Probably the second most common post on this site has to do with the high cost of Model Railroading. I say it doesn't matter.
A wise man once said,
"Whether you think you can
or you think you can't
you are right."
What I am saying is that whether or no you can afford model railroading is based upon you thoughts about it. If you constantly think of how you can't afford model railroading you will not be able to afford it. If you think about how easy it is to come by what you need, that will be the way it happens. What you think manifests.
It is as easy as that. Or as difficult.
In other words, you can be in control of your world, or a victim of it--it all depends on how you visualize it.
If you think you can't afford it, you are right.
If you think you can afford it, you are right.
Writing about it makes you even more right.
The Law of Attraction works no matter what your income level. If you visualize what you desire as if it is already yours, you will get it.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
It all depends on what's on my givens-n-druthers list. If one of my 'givens' was to keep up with the Joneses regarding layout size and latest/greatest technology, I probably would need to take out a second mortgage to pay for it all.
OTOH, I can always find a way to comfortably afford a layout that's good enough just for me and my 7yr-old daughter [the only other family member interested in my trains].
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
GearDrivenSteam wrote:I say compare it to other hobbies. It's probably right in line....or in my case way cheaper than some or most. Model Railroading replaced drag racing for me, so it's a no brainer. It's way cheaper than drag racing. Not only that, but my wife has actually become involved with my hobby.
--to say nothing of the reduced costs for insurances.
SpaceMouse wrote: Probably the second most common post on this site has to do with the high cost of Model Railroading. I say it doesn't matter. What I am saying is that whether or no you can afford model railroading is based upon you thoughts about it. If you constantly think of how you can't afford model railroading you will not be able to afford it. If you think about how easy it is to come by what you need, that will be the way it happens. What you think manifests.
A classic "newbie's" outlook on whether or not the hobby really is becoming less affordable or that the idea arrises simply out of an individual's take on matters.
Wait until you are in the hobby for a decade or two instead of just 18 months, Chip, and then, after watching the prices of items you want/need spiral ever higher (as they have during the past decade more than at any time in the last 50 years) and out of reach of your dispossable income bracket, come back to assess your statements. I'll guarantee you'll have a much more sobering outlook on the matter once you've gained some experience.
CNJ831
CNJ831 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Probably the second most common post on this site has to do with the high cost of Model Railroading. I say it doesn't matter. What I am saying is that whether or no you can afford model railroading is based upon you thoughts about it. If you constantly think of how you can't afford model railroading you will not be able to afford it. If you think about how easy it is to come by what you need, that will be the way it happens. What you think manifests. A classic "newbie's" outlook on whether or not the hobby really is becoming less affordable or that the idea arrises simply out of an individual's take on matters. Wait until you are in the hobby for a decade or two instead of just 18 months, Chip, and then, after watching the prices of items you want/need spiral ever higher (as they have during the past decade more than at any time in the last 50 years) and out of reach of your dispossable income bracket, come back to assess your statements. I'll guarantee you'll have a much more sobering outlook on the matter once you've gained some experience. CNJ831
If you read what I am saying, you'll see that the Law of Attraction has little to do with Model Railroading and more to do with liviing life.
You choose to see everything I say as insignificant because I have been in the hobby for only a short time. This allows you the opportunity to miss the point of what I am saying. Life is how you envision it, so you see me as flittering twerp. What you envision is your reality. Change your vision and a whole new world opens up.
As for the changing cost of living. If you think you can afford it you can. If you think you can't you can't. Either way you are right. I've made my choice and you yours.
Sorry, but haven't we had enough of this issue after 13 or so pages on the other topic (which is still going)?
MAbruce wrote: Sorry, but haven't we had enough of this issue after 17 or so pages on the other topic (which is still going)?
Sorry, but haven't we had enough of this issue after 17 or so pages on the other topic (which is still going)?
Possibly, but I don't see it as the same topic. Related yes, but not the same.
