Control Master 20 by MRC and if you like your MRC 9500?

[cudaken]

 Well as all most of you know I want more power for by board. This should have all the power I should ever need by specks.

 

 I asked local hobby shop about it and was told it was junk. He had 3 and 2 burned quick. How many people here have them and has there been problems?

 I bought a MRC 260 off E-bay, well it is junk. Luck was with me again and seller is sending me all the money back along with shipping cost. I have been very lucky with E-Bay buys.

 Not sure if I want to test my E-bay luck again and LHS has new MRC 260 for $59.99 and the thottle I have had my eye on for some time MRC 9500 for $79.95.

 I will be running two main lines with there own thottles. Till I go DCC I want power to run 3 to 4 old Blue Boxes with a heavy load. Many people has stated the MRC 2500 I am running is worn out and fading with the slow speed triple headed BB's run at with 45 cars up at 2% grade.

 As far as the MRC 2500 being fading out, well I have been told it is. But right now it is powering a triple headed PK train with 50 cars and a Athearn Super weight F-7A with no cars with only 16 VA. But when I added cars or the extra engine main traain slows down and I have been told that is due to lack of power.

 Before people here tell me to go DCC, I will after I master DC and I hate to say it I cannot afford 20 decoders.

 Rather it be a 9500 or another 2500 or a mer 1300 I will have a second thottle by Wednesday.

                           Cuda Ken

[dgwinup]

Ken,

You're probably right about the 2500 not having enough power for the load your putting it under.  They are usually good for two to four engines pulling a medium length train.

I like the features of the CM 20, but I've never used one.  The 9500 has lots more power than the 2500.  At $80, that's a good deal!

Even if you get a more powerful controller, hang on to the 2500 for a while in case you need it.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[cudaken]

 Darrell, Yes I hope to hang on to your 2500 as long as you let me! I was pretty darn happy with the the power till I was told it did not have suffcent power? Oh, the Momentum light burned out, sorry.

 With want a second thottle I would have been happy with a second 2500, but was told it had to little power for what I was wanting to do. I you are going to be around Maryville Tuesday or Wednesday maybe you can drop by. May need a barff bag but the board is running well.

                Your Friend Cuda Ken

[dbradley]

Ken

I have just converted to dcc. Before that I have modeled both HO and G gauge, the power pack I used was a control master 20. I never had a large layout in either gauge (11 by 16) but I never had any problems with the pack. It always seemed to have adequite power. If I remember it"s rated for 80 voltamps, which would be 4 amps at 20 volts for G gauge, 6.5 amps for HO and N (ther'es a selector). I liked the handheld controller even though it's tethered. Most Important it had what I think was called a flat line DC which the can motors seemed to work well (smooth and quiet). I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I'm hoping to help. The only problem with the pack is the length of the controller wire, it's only 20 ft, more and you can lose control signal.

P.S. You can almost tackweld with it if you short it out (not suggested).

Den.

[mlehman]

I have several CM20s. The only problem I ever had was after 10 years, the reversing relay in one of mine stuck in one direction. For a flat fee, somewhere around $40 IIRC, MRC repaired it and shipped it back to me in reasonably timely fashion.

The older version uses a fan for cooling, while the newer ones were re-engineered with really big heat sinks, so they are a bit quieter. However, some values were changed in the circuit, so you can NOT use the old controllers with the new version or you end up not being able to control the speed.

Extra controllers are available. Since you caould drop one and break it, I keep a spare. However, despite dropping my controllers a number of times over the years, none of them have failed and there aren't even any cracks in the palstics cases. The fact that they are so lightweight probably helps, as it doesn't get much momentum before it hits when you drop it from hand height.

The walkaround feature is great, except with the connectors being standard telephone jacks, unpluggingto move is a little less easy than it ought to be. But you can easily replace the cord if the connector goes bad, so that is a plus.  Don't buy too long a cord though. You need to keep the overall length of the circuit from controlled to the base to something like 40' IIRC. Otherwise, you gett too much resistance in the line, again causing loss of speed control. So if your control plug-in is near enough to the base, you can use a longer cord, but if its farther away, the extra long cords may cause a problem when you get past the maximum recommended control circuit length.

