OK, I know they are junk but is there away to make them a little better? I am cutting the coupler boxes off and using Kadee boxes and # 5's as I can. I have all so tuned the trucks and installing either PK 2000 or Atlas metal axels.
Some of the trucks fit lose and need's some help to fit better. I know, I know they are junk and throw away. But besides that any idea's?
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
What type problems are you having? You have replaced the wheels and axles, and moved the couplers, so there is not much left to go wrong. Are they bent? All they have to do is hold the wheels in place and hold the car up. On real railroad cars, the bodies just basically sit on the trucks.
I do not like to jump to conclusions, but it sure sounds like you have trackwork issues there buddy. Crappy cars will roll okay on good track, but a Division Point locomotive wll have trouble with crappy track. In fact, in many cases, the better the locomotive and/or rolling stock, the better the track HAS to be for the to run right. I still have a few cheapie cars (like $1.00 each, years ago) that still have the push-in split stud mounting talgo trucks, with couplers on them, and some have not even had the wheels replaced, and they run fine. Not at all prototypical, I bought a lot of coal hoppers and painted them black and decalled them N&W to get a big train together years ago, and I still use them occassionally, or I did until I moved. They do all have knuckle couplers in the truck mounted boxes however.
I would make me up a test car or train, ideally a too light Bachmann or Rivarossi 85 footer passenger car, or 5 or 6, with some of the skinny scale width wheels, and KEEP the truck mounted couplers. When you can PUSH and pull that around the track at a pretty good clip (ideally with a tight eight coupled steam locomotive - in reverse) with no derailments, your trackwork is 95% there. Seriously, good trackwork is the very first think to strive to achieve so you can enjoy the trains and not always have to be be problem solving. Took me awhile to learn this when I was starting out, but my first engine was a brass 4-8-4, and she was a tough teacher. But, when I made her happy, everything else was too.
Good luck.
Ken,
You need to remove the Talgo truck and plug the large hole. You can use a plastic rod. Drill and tap the hole for a 2-56. Mount the top of Kadee #5 box over the hole. Then get some Athearn or Walthers trucks at the LHS. You will now have the same basic setup that Athearn uses. I used this method to fix all my Tyco and LL cars. This change, along with body mounted Kadees, wheels in gauge and good track work will go a long way toward reliable operation.
Jim
Ken, just because it's a talgo truck doesn't necessarily mean it's a poor quality one, however most of them made for train sets in the 80's or later do fall into this category. The talgo design dates back to early days of model railroads to allow the cars to run on sharp trainset curves. Yes, I'm old enough to remember 18 inch, and even 15 inch radius snap track. For a time, Tyco had a good rolling talgo truck made of Delrin (and later Selcon) plastic. They were available as aftermarket parts in a plastic blister pack with a pin to allow pushin installation (most trucks were screw mounted back then). The easy way to spot these is they are all plastic, except the axles. These date back to the late 60's and early 70's. Kadee even makes an adaptor to mount the #5 style coupler in the existing pocket.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page146.htm
If you have these and object to the talgo feature, the coupler arm can be cut off and the coupler body mounted.
Soo Line fan wrote:Ken, You need to remove the Talgo truck and plug the large hole. You can use a plastic rod. Drill and tap the hole for a 2-56. Mount the top of Kadee #5 box over the hole. Then get some Athearn or Walthers trucks at the LHS. You will now have the same basic setup that Athearn uses. I used this method to fix all my Tyco and LL cars. This change, along with body mounted Kadees, wheels in gauge and good track work will go a long way toward reliable operation. Jim
cudaken wrote: OK, I know they are junk but is there away to make them a little better? I am cutting the coupler boxes off and using Kadee boxes and # 5's as I can. I have all so tuned the trucks and installing either PK 2000 or Atlas metal axels. Some of the trucks fit lose and need's some help to fit better. I know, I know they are junk and throw away. But besides that any idea's?
Do you mean the wheels are falling out? If that's it, I think there are a few manufacturers that make special length axles that should fit.
Now if you're talking about IHC trucks...well...about all you can do is replace those. They have holes that only the IHC wheels will fit in. Needle point bearing axles won't fit.
_________________________________________________________________
get rid of the talgo trucks..they're gonna be nothing but trouble...here is my webpage site that explains step by step instructions with pictures how to fit a car with new trucks if you won't mind checking it out...explanations are in the lower right hand of the picture and just click the next button to go thru the series of pictures..i know i'm showing how to mount kadee bettendorf 50 ton trucks in the pictures but atlas or intermountain make better trucks than the kadee trucks..the kadee truck is too springy and can cause derailments if they hit a turnout just right...chuck
http://community.webshots.com/photo/137793353/1300555227055249160CpifsB
What is a IHC truck?
Main problem is some no longer fit tight. Seems very lose and few want to sort of fall off. Plus a few I messed up when I tuned them, much better at it now. Need to find some to fill the bosster's so I can re drill.
Ken
Jim, I have no idea what you said?
"You need to remove the Talgo truck and plug the large hole. You can use a plastic rod. Drill and tap the hole for a 2-56. Mount the top of Kadee #5 box over the hole".
