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PK 2 E-6 Derailing on a great track?

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  • From: Maryville IL
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PK 2 E-6 Derailing on a great track?
Posted by cudaken on Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:59 PM

 OK, about two weeks ago I laided about 60 feet of new rail. I had to lay my happy caboose on the not to well made bench work. After that my E-6 number 12 would not make it around the track. Up to that point it ran like a champ. Would pull 36 cars for hours with no derails. Heck one day I ran it 5 hours none stop.

 After the new rails won't make it pass a turn out, OK, I did something wrong. My skills are not that good at this point. Well I worked on the rails but the E-6 still would not make the lay out. There must still be a bug I had not found.

 Tonight I got to run a great layout done by a PRO! I got to run my E-6 on K-10 trains 80 foot by 60 foot lay out!Big Smile [:D] This lay out is the best I have seen to date. I will added it is cool to take 6 minutes to go around one time.Big Smile [:D]

 Started with a light load of 40 cars and doubled headed the E-6 # 12 in front with another E-6 # 13 in the rear. There was not a turn out that # 12 would not derail at? Ken from K-10 trains looked it over and did not seee a problem. Checked the wheels and they are in gauge. Ran the engine with no load and did derail one time but that was on around 800 feet of track..

 Any ideas what to look at? My other E-6 # 13 when ran single headed pulled the freight with no problems on the same rails.

 After I got home the only thing I could think of is we did not turn the wheels when we checked the gauge. Have any one here bent a flange on a wheel? All so it is the front truck that comes off, or should I say want to take the closed turn out.

 Othere E-6 with a powered B E-6 was doint great and getting ready to add 40 cars till the other guys showed up. Someone opened a turn out that should not be open and you can figuer out the rest.

 I left the ill E-6 at K-10 trains to see if him or one of his friends can figuer it out. Ken from K-10 did pull out his older PK's E-6's and his truck are not as arched as mine. All of my E-6's has the same arch and all are say 4 months old max.

 

                      Cuda Ken, looking for help again

 

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Posted by cudaken on Friday, July 21, 2006 12:01 AM

I hate Rust

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Posted by Leon Silverman on Friday, July 21, 2006 7:03 AM

The last time I saw a bent flange was on my Varney freight car wheels.  These has sharp, knife edge flanges made of plastic that was very fragile.  this was back in the 50's.  I never encountered a bent flange on any wheel having the RP-25 profile

   If you made a mistake in your track laying, we would have to know what procedures you used.  For instance, nailing tracks down can distort the ties and throw the guage out of wack.  Also, certain roadbeds, such as cork or Homabed, should be sanded after they are laid down to ensure you have an smoothe, even surface.  Waving is good for friends and family, not three axlel engine trucks.

   As far as the engine itself, apply a small voltage to the engine on its' back and observe the wheels as they turn slowly.  If one or more of your wheels are eccentric, they will appear to shift position as they turn.  This could be the source of your derailments.

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Posted by cjcrescent on Friday, July 21, 2006 8:16 AM
Since the loco only has problems on the new track, and that appears to be the only thing that has changed, that is where the problem has got to be. Check all new joints, both by sight and by rubbing your finger across the joint, both on the top as well as the inside of the rail. Smoothe any rough joints with a small file. If the track is soldered at the joints, make sure there is no solder on the inside of the joint. Leon was right, any place where the track nails have "pushed" a tie down can and most times will affect track gauge.


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Posted by Dave-the-Train on Friday, July 21, 2006 2:21 PM

This is a guess but...

You say  "I had to lay my happy caboose on the not to well made bench work".  Do you mean that you sat or leaned on it?

One possibility is that you have put a vertical curve into your baseboard.  A straightedge oe a spirit level will show whether you have done this.  If you have you might be able to correct it by putting a jack under the board and applying a load in the opposite direction to the one that caused the problem.

If you try this go slowly and carefully.  You are likely to find that the best solution will be to jack back up to level... this might hold... more likely you will need to go a bit beyond true - leave it there for a day or so - and then let it back down.  there is a risk... the whole lot may fall apart (look at this as an opportunity to start again with a better board) or it might become like hot pasticine.

Okay... so what you might need to do is lift the damaged area using a spreader and once you have got the top level where you want it brace the frame with 2x1 on edge or even som suitable steel.

If you need to get the board back into true what you are doing is pretty much the same as straightening out an auto body.