The wiring for the control circuit is just like phone wiring. I just went to the local big-box and got everything I needed for that. I used dual-jack wall plates, so my two cabs (A and B) each have a jack at every location.

And yes, you've got all the power you need. There's plenty of amperage. Then there's a switch that is marked for G scale, but essentially lets the control peak at 18 volts, I think, instead of the standard 12 volts. This might actually come in handy if you buy one of those new HO sound-equipped MTH engines that require the higher volatge to function correctly, but you'd want to be careful if you did so you don't feed the higher standard voltage to any motive poaer that shouldn't get it. It might not burn out a motor, but it might and the extra heat wouldn't help if it didn't outright burn out.

In sum, yes, I highly recommend the CM20 as reliable and well-built if you'll be sticking with DC for awhile.

[WSOR 3801]

The CM 20 works very nicely.  I've run 4-6 Athearns on it, no problems.  The club has 5 for the layout.  The walkaround part is nice, you can unplug, walk to the next plug-in and the train keeps running ("memory").  The one I am currently using at home (4x8) had the fan die, but puts out more than enough power.  MRC was called, and they said it would work just fine for my use.

There used to be a product called the "Hogger" on the market that was similar.  The club had some, but all died due to inferior quality.  The CM 20s have lasted longer under the same loads.

[Don Gibson]

Barra-Cuda Ken:

I don't believe the boys at MRC would agree with you that the Control Master 20 is 'Junk' - but anytime you're running any power pack  much over half with slow results, you are pulling too many amps. I would be checking the power pak for overheating, not the engine motors.

Problem is different engines pull different amps.  Older engines are the worst.

Old BB engines required anywhere from 0.5amp - 1.0 amps each just to run. They were not the worst - just the most prolific. Where we tend to equate power by ' how many engines/cars', when in truth it's the power supply. The consist merely drains it. VA's, formerly called 'Watts', do the work. ie: Load - vs. capacity.

Illustration: If we say Athearn BB engines average .75 amps each, do the math:   2 engines need 1.5 amps, 3 need 2.5. multiplied by 12 that's 18VA & 27 VA respectively.We won't count Accessories, Drag, or Inclines. You will never know - without meters since icreasing amps drops the voltage. That regulated Labratory supply pictured (was it you?) would certaily tell you.

 The (metered) MRC 9500 may  have enough VA's (depending on what you are pulling), but at least you'll know! Go from there. My club uses 9500's for all manned yards where they make up trains and add engines. (Members have a lot of Athearn BB equipment. In YOUR case a supply with meters would be helpfull, as well as improvement. Given your circumstances it is what I would buy.

[dacort]

Before I went DCC I ran the layout with a pair of ControlMaster 20's and they worked very reliably for over 10 years. I sold one on eBay after I got my DCC system, but I kept the other.

I am actually using that one now as the power supply for my Digitrax Chief, and it works great, plus I can still use it as a DC pack to test run new locomotives that don't have decoders yet.

[jamnest]

I had two MRC20s before changing to DCC about five years ago.  I remember that there was a defect in some of the MRC20s that could cause them to burn out.  One of my new MRC20s died after about 30min use.  I returned it for a a free replacement.  The new unit worked great.  When I moved to a new home I used the two MRC20s for my 25'x50' HO scale layout that ran the premiter of my basement.  The MRC20s worked great but I decided that DCC would be better.  I do not regret the change.  I sold the MRC20s to a guy in my MR club and they contine to work great on his layout.

JIM

[cudaken]

 Den, that was a sale pitch, you still have it? Let me know quick, I will have a second thottle soon. If you do post here yep I have it and them PM me.

 Don, I understand what you told me this time about the power needed for the older BB's. Running the Tripled head BB's was sort of a fluke, had them out so gave it a try. I will try to take the older BB's to K-10 and see how they do there on his DC line. He runs 9500's so that will give me a idea.

 I do watch how warm the thottle gets, I know power makes heat. Reason my Stereo Amps have a fan blowing across the heat sinks. With the triple headed BB's got pretty warm. Triple headed PK's and 1 Super Weight you can tell it is on but far from being warm.

 As far as lights and stuff, I use the thottle only for the engines. With all the cheap LL stuff I bought I have 4 blue transformers I use to power the light's. I use the DC side so I can turn the light down to make the bulbs last longer.

 On pulling the long trains, right now it more of away to messuer how well the cars, track and my self are doing. To be honest 50 freight cars and trippled headed Eries and E-6's is a little long for a 19 foot board.

 By the way Don, my Cuda is a 70. Only places it say Barracuda is on the Dash Pad. All the emblems on the car says CUDA'. Barracudas came with 225 slat 6's, 318's or 383 2 barrel's and flat hoods. CUDA'S came with ,383 HP's, no cost down grade 340's HP's 440's HP 4 barrels or 6 Barrels (Six Pack was a Dodge name) and then the 426 Hemi. Mine was made as a 340 car but has a Big Block 383 in it. In the Mopar world calling me Barracuda Ken is sort of a insalt.  More than likely you would not have knowen this but on a Mopar Board sort of a slap in the faces.

 Thanks alot Don and other people that have taken the time to teach me some of the way of the rails.

                    Cuda Ken

[twhite]

If your LHS had three and two of them burned out quick, he probably didn't realize that it has a double switch, one for N/HO and the other for G and got them mixed up.  The Yuba River Sub has been running on a Controlmaster 20 for the past five years and it's the most trouble-free pack I've ever owned.  When I got several BLI locos that needed a higher starting voltage, I phoned RMC and the person there told me to just flip on the 'nudge' switch to get them to respond with more range.  Did so, they all work just fine, thank you.  One thing I did find out that using coiled telephone line to get the full 25 foot range of the controller doesn't work that well for me--get the straight phone cable.  A little more messy to toss around when you're walking around the layout, but it does the job without any power drop at all.  Good controller, best I've found--it AIN'T JUNK!  All you have to do is spend a little time getting used to it.

Tom

[dbradley]

Ken,

Sorry Ken, I didn't want to give you the impression that I wanted to sell it. My son tryed to get it too,(no dice) I use it for testing and the Christmas tree trains, I also figure I can use as a base backup for my dcc if I losed the original power unit.

(sorry) Den.

[BRAKIE]

Cuda Ken,The club tat I am a member of has been using CM20s since 92..And since 92 we been operating twice a week and never had a CM20 to fail.

I suppose your LHS guy tried to sell you a DCC system?

[rrebell]

Got three mrc 2500, no problems, got two on ebay for about $15 each. Also have a train power with walk around phone plugs, never used the walk around though because i bought it used and former owner cut off  the phone plug on the remote, not quite sure of the end wireing so havn't tryed to fix.

[1train1]

I've got two CM 20's and they are fantastic and easy to operate. More than enough juice nad as you can see by everyone else, durable in most cases. I can't afford to convert 51 locos to DCC so I'll stand on what I have. I previously had a Tech 4 which bit the dust, was repaired and bit it again. Now that was a POS.

My 2 Canadian cents which is I.86 USD

[jrbernier]

  Ken,

  Like others, I have used the Control Master 20's for over 15 years.  My pair are still good.  I now have DCC, but they were the best DC power units I ever had.  Never had 'tacked' reversing relays, and I had jacks over 20' on either side of the units along the layout.  Never lost control of engines.  I really liked the hand-held format.  With 'walk-around' layout design, this throttle really hit the spot.

 

Jim

[cudaken]

 Den, that is all right. LHS did not have the MC 20, but did have a MRC 6200 and it sitting here next to me. For $84.99 was the best bang for the buck. K-10 could have got me the MC 20 for $150.00 but like I said, I was getting a second thottle.

 In HO scale, I have 52 VA so that should handle about anything I throw at it for now.

 As far as K-10 Trains (Ken the owner) has not pushed me toward DCC.  He knows I am early in the learing curve. He all so has alot of lines on his 60 X 80 bench that is still DC. Most powered my 9 MRC 9500's but one uses a MRC 2600.

 All so showed me a radio controled hand held that will work the MRC 2600 and other DC thottles! Never knew they made them or I would have all ready had one. For $79.95 seems like a must.

 

         Cuda Ken