SpaceMouse wrote: A wise man once said, "Whether you think you can or you think you can't you are right." The Law of Attraction works no matter what your income level. If you visualize what you desire as if it is already yours, you will get it.
Stone cold groove Mouse.
Well, I look at this way, which is the reason I thinik I have stayed away from the yacking and complaining about the prices.
This hobby of ours, The Worlds Greatest Hobby, has been around like a 125 years or something? 100 years?
Well, I am pretty sure that the very first day that somone put somebody's train on the shelf for sale, someone walked up and looked at it said. "My gosh, that's exspensive."
All in all, its a freakin cheap hobby if you think of the amount of time of enjoyment versus cost (TOE=C) you get out of your purchase compared to others. Others hobbies, only in season for awhile, or sports equipment changes, new technonlgy renders your stuff useless, and it goes on and on. I have a Athearn Blue Box car on my alyout that belonged to my great uncle, it has to be 30 years old,...not bad for a 5-10 buck purchase (today's prices) The TOEvC is huge thing for me when haveing to part with money on a purchase. Knowing that I could have this for the rest of my life, makes it much easier, or even encourage some my purchases...
I agree and have noticed the prices going up in the last couple years. But on the other hand, if you are on a budget, you can still find deals, either on the internet, swap meets, paper, yard sales, etc. and do it a on a budget. And, in some ways, I have also seen prices come down on some things. I have noticed the average cost on some of the RTR stuff, such Athearn, has come down a little. You can find DCC and sound equipped engines on closeouts for 130 instead of the 200-300 when they first came out.
Anyways, there is my 2 cents.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
SpaceMouse wrote: If you read what I am saying, you'll see that the Law of Attraction has little to do with Model Railroading and more to do with liviing life. You choose to see everything I say as insignificant because I have been in the hobby for only a short time. This allows you the opportunity to miss the point of what I am saying. Life is how you envision it, so you see me as flittering twerp. What you envision is your reality. Change your vision and a whole new world opens up. As for the changing cost of living. If you think you can afford it you can. If you think you can't you can't. Either way you are right. I've made my choice and you yours.
Unfortunately, Chip, when bright philosophies and Pollyanna outlooks on things meet up with financial realities, it usually results in trouble. I've known more than a few acqaintances who boasted, "I'm well able to afford..." or "I'll have no problems meeting my financial commitments if I buy..." A number of them are now divorced and/or in bankruptcy...two as a direct result of their involvement and expenses with model railroading. They thought their outlooks were viable too.
SpaceMouse wrote: MAbruce wrote: Sorry, but haven't we had enough of this issue after 17 or so pages on the other topic (which is still going)? Possibly, but I don't see it as the same topic. Related yes, but not the same.
Related?
Yeah, right… Nice spin.
Chip, I think you’ve been watching WAY too much PBS!
Turn off the TV and step away from the remote.
No offense, but I'm wondering if Eeyore is behind CNJ831's posts... Such doom and gloom! I've been in the hobby a little over two decades and I think Chip has as much right as me (or you) to form an opinion on this issue. That "newbie" garbage gets old quick. This isn't a fraternal organization where we beat freshman, and it's not a police force where we haze the rookies. Let's stop with the "you don't count until you've done as much as me" stuff please.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
What's to get? Either you can or can't. It's obvious you know what you can afford when you are after something, a car, house, or model trains. Most of us in this hobby are guilty of over consumption, too many cars,engines, buildings.etc and still want more. Like guys with 6 foot tall tool chest with every wrench made, or every power tool in the workshop or every golf club, you don't really need them all, but.... You say jusy visulize something and it yours? Well I want a inground swimming pool so I'm gonna just "visulize" Chip, open a window in the hobby room, you're sitting way to close to the glue bottle............