Useful hint:- DON'T SIT ON IT!

Useful hint 2:- When people arrive, talking, joking, full of ideas - not paying attention - STOP ALL RUNNING! ... your trains at least.  (This should NOT be necessary...BUT...)

Similarly...when you go trackside railfanning it is really good practice to STOP, LOOK and LISTEN.  That moment when you arrive and something really great is about to happen, you grab your camera... That is really dangerous.  I know... I work with the things and I've lost count of the number of times I could have been killed.

Your best protection against accidents is to get into good/safe habits.

Have fun Tongue [:P]

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Posted by Dave-the-Train on Friday, July 21, 2006 2:31 PM

The other issue may be the loco... you are correct to note that while you gauged the wheels you only did so at one spot. 

It is quite possible for either an axle to get bent or a wheel (or wheels) to get knocked out of true on its axle... especially when a loc is dropped.  You may find that you can gently set a wheel back to true... this may be helped if you can then back it up with a small blob of glue... that doesn't break any insulation... but you will be best to replace the wheelset (axle and wheels) as soon as possible.

Tongue [:P]

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Friday, July 21, 2006 3:20 PM
I had a P2K PA1 that would keep jumping the track in a curve. The problem (when I finally found it) turned out to be a wheelset that had somehow become warped. The wheels would wobble just a tiny, yiny bit. When it reached a certain part of the track (northwest corner, hardest to get to) it would almost always jump the track. I changed out the suspect wheelset and it's never jumped the track again.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, July 21, 2006 4:09 PM

 cudaken wrote:
After that my E-6 number 12 would not make it around the track.
Must be painted for Santa Fe!

Would pull 36 cars for hours with no derails.
You realize of course that the E6 is a passenger locomotive :-)   The C&S burnt all the traction motors out of their E5s by assigning them to freight duty.

  There was not a turn out that # 12 would not derail at
Most bizzare.  Can you let it creep and watch it derail in slow motion?  This is how I found out on of my Stewart FT trucks was just plain to tightly attached.  It wouldn't rock and twist with the slightest change in the rail. 

Is it always the front or rear truck derailing?  Does it always derail to one side or the other?

Ken did pull out his older PK's E-6's and his truck are not as arched as mine. All of my E-6's has the same arch and all are say 4 months old max.
I don't understand "arched" the center axle sits higher than the two outside?  That is a common way toy trains companies make three axle trucks go around tighter radius curves. 

 

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Posted by kenkal on Friday, July 21, 2006 9:27 PM

Don't know if it's related to your problem, but I had a P2K E8/E9 that worked really great.  However, one day I was running it backwards and it started derailing at every curve and every turnout!  I ran it forward around the same curves and turnouts and no problem -- worked perfect.  Checked wheels in gauge and turning.  After about 15 frustrating minutes, I finally figured out that the bearings on the last axle of the rear truck were shifted to one side -- the whole axle was moved to the side a little bit so that the bearings were not in their slots.  This meant the wheels on that axle were locked into an offset, making the axle require a different radius than the other 2 axles in the truck frame.

I simply reset the axle so the bearings were in their left and right slot and the loco again worked perfectly forward and back.  Seems when it was going backwards, the offset axle was the lead and the offset made it jump the rails.  However, going forward it was just a trailing axle that followed along very well.

Seems I wasn't careful the week before when I cleaned and oiled the rtucks.  Must have been a little careless with those wonderful P2K bearings.

Ken

 

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Posted by cudaken on Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:33 PM

 Ken, you may be on to something, I had pulled the covers on the trucks and lubed them shortly be for the problem started.

  Freind that owns a web site once told me "Ken, no one reads the question, it is the internet they just answer".

 What you kind folks over looked is the problem was not just a on my POS board but K-10's board. A pro bulit monster that all most everone here would love to run on. Just give you a idea my line had 14 thottles all MRC 9500's. I be happy with one at this point.

 Hi Jeffery, I will be back to Rails USA soon.

 Open this link to see what I got to run.

http://http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/490cf3ca.jpg

http://http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/8eae5077.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/69a6105c.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/cudaken/Train0009.jpg

 

 I wish that was my board. Well, maybe not. Looks like a lot of up keep.

                              Cuda Ken

 

I hate Rust

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Posted by cudaken on Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:36 PM

 Hum, few links don't want to work?

 

                    Cuda Ken

I hate Rust

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