buying several expensive engines that locked me into my current road names.

[SilverSpike]

Regret: Buying rolling stock and structure items before I really knew what I was going to model.

What I learned: I plan, plan, and plan again. And I read anything I can get my hands on whatever my next project focus is on the layout. Then I spend a lot of time thinking through my next step, and five steps down the road, making sure I am following the most logical approach to addressing the project.

Regret: Putting model railroading on hiatus for over 10 years.

What I learned: Cherish every day and moment I have that I can spend on model railroading!

[Mark R.]

My biggest regret is actually two-fold, both regarding staging. Never again will my staging yards be hidden, requiring me to crawl under the bench-work to even see them let alone do any maintenance. Operating trains totally hidden from view, controlling unseen turnouts and relying on flashing lights on a control panel to know where your train is really isn't much fun. Second part (and I believe there is a written rule for it) what-ever you figure you'll need for staging, double it and add two !!! What I had when I started worked fine, but as the roster grew and operations ensued, lack of staging became quickly apparent.

Mark. 

[MAbruce]

Regret:  Not having enough money to do what I want.

What I Learned:  Play the lottery. 

Just kidding…  Well, not entirely.  

Mine is more of a ‘curse’ than a ‘regret’:  Having modeling aspirations that greatly exceed my resources.

[BRAKIE]

After 55 years in the hobby I regret tons of things.So,I will share my biggest regrets.

1.Not buying something I wanted when it was in hand.

2.My short voyage into DCC/Sound.That mistake cost me around $1200.00 for the following DCC system,extra throttles,Digi Traxx Sound Systems and the extra engines I bought to add DCC/Sound.What was I thinking?

3.Tearing out 2 very nice industrial switching layouts after some "big ideas"thoughts..Again what was I thinking?

4.Selling off my N&W collection.

5.Selling off my brass steam locomotive collection-this was done in 1977.

6.Not staying the course on several freelance short lines..

7.Buying a Kato NW2 clunker back in 92 and NOT sending it back.

8.Quiting a club after 4 years.

9.Being a nasty nit picker for several years.

10.Modeling to please everybody except myself.

The list goes on..

There are many things I never regretted changing and at the top of that heap is realizing I must model to please myself and not others and do what is right for me in the hobby...

 

[jfugate]

I'm having a hard time understanding how DCC could be a regret on a small layout. A small layout benefits greatly from DCC.

DCC allows tuning your loco performance *individually* and you get cool lighting effects right out of the box. With the NCE DSR13J decoders at $15 each (less in quantity) and a sweet pulse power tuning capability, you will be able to individually tune each loco to have slow running performance that is *SWE-E-E-T*.  Try individually tuning loco slow-speed performance this easily on DC for $15.

So there's the cost of the system. Well, okay, but to compare apples to apples, you want to get a deluxe DC powerpack with momentum and pulse power. A top of the line MRC Tech 4 pack with monentum and pulse power costs about $60 and to run two trains, you'll need two of them: $120 smackers right there. Now you will need a control panel with toggles and cab control wiring ... figure $50 for that. You're up to $170 -- a starter DCC system will cost you less than $150. If that's too rich for your blood, you can always get a Bachmann DCC system off ebay for about $60.

So I don't agree you'll save any money going DC unless you are really cheap and feel that locos which run train-set level performance is okay. Or plan on spending time taking locos apart and tuning mechanisms to get better-than-average performance.

If you're going to spend $100-$300 for a really nice loco these days, why not spend the extra $15 bucks for a decoder to get individually tunable performance? And buy one less loco and get yourself a DCC starter system.

Sorry, but I think the "can't afford DCC" argument is bogus.

[alco_fan]

Regrets:

#1 Buying stuff too soon before I needed it -- turned out I didn't need a lot of it and I lost some $$ on the resale

#2 Not building my last home layout as sections or modules when I already knew I had a move coming up.

#3 Not going to DCC sooner.

[simon1966]

Not painting my back drops before scenery etc!

Not paying enough attention to curve radius.

 

[Anonymous]

Right now bigest regret, Not having enough room to do what I would like.

Not geting into the hobby sooner.

