What glue do you use for styrene?

[electrolove]

I need some advice when it comes to glue.

What glue do you use for styrene such as plastruct and evergreen? I'm pretty sure there is a glue that is better then all other and that you guys use all the time with great results.

I also wonder how I can glue very small pieces together without making a big mess? I'm talking about pieces with the size of 2 mm or less. I have a picture in my head where I see the whole piece drowning in glue. Do you guys understand what I mean? I need to know how to add a VERY small amount of glue.

[csmith9474]

Faller "Expert"

[rrinker]

 Depends on if you want instant hold or some working time. For instant hold I use Tenax 7R. The really tiny microbrushes work well for distributing just a small amount without getting it all over. FOr even smaller applications, there's the touch and flow applicator like Micro-Mark sells.

                                     --Randy

[BizDoc]

For styrene I always use Testors liquid plastic cement (in the bottle not the black box like container) and apply it with a small paint brush.  This will give you the control you need.  Put the two pieces together and just touch the joint with the brush, it works very well.  I also use Microweld and Ambroid ProWeld using the same technique.

[orsonroy]

There are all sorts of adhesives out there that will work, but you have to know what you're dealing with. Everything that Evergreen sells IS styrene, but most of what Plastruct sells is NOT; it's PVC or ABS, and most glues don't work well on those types of "plastics".

For styrene to styrene bonds, I generally use one of three adhesives:

1) Ambroid Proweld liquid plastic cement: good bond, good working time.

2) Tenax 7R: weak bond, dries quickly (I use this when I'm gluing to a finished surface)

3) Testors liquid plastic cement: aggressive bond (melts a LOT, quickly), good working time (I use this when I want to glue sheets together, or interior bracing)

I've