18 x 9 layout HELP!!!!!!

[Angel_of_Mercy]

it seems everytime i get one thing in this hobby i lose another can some one please help me (again) i can't seem to get a proper 2 level layout going in this space, i'll take any advice i can get. I want to run modern (1980+) equipment. This is my first layout and i don't want to waste time and money on something i thought would work but was to flawed, so i'm coming to the experts any ideas on how i can build this layout with a min. radius of 24" and  #6 turnouts. The room is 18' x 9' please say u can help

[dxr8007nz]

Your layout  level 1 or 2 level top and bottom ?

[Angel_of_Mercy]

both really i can't figure out the best disign for this thing, i want a nice layout with some length on it's main line but i keep geting confused on how to make any of it work then adding a helix is a whole different bag of worms

[Don Gibson]

1. Get a pad with crosshair squares (Office supply). Draw ot your room to scale in ink including stairs, furnace, storage, all doorways, etc.

2. Draw your layout in Pencil. The 'ideal' layout is one where you can reach everything. Anything over 3' becomes a major stretch. Acceess, access, access.

a. A 4x8 will take up the whole room because you have to walk aroud it.

b. A 'U' shaped layout shove against 2 walls is better and can be only 6'' - 18" wide for Point to point - or 50" wide max.at the curved  loops (with access holes) to give you 24"r. (which can be on top of each other at one end to provides a minimum  grade (good). A folded 'Dogbone' of sorts, with a yard halfway between. Go from there.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

William.  Here are some other helpful links.

First:
http://www.nmra.org/. Half way down the page is a link to starting a layout and what all should be considered.  This will help answer a lot of the basic questions. The NMRA web site has a lot of good information.

Second:
http://ldsig.org/. This is the Layout Design Special interest group. Look at the primer link on the left of that page.  Again, a lot of good information on the design part.

Third:
Once you have an idea, track planning s/w will help you. There are a few for free such as Atlas RTS (Right Track Software) @ http://www.atlasrr.com/ and XtrkCad @ http://www.sillub.com/ (be sure to read about the free registration part)

Fourth:
4 by 8 layouts are common to start with.  Some who've done more than a few layouts may not agree with a 4 x 8, but it is a valid choice.  You can get some ideas on what can be done with a 4 x 8 other than just round and round running @ http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id28.html

Fifth:
Once you have a design in mind, post it here on the forum and the members will help you fine tune it and/or answer specific questions.

There are also a few basic publications, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, comes to mind that would be a great resource to have in one's hand.  I think 48 Top Notch Plans also has some guidelines about "doodling" ... sketching out on paper as Don has mentioned.

Good luck and remember this is for fun.

 

[wickman]

With 18'  wide room I would think an around the wall layout would be the way to go . Maybe a single ended loop with a 24 " radius can also be double ended loop I guess that would be called a dog bone.  With my layout I did a below bench staging yard with 18' I don't think you would have a problem descending. How many industries are you going to put on the layout? Are you looking for maybe one continuous run and a bit of operations? Maybe some scenery ? Inclines with bridges?

[Angel_of_Mercy]

basicly i want it to have a little of everything from intermodal to switching puzzles

[wickman]

Well I can tell you I'm in know way a layout planner and I'm not sure if there is such a thing I think its more along the line of if you draw them everyday you would be considered a layout planner. So saying that I can tell you I went trhough numerous layout plans and I ordered and now own numerous plan books from 101 track plans to JA planning to 48 top notch plans and I surfed and surfed I got book marks like you wouldn't believe and I came to the conclusion that track plans don't do a thing for me. I then decided to first start with the type of main line I wanted , then decided on type of industries and scenery including bridges and inclines. Once that was decided I then placed my structures with footprints in the plan to get a good operations setup. I then added appropriate sidings for the spurs and passing tracks and basicly now have the plan for the layout I'm building.

You may want to try this approach and it may work for you. Some food for thought.