Curt

[tomikawaTT]

I could make a list of "little" regrets as long as the card catalog of the local library, but the things that stand out as "big" regrets are:

1. Not preparing the layout space before filling it with benchwork.
2. Not building more modules and sections designed to be salvaged and re-used.
3. Not providing enough staging.  There is no such thing as too much staging!

Note that I only listed things over which I had control.  I don't regret the impact of unexpected medical expenses or unanticipated moves on my modeling activities - I am neither God nor the U.S. Air Force, and I don't waste time thinking about what might have been.  I need that time to think about where I want to go next - and starting in the right general direction.

Chuck (modeling central Japan in 1964 - since 1964)

[whitman500]

Not painting my back drops before scenery etc!

This is actually one of the biggest chicken and egg problems in the hobby.  Unless you really plan things out in advance, getting your backdrops done the right way before laying track or doing scenery is tough.  But at the same time, trying to paint them or install them while leaning over structures, etc. isn't much fun either.

[Stevert]

I'm having a hard time understanding how DCC could be a regret on a small layout. A small layout benefits greatly from DCC.

DCC allows tuning your loco performance *individually* and you get cool lighting effects right out of the box. With the NCE DSR13J decoders at $15 each (less in quantity) and a sweet pulse power tuning capability, you will be able to individually tune each loco to have slow running performance that is *SWE-E-E-T*.  Try individually tuning loco slow-speed performance this easily on DC for $15.

So there's the cost of the system. Well, okay, but to compare apples to apples, you want to get a deluxe DC powerpack with momentum and pulse power. A top of the line MRC Tech 4 pack with monentum and pulse power costs about $60 and to run two trains, you'll need two of them: $120 smackers right there. Now you will need a control panel with toggles and cab control wiring ... figure $50 for that. You're up to $170 -- a starter DCC system will cost you less than $150. If that's too rich for your blood, you can always get a Bachmann DCC system off ebay for about $60.

So I don't agree you'll save any money going DC unless you are really cheap and feel that locos which run train-set level performance is okay. Or plan on spending time taking locos apart and tuning mechanisms to get better-than-average performance.

If you're going to spend $100-$300 for a really nice loco these days, why not spend the extra $15 bucks for a decoder to get individually tunable performance? And buy one less loco and get yourself a DCC starter system.

Sorry, but I think the "can't afford DCC" argument is bogus.

What he said!

  My biggest regret was not starting out with DCC right from the beginning.  As Joe has put into words so well, even (especially?) a small layout can really benefit.  And, if you ever decide to go all-out, the sky's the limit.  With no apologies, my Digitrax Super Chief was hands-down the best MRR purchase I ever made.

Steve

[CSX_road_slug]

My main regrets:

1) Not fully preparing my layout space before erecting the benchwork

2) Not talking with other MRRs about my plans to build a layout in a 2-car garage before buying my current house (wound up spending megabuck$ for A/C and insulation)

3) Not reading track planning books by "The Masters" (John Armstrong, Tony Koester et al) before finalizing my plan and laying the track.  Now I have a layout that is merely 'ok' when it could have been 'great' (patience....patience....patience...)

 

[Milwhiawatha]

My regrets vary.

1. waiting till I was 18 to get into modeling railroading

2. My First DCC system MRC Command 2000

3. Buying MRC decoders.

4. Got interested in cutom Detailing HO (Addicting)

5. Custom Painting (Addicting)

6  not going Digitrax right away

7 Not reading up more when I started my first layout. wasted a lot of money on scenery etc materials.

 

[CSXFan]

Building an HO layout with 18" curves while planning to run modern 6 axel locos and superliner equipment.

Buying the cheapest DCC system and decoders I could find.

Not switching to DCC soon enough.

Not switching to N scale soon enough.

[BRAKIE]

Joe Fugate said I'm having a hard time understanding how DCC could be a regret on a small layout. A small layout benefits greatly from DCC.

DCC allows tuning your loco performance *individually* and you get cool lighting effects right out of the box. With the NCE DSR13J decoders at $15 each (less in quantity) and a sweet pulse power tuning capability, you will be able to individually tune each loco to have slow running performance that is *SWE-E-E-T*.  Try individually tuning loco slow-speed performance this easily on DC for $15.