CNJ831 wrote: Unfortunately, Chip, when bright philosophies and Pollyanna outlooks on things meet up with financial realities, it usually results in trouble. I've known more than a few acqaintances who boasted, "I'm well able to afford..." or "I'll have no problems meeting my financial commitments if I buy..." A number of them are now divorced and/or in bankruptcy...two as a direct result of their involvement and expenses with model railroading. They thought their outlooks were viable too. CNJ831
You talk of reality like you own it. And you do--sort of. It works for you sand so you proclaim it with certainty. But what is this "finacial reality" you speak of?. Are you not in control of it--or do you control it? Who fixes a "fixed" income: the government?; God? or you? If push came to shove could you not earn more for your time or are you stuck forever?
Polyanna? Maybe. But I would rather think that our reality is the outcome of our expectations. Control our expectations and your reality shifts. You can continue your expectaion of doom and gloom. That is your choice, not mine.
Bruce and Mike,
While I intended to introduce a topic, I have no real desire to change your mind. However, what I am talking about here is not "bright philosophy", but rather quantum mechanics. Thought as energy influnces matter as energy. This has been demonstrated scientifically. Water crystals form different patterns based upon the thought directed towards them. While I could give a rudementary explanation of more complex quantum relationships, it would be full of holes. Rather I would suggest you beg, borrowing or stealing a copy of the movie, "What the Bleep do we know?" and let the world's top scientists explain it to you. Don't worry. They use common everyday language and show examples.
But yes, if you imagine a swimming pool and expect it to become part of your reality, the path to getting you one will unfold.
I would add my thoughts to those above but the ever increasing cost of computers and Internet connections might cost me my marriage.
Personally, I will build what I want, the way I want and do it as inexpensively as I find my tastes allow. The bad news is that I will have to save for some, buy used for some others and look for deals under every rock and bush I pass. The good news is that in twenty years I can gloat because everything I have purchased today will be mine and it will have cost one tenth what it costs in that day and age.
BTW I have built now three pikes, the initial pair in N-scale, now in HO and have fifteen years experience in railroad modelling to go with the half century of life experience I have endured.
My oldest daughter freaked out when she learned that her two bedroom apartment in Brooklyn was going to cost $1350 a month on top of her tuition at John Jay College but we decided that getting her Masters in Psychology was an important step toward her dream of having her Doctorate in Criminal Psychology. She just a bit ago, i mean this morning, called me from Times Square, happy as a lark and getting the tuition covered and the rent paid six months ahead broke neither the bank, my back, my railroading nor my marriage. Life is what you make of it. Chip is right and the nay-sayers are just trying to drag everyone else down to their level or below in an attempt to feel superior.
So, if all you can do is rant and rave about the high cost of railroad modelling, cut your losses now. Sell everything, get a pair of field glasses, take up bird watching, slam the door of your cardboard box and deal with your meager, albeit affordable life. Don't lecture me on how to enjoy my life 'cause I'm doing that quite well already.
dwRavenstar (building a gravel pit today with less than $10 in materials)
Hm.
I can't afford a Lamborghini, but somehow I am able to own a car.
I can't afford a gigantic club layout built in its own free-standing structure separate from my house, but somehow I am able to have a 20 square foot shelf layout that is slowly growing around the perimeter of my garage.
I can't afford to buy every brass MTH Sacramento Northern steeplecab that comes up on eBay, but somehow I have cobbled together a stable of small locomotives appropriate to my prototype large enough that some of them just don't get run regularly enough.
I can't afford all the wonderful custom-built LaserKit structures or RTR rolling stock that I could want, but somehow I wound up with a fairly large shelf filled with unbuilt structures and rolling stock kits, maybe a sixth of which I paid retail for.
It isn't a question of "Can I afford this hobby?" but "How much of this hobby can I afford?"
While I am younger than many on this forum, I do have more than a quarter century of experience in model railroading, model building, and train-watching, so I do feel a bit qualified to comment on the changing tides of the hobby. Prices are going up because prices are going up for everything. They're going up in particular because model railroading seems to be gaining in popularity in the past couple of years, at least from what I have seen from the increase in attendance at train shows, at railroad museums, even in the local hobby shop.