From what I have read it sounds like I need to plug the truck hole and mount a coupler box on them?
Soory I not that bright yet, but I am learing.
cudaken wrote: What is a IHC truck? Main problem is some no longer fit tight. Seems very lose and few want to sort of fall off. Plus a few I messed up when I tuned them, much better at it now. Need to find some to fill the bosster's so I can re drill. Ken
IHC= International Hobby Corporation, a brand of models that used to be called AHM (Associated Hobby Manufacturers). They used to import a lot of Rivarossi and other European made models. Not sure what they have now.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
cudaken wrote: Jim, I have no idea what you said? "You need to remove the Talgo truck and plug the large hole. You can use a plastic rod. Drill and tap the hole for a 2-56. Mount the top of Kadee #5 box over the hole". From what I have read it sounds like I need to plug the truck hole and mount a coupler box on them? Soory I not that bright yet, but I am learing. Cuda Ken
You have it right. The top lid of a Kadee #5 box gives a collar for the replacement truck to ride on. Remove a Athearn truck and you will see a collar molded into the underframe for the truck to mount to. That is what you are trying to achieve by plugging the large hole and placing the coupler lid over the hole.
I can think of one good use for the Tyco talgos, they make great projectiles.
cudaken wrote: OK, I know they are junk but is there away to make them a little better? . But besides that any idea's? - Cuda Ken
OK, I know they are junk but is there away to make them a little better? . But besides that any idea's? - Cuda Ken
KEN:
1. You ask for assistance, help, "ideas", but don't really take them.
2. You "know they are junk" but want to make them better?
TALGOS: The PROBLEM is their design! They push the wheels off the track.
'Push pins' are loose - axles fall out - and you want to make them better?
TIME and MONEY spent on poorly designed products is correcting someone elses mistakes. THEY'RE also CHEAP! Perhaps 'Scotch Tape' is a better answer.
(Better buy a big roll).
I think in oue of your earlier posts you showed what looked like a drag car you are or were working on.
If you were to put say 13" wheels and 5" wide tires on such a car, could you post some quick ETs at a drag strip? Certainly not. If the power can't get to the ground, using or trying to fix up the teeny tires won't do you one bit of good no matter what you do.
Talgo trucks come with toy train sets because they are cheap to produce and assemble. Most toy train sets are thought of as being disposable - kids get tired of them before too long and they are junked. Keep this in mind when trying to spruce up your talgo trucks.
Bob Boudreau
(former drag race photographer)
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
On the small tires on a drag car, well that is why I asked this question in a away. If all I could afford a small say 5" wide tire, I know that a lower tire pressuer will help hook up. Do a burn out at say 25 PSI and look at the contact patch on the payment. Go to say 23 PSI and repeat, go to 20 PSI and do the same again. When I see the best contact patch, I know I have the best traction I am going to get. Rather have 15" slicks, but some times you have to run what you brung.
Don, beleive it or not I have been listening, I have been cutting of the stock coupler boxes on the TALGOS trucks and going with Kadee's. Up grading wheels and tuning trucks as I can go.
I think I may have a idea to make the Talgos fit tighter and will test later. If the washers that are made to rasie the cars weight on Athearn will fit the neck of the Talgos push pin that will take out some of the slop. With shell off, use say a rail nail or some scrap to shove into the slot of the mounting pin with a little gule. That might help some what.
By the way, on the small tires again, I forget the class it is called but there in one that limts the tire to 8" max and must be DOT aproved. They can cut 10's. That is Zero to 120 MPH in 10 seconds. That is Hot Rodding.
Thanks for all the help folks, sorry I don't want to stop beating on the dead horse, but I think that is how they invented PCR.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Couldn't Ken:
YOUR Prolem is threefold.
1. You bought a bunch of equipment that doesn't work well -
2. You don't have the knowledge on how to to fix it -
3. You are frustrated - who wouldn't be?
ALL THE ABOVE IS FIXABLE - if you think it worth the trouble and cost to do so. Therin lies the rub.
You will need to correct inherent problems and correct them individually - by aquiring some tools and learning to use them. To wit: Kaydee and NMRA gauges. Both come with instructions, plus both have Web sites.
1. If your track has flaws: correct them. Or nothing will work right
2. Cars with body mounted couplers: convert to KD's with correct heights. You have been sent posts on how to do this.
3. Establish a standard for trucks.Trucks' include wheels, axles, and sideframes. These have to match as the combination affects rolling. I recommend a set of Kato and Atlas 33" freight trucks for comparison.
4. Cars with Talgo trucks: are often cheaply made. Cutting off the coupler pocket and mounting a KD #5 may not be enough. I would suggest saving these for last. Any cheaply made care will roll well with weighting and good trucks added. With new cars available for $15 today, are yours worth it?
5. ENGINES bought off of Ebay are 'Garage Sale' and too often come with other people's problems. Want EXAMPLE?: ... if you sell your equipment.
Your history of purchasing tells me you have earned PT Barnum's famous quote.No wonder you are frustrated. SHOW me I'm wrong.
I know what partof the problem is, you folks don't read all my postings and I cannot blame you. What you folks have missed is I been having great luck with following the tip's I have been given. In 60 hours of run time I have had only some what of a nasty derail, and it was not that bad either. A 14" Rivarossi passanger car caught tip of a turn out and derailed into a 35 car train and caused a derail of about 4 cars.
Pulled the Rivarossi, rerailed the other and still running great. Have found the passanger car that went the wrong way trucks boster was cleaned up a little off center and there 2 axel mounting points of sorts. My fault, one of the frist trucks I tuned. Have a pair of Atheran's I will install latter.
I know that most people will remember me making car Air Born and wanting to sell my stuff on E-bay, at this point I am past that and pretty darn pleased with how my junk is running.
Tip on using machine screw's is what I was looking for. Great idea I have not came across on my own yet. As good as adavcing your cam 2 degrees for better bottom end power. Or reducing your vavle lash a little if the track is hooking well for a better 60 foot time.
Thanks for all the help and I do listen and understand 85% of it now, by far better than a few months ago.
1 All cars I am running are with NMRA standerd's of weight.
2 All of the trucks I am running roll well.
3 If it derails, sat a side with notes of where it was in the train, where it derailed, what end was in the lead and where it happend on the bench work.
Cuda Ken, not derailing again.
1 All cars I am running are with NMRA standerd's of weight. 2 All of the trucks I am running roll well. If it derails, sat a side with notes of where it was in the train, where it derailed, what end was in the lead and where it happend on the bench work.
If it derails, sat a side with notes of where it was in the train, where it derailed, what end was in the lead and where it happend on the bench work.
NOW your getting smart.
Derailments are wheels not following the track. WHY?, is more complicated.
In the case of Rivarossi & IHC, it's weight, combined with p-poor trucks, talgo couplers; and encountering too-sharp curves. I have 27"radius. (NMRA recommends 36"- 46" for foot-long cars), so I have to pay close attention to Trucks. Best answer for yours is IHC metal trucks (Which were originally designed for Rivarossi cars). Don't want to spend $25? Too bad. The body is just extruded plastic. It's the trucks that do all the work.
IHC passenger trucks, adapters, KD #46's, and A-Line weights add about $35 to $8 cars, but now I can mix them in with $50-$60 walthers and BLI's, and they run.
Don Gibson wrote: IHC passenger trucks, adapters, KD #46's, and A-Line weights add about $35 to $8 cars, but now I ...
IHC passenger trucks, adapters, KD #46's, and A-Line weights add about $35 to $8 cars, but now I ...
(Gulp!) I have three MDC Harriman cars, one of which is a baggage care, and it will NOT stay on the tracks. I can't figure it out, but I am sensing that the answer is weight. In any event, I got a reasonable deal from Internet Hobbies earlier when they were flogging the Walthers heavyweight sleepers, and I am very impressed with the three cars that I could afford at the time. I wish I had more, but I will be patient. Still, the figure you quote above makes those heavyweights a very good investment, I'm thinking.
I may have to open a package of #46's next time I'm in the LHS and see, for myself, what the difference might be. I have so much to learn...
Don coming from you "NOW your getting smart" is saying someting. One thing I did miss said is not all the cars are in NMRA weight, that would be the Rivrossi cars. Till I installed the 24" turns I have gave up on them. Plus the FP-45's with theree chrome coated trucks did not help. (trucks hit the rear ladder in a 18" turn)
Just weight one 14" car and is around 1oz light. Maybe the problem and will figuer it out if it is not.
Not sure what "BLI's" means?
"Don't want to spend $25? Too bad." "The body is just extruded plastic. It's the trucks that do all the work."
"IHC passenger trucks, adapters, KD #46's, and A-Line weights add about $35 to $8 cars, but now I can mix them in with $50-$60 walthers and BLI's, and they run."
Not sure how to take that part, POS passangers cars have around 20 hours of run time being pulled with only one derail?
Here is my monto, "people that throw money at a problem waste there money. A Hot Rodder makes some thing that can't work, and work real fast"! Being a Rodder I really don't think I need to throw $25.00 at a $8.00 passanger car.
After I get this learing curve don't be shoocked when I am on the cover of MRR Magazine. Will take a while, I was the grasshooper before but became the master of the old Hobby.
If I can take this.
To this
It should be a cake walk.
Never Give Up, but sure came close like my first tune up, Rail head Ken learing again
selector wrote: Don Gibson wrote: IHC passenger trucks, adapters, KD #46's, and A-Line weights add about $35 to $8 cars, but now I ... (Gulp!) I have three MDC Harriman cars, one of which is a baggage care, and it will NOT stay on the tracks. I can't figure it out, but I am sensing that the answer is weight.
(Gulp!) I have three MDC Harriman cars, one of which is a baggage care, and it will NOT stay on the tracks. I can't figure it out, but I am sensing that the answer is weight.
I may have to open a package of #46's next time I'm in the LHS and see, for myself, what the difference might be. I have so much to learn.
Now,IF all else fails including weighing your cars there is a simple solution to your problem..Check your track work with a NMRA track gauge and repair as needed or try these trucks IF they are the correct type for your cars.
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page100.htm
To be brutally honest I suggest upgrading your freight car fleet.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"