========================================================

Joe,Since when was DCC needed to operate one engine? Most of todays locomotives are  smooth and slow runners from the box.

========================================================

So there's the cost of the system. Well, okay, but to compare apples to apples, you want to get a deluxe DC power pack with momentum and pulse power. A top of the line MRC Tech 4 pack with monentum and pulse power costs about $60 and to run two trains, you'll need two of them: $120 smackers right there. Now you will need a control panel with toggles and cab control wiring ... figure $50 for that. You're up to $170 -- a starter DCC system will cost you less than $150. If that's too rich for your blood, you can always get a Bachmann DCC system off ebay for about $60.

======================================================

Again,You are not adding the cost of decoders for EACH locomotive and extra throttles for real multi train operation.

=======================================================

So I don't agree you'll save any money going DC unless you are really cheap and feel that locos which run train-set level performance is okay. Or plan on spending time taking locos apart and tuning mechanisms to get better-than-average performance.

======================================================

That all depends..One can use a power pack and 2 wires even on 4x8 or large switching layouts.And since when did a Atlas,Kato,Genesis,P2K and Stwart operate like a train set engine on DC?

========================================================

If you're going to spend $100-$300 for a really nice loco these days, why not spend the extra $15 bucks for a decoder to get individually tunable performance? And buy one less loco and get yourself a DCC starter system.

=======================================================

Why not use the Quantum Engineer™ Controller  from Atlas  after all it will allow you to use all the sound and whistles?

=========================================================

Sorry, but I think the "can't afford DCC" argument is bogus.

Not really..The low end DCC isn't the best according to what I been reading on other forums.

With respect Joe,your argument doesn't hold water for knowledgeable modelers.

 

[tcf511]

There is more than one benefit to building your layout in some sort of modules. In addition to being able to salvage some or all when you move, you also don't have some of the challenges others face like this chicken and egg situation. With my layout, I can unbolt a section and pull it out to reach way in the back for something or to paint backdrops. There are trade-offs for going modular too. But that is a decision that so far, I don't regret.

[grayfox1119]

If money were not an issue, and fear of DCC ( electronics knowledge, however small ) was not an issue, nor the inability to install your own decoders, would you switch to DCC if you had an existing DC layout? If you were planning a new or first layout?

Don't be biased, answer truthfully now....

[tstage]

Maybe two minor things:

1. Not painting my foam base BEFORE laying my track.
2. Framing the 4 x 8 foam sheet instead of laying it on top - which would have made adding to or extending from it an easier proposition.

For the most part, I have very few regrets - even for my first layout.

Tom

[tomikawaTT]

If money were not an issue, and fear of DCC ( electronics knowledge, however small ) was not an issue, nor the inability to install your own decoders, would you switch to DCC if you had an existing DC layout? If you were planning a new or first layout? Don't be biased, answer truthfully now....

Even if I could afford several kilobucks to equip all of my powered rolling stock with decent-quality sound decoders, plus throttles (as many as I expect to have trains or light locos moving at any one time) and base stations/power boosters, I wouldn't.

Fear of electronics is not an issue.  I have a pretty piece of paper, with appropriate signatures and seals, that identify me as an Associate in Electronics, and another one that claims that I'm a Bachelor of Science in Data Processing.  That and a couple of quarters...

If I can kitbash locomotives out of any resemblance to their original prototypes, and assemble all kinds of electromechanical and small electronic devices from raw materials, installing a decoder is hardly a challenge.  On a scale of one to ten, it might reach two.

The layout now entering full construction is not my first, by a factor of close to sixty years!

So, why not?  Because I am a lone wolf and use a variety of tried and proven non-electronic automatic train control devices to operate a half-dozen trains at once.  I see DCC as a way to really act as if your jeans were rubbing on the seatbox - of ONE locomotive.  I am not a frustrated engineer (driver, MarkNewton!) and am much more interested in keeping an entire line operating to schedule than I am in getting one train over the road.  For my "givens and druthers," that means MZL, not DCC.

Chuck

[claycts]

Regrets:

1. Not checking further into the DCC pieces required for how I wanted my layout to operate

2. Not taking the extra time to talk with my wife about how much area I could take up. I used 850 sq ft and could have had the full 1800 sq ft of basement.