There are plenty of ways to make this a cheap hobby if you want to. Scour those clearance shelves, get creative with your use of household and craft items, be willing to monkey with less-expensive items and build kits instead of going RTR, and most importantly go dig up old copies of MR (I find them all the time, for anywhere from a dime to a dollar apiece), the older the better, from the era when they still ran "dollar model" projects you could build at home. And you know what? For the most part, if it cost a dollar in 1956, odds are it's going to cost around $5-10 in 2006 if you have more than an ounce of gumption or creativity.
Bankruptcy from model railroading? That must be a real wacky-but-true tale...I remember hearing about guys who missed paying their rent because they spent too much on Magic: the Gathering cards, or going broke because they got fired staying home playing online MMORPGs, but never a bankruptcy from model railroading. I'd like to hear the story on those...odds are, my own layout won't put me in the poorhouse anytime soon, unless I build a model one.
SpaceMouse wrote: Bruce and Mike, While I intended to introduce a topic, I have no real desire to change your mind. However, what I am talking about here is not "bright philosophy", but rather quantum mechanics. Thought as energy influnces matter as energy. This has been demonstrated scientifically. Water crystals form different patterns based upon the thought directed towards them. While I could give a rudementary explanation of more complex quantum relationships, it would be full of holes. Rather I would suggest you beg, borrowing or stealing a copy of the movie, "What the Bleep do we know?" and let the world's top scientists explain it to you. Don't worry. They use common everyday language and show examples.
Qauntum mechanics? No - more like pretentious new age psychobabble.
BTW: Your must-see movie was produced and directed by students of 'Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment’ (Ramtha is the 35,000 year old god of Atlantis).
I'd rather keep the discussion on Model Railroading, and not on some bizzare philosophy being pushed by the New Agers (ie Religion), thank you.
I want toy trains.
I can't buy the trains I want.
Therefore the train manufacturers are rip-off artists.
That about sum it all up?
MAbruce wrote: Qauntum mechanics? No - more like pretentious new age psychobabble. BTW: Your must-see movie was produced and directed by students of 'Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment’ (Ramtha is the 35,000 year old god of Atlantis).
New Age--I haven't heard that term for 20 years.
Although these people may not have your take on quantum physics in mind, they have certainly earned the right to be heard.
The psychobablists:
John Hagelin, Ph.D. is a world-renowned quantum physicist, educator, author, and public policy expert. Dr. Hagelin has conducted pioneering research at CERN (the European Center for Particle Physics) and SLAC (the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center) and is responsible for the development of a highly successful grand unified field theory based on the Superstring. In his book, Manual for a Perfect Government, Dr. Hagelin shows how, through educational programs that develop human consciousness, and through policies and programs that effectively harness the laws of nature, it is possible to solve acute social problems and enhance governmental effectiveness.
In recognition of his outstanding achievements, Dr. Hagelin was named winner of the prestigious Kilby Award, which recognizes scientists who have made "major contributions to society through their applied research in the fields of science and technology." The award recognized Dr. Hagelin as "a scientist in the tradition of Einstein, Jeans, Bohr and Eddington."
Dr. Hagelin holds an A.B. summa *** laude from Dartmouth College and an M.A. and Ph.D. from Harvard University.
William Tiller, Ph.D. graduated with a B.A.Sc. in 1952 with a degree in Engineering Physics from the University of Toronto. He also has an M.A.Sc. and a Ph.D. from the University of Toronto. He worked for nine years in the Westinghouse Research Laboratory with theoretical and experimental investigation into the detailed physics of the freezing process of a wide range of materials; i. e., water, metals, semiconductors, oxides and polymers. He also investigated the relationships between the crystallization process and the detailed structure and properties of the solid. He exploited this knowledge of crystallization to generate new processes for ingot casting, material purification, single crystal growth, chemical crystallizers, etc.