[ranchero]

i dont know how muh this'll help but if you plan it carefully you might get by  by building the first level then as your experience and woodworking skiils improve, start on the second tier. Helix can be something frigthening for non -woodsman like myself so i steer clear of them ( that and the fact i wouldnt even know where to put it. also bear in mind that a helix is a major space eater. if you use JA square and you use a 24" minimum radii you're roughly looking at a 30 inches square , an helix is 4 square so about 60in by 60in just for the helix. now 24 is IMHO the minimum, if you want good looking model and good operation, 28 or 30in should be looked into

 

i have to disagree on the suggestion of a 4 by 8. if you intend on running modern equipment 24 inches curves are going to be your bare minimum radius. Modern diesel are LOOOONG and intermodal car can be especially finicky on small ( i.e: less than 24") curves. you might want to think of a simple U shape around your wall. at a reasonable grade of say 1in for every 48 in ( 2%) you should be able to clear almost 14" if you build it as a "nolix"

if youre not familiar with "nolix" layout, its a layout in which the mainline has a constant grade and use the entire lenght of the main line to act  as the helix. the idea would be to use the lower level as a shelf maybe 15 to 18 in. wide at about the level of your navel. and then the entire mainline end up being about 14-15in. higner when it gets to the same same point one lap later. this is perfect for a point to point layout. you have have staging at the beginning of the grade and more at the end.

 

just some ideas

[Angel_of_Mercy]

ok if i do that i will end up with a duck under and at 6' 2" that would lead to a lot of headaches and neck cramps and i can't handel that is there a way around that problem

[ranchero]

make it a removale bridge and it solves your duck under, also plan on starting your first level at about the hieght of your navel so that by the time it reaches to the 2nd level itll be chest level , making the duck under negligeable

[Don Gibson]

... before you design a layout think about your needs - OK, your WANTS. What's #1?

1. Continuous running vs. 'Operations oriented?

2. Passenger  emphasis or freight?

3. Era or era's.(Scenery)?

4. Simplicity vs skills X time.

You want it all? OK where is your emphasis going to be? 1, 2, 3, etc.

1.Continuous running requires a 'loop'. 2. 'Passenger' trains want wider curvers to look right. 3. Steam ran on thinner track, such as code 70. 5. 'Beginner? - or have you acquired skills?

Example: continuous running and passenger train requires much more  width (loops) than a p/p freight yard. (Consider N gauge?)

Now go do the right thing.

[Angel_of_Mercy]

make it a removale bridge and it solves your duck under, also plan on starting your first level at about the hieght of your navel so that by the time it reaches to the 2nd level itll be chest level , making the duck under negligeable

 

ok is there a thread where i can see a removable section or bridge so i can get an idea of one

[dxr8007nz]

Do you know duckunder are bad design because later you will get sore back too much go under and under again  but it is up to you if you want to put duckunder or other way   

 

[Angel_of_Mercy]

the last thing i ever want to see is a duckunder..... i may only be 21 but i already have bad back problems i just don't know how to make a removable section

[m sharp]

I designed a 9x21 foot railroad featuring a large industry, a medium sized yard for classification and some mainline running. To obtain all of this, I needed to make a double decked layout. In that space, I could not use the nolix method to get from one level to the next, because I wanted some "flat" areas for sidings, or the yard (the yard took all of one wall at 21 feet). Thus, I could not get enough separation between levels in one rotation. I did not like the idea of two rotations to get to the next level. That meant putting a large portion of the layout behind a backdrop.
That meant I needed a helix. I designed it with 24" radius and 26 1/2 inch radius curves. I tucked the helix in one corner, but to keep a decent aisle, the layout had to be no more than 18 inces wide across the aisle. That was not a problem.
I would recommend using larger radii where possible in visible area of the layout. They help make the train look more realistic.
I never finished building the layout since it is being rebuilt in a larger area now, so I cannot say with certainty that this concept would work for you. Draw it out and see, I think you can do it. Good luck.

Mike