3. Trusting to many "EXPERTS" that advised me in person about how dumb I was not doing ________ fill in the blanks.

4. Not basing my design on a loose prototype would have saved me a ton of design time and money.

5. Not spending enough time in virtual 3D to find operation problems before construction.

6. Using Atlas #66 undertable machines. (used 6 and a CD system still had 4 go bad) (125 tortoise with ZERO problems)

7. Using OSB for sub roadbed

What was done right:

1. Using 3rd planet and AutoCadd to design and run the layout in 3D.

2. Asking question on this forum.

3. Finding that DCC is as good as stated IF you read the manuals and listen when someone trys to help you.

4. Taking out the OSB and going to plywood where possible.

5. Spending the money required to get ALL the parts for DCC and control system.

Benefits :

1. Meet some nice people from the forum who dropped by to see this thing

2. Blood perssure and blood sugar DOWN Weight Down 45 lbs.

3. Wife is now hooked on trains and we take rail trips.

4. Got a few popele started in the hobby by giving them some old thinsg that I did not need.

5. Havea nice group of friends that come over to help build this and run it

6. I learn something every time I visit this forum and others so tha I do not feel I am so old I am falling behind the times. "Did you know that Abe Lincoln was shot!"

I may have expanded on the spirit of this thread. BUT with REGRETS there are some Benefits.

[colvinbackshop]

grayfox1119...To answer your question: Yes! Yes!

I'm not a certified anything (OK...not exactly true, but I'm certainly not an electrical engineer) and yet I have been able to wire up the pike and have even installed  (hard wired) decoders in steam locos!

The best and worst (I'll address the "worst" in a moment) thing I've done regarding my railroad is to have gone DCC. Eventhough I have an "old" Digitrax BigBoy I am extremely satisfied with the system. It should be stated, however, that I have upgraded my system with radio throttles and a radio receiver.

 

RE: Regrets...

1)) I'm the type that will buy when I can afford. What that said, when Digitrax came out with the BigBoy (or at least soon after) I had the money and purchased the system. For many a year I only used it for testing decoders before installation because I didn't have a pike to run a train on! Now ten years latter I actually have some track down and I find that as DCC has progressed, I could have a much better (more bells and whistles) system for less than I paid way back when. On the other hand it still is operating great and will do everything I want / need it to do...It just cast me more!

2)) Buying structures before having a solid trackplan.

I had a very basic plan as to what I wanted to scenic on the pike and for the most part that still holds true today...But I also have A LOT of stuff in boxes that I most likely will never use and end up selling for a fraction of my cost.

[mikelhh]

 I know nothing...nothing...about DCC so I can't comment on that, except to say I wish I had the $ to try it. And yes, some of us are on such tight budgets that it IS out of the question. Believe me.

 But my main regret would be purchasing in the past older, jerky locos that cause no end of trouble. They play up like secondhand lawnmowers. They seem to be a cheaper way to go but what price can you put on reliability? They really do take the enjoyment out of it, and for about 6 yrs I reckon they put me off the hobby.

 Since purchasing my beloved Atlas SD-26 Silver series, one fine day when I had some cash, I haven't even dreamed about giving the old ones a run. Furthermore, the Atlas is so incredibly smooth and reliable, even with my 45 yr old Clipper DC controller,  and my dodgy track-laying, and my dirty track and my feed wires still jammed against the rails [not soldered] that I would challenge DCC's ability to run it smoother! I agree with Brakie - if that Atlas is anything to go by, today's locos are brilliant. Don't be tempted by the older stuff.

 Mike

[inch53]

 

Guess bout all my regrets has pretty well been covered in one post or another here already.

I've found that no matter how well you plan ahead, you still end up changing your mind, because it won't work or just don't look as good on the layout as it did on paper.

I've done like something buying ahead of the time you need it. Only to find it doesn't fit  or work where, or how, you wanted it to.

Not having enough room to do what I want is the same problem we all have. The wife say, if I had a 50 x 50 buliding it still wouldn't be big enough [she's right].

One regret I have is putting a couch in the train room. Would make a great staging are, but the grandkids won't let me take it out. They like to take naps there [me to]

I'm just glad to be in the hobby to have all the regrets and still enjoy it. Kinda like life in general.