Dr. Tiller has been a professor at Stanford University in the Department of materials science and Engineering. He has been a consultant to government and industry in the fields of metallurgy and solid-state physics and formerly Associate Editor of 2 scientific journals. He has published more than 250 scientific papers, three technical books and has five patents issued. His fields of specialization are crystal growth, surfaces and interfaces, physical metallurgy, semiconductor processing, thin film formation, computer simulation and psychoenergetics (70 additional publications in this area).
Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D. is a physicist, writer, and lecturer who earned his Ph.D. in theoretical physics at UCLA in 1963. His work in quantum physics and consciousness is well known through his popular and scientific writing. He is the author of eleven books.Dr. Wolf's fascination with the world of physics began one afternoon as a child at a local matinee, when the newsreel revealed the awesome power and might of the world's first atomic explosion. This fascination continued, leading Wolf to study mathematics and physics. After he received his Ph.D. he began researching the field of high atmospheric particle behavior following a nuclear explosion and worked on Projection Orion-a nuclear propulsion scheme designed for deep space exploration. Wolf's inquiring mind has delved into the relationship between human consciousness, psychology, physiology, the mystical, and the spiritual. His investigations have taken him from intimate discussions with physicist David Bohm to the magical and mysterious jungles of Peru, from master classes with Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman to the high deserts of Mexico, from a significant meeting with Werner Heisenberg to the hot coals of a fire walk.In academia, Dr. Wolf has challenged minds at San Diego State University, the University of Paris, the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, the University of London, Birkbeck College, and many other institutions of higher learning.
BTW: This discussion is about Model Railroading, but if you challenge my assumptions, I have a right to defend them.
selector wrote: I want toy trains. I can't buy the trains I want. Therefore the train manufacturers are rip-off artists. That about sum it all up?
Nailed it!
You ain't jokin. LOL
selector wrote: GearDrivenSteam wrote:I say compare it to other hobbies. It's probably right in line....or in my case way cheaper than some or most. Model Railroading replaced drag racing for me, so it's a no brainer. It's way cheaper than drag racing. Not only that, but my wife has actually become involved with my hobby. --to say nothing of the reduced costs for insurances.
BXCARMIKE wrote:chip, your philosophy of cans and can nots leaves out one important part, the what am I going to do to so I " can " make it happen? and that's how it all works, We all want more, but what are we willing to do to get it?
That's kind of a given--get an idea of what you want, then figure out how to get it, rather than complaining about why you can't have it. Part of "creative visualization" is having something to visualize.
Dr. Theodore Kaczynski graduated from Harvard University in 1962 with a B.S. in mathematics; he also has an M.S. and a Ph.D. in mathematics from the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. He earned his Ph.D. by solving, in less than a year, a math problem that his thesis advisor had been unable to answer. A specialist in geometric function theory, Dr. Kaczynski received a $100 prize in 1967 for the top thesis of the year in the University system. He has held a National Science Foundation fellowship and teaching positions at the University of Michigan and the University of California at Berkeley. He is an expert on Joseph COnrad's work, and has published seven papers and is the author of Industrial Society and Its Future, perhaps the most widely disseminated and read piece of work in its class. He has challenged minds at the University of California, Brigham Young University, Yale University, and the J. Edgar Hoover Building of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. He is currently domiciled in Florence, Colorado.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Jetrock wrote: BXCARMIKE wrote:chip, your philosophy of cans and can nots leaves out one important part, the what am I going to do to so I " can " make it happen? and that's how it all works, We all want more, but what are we willing to do to get it? That's kind of a given--get an idea of what you want, then figure out how to get it, rather than complaining about why you can't have it. Part of "creative visualization" is having something to visualize.
And for those of you that have read Napoleon Hill.
First you determine exactly what you want. Then you decide what it is you are willing to give in return.
BTW: Napoleon Hill's book Think and Grow Rich was written after he used the priciples to accumulate 7 million dollars in the early 1930's--the height of the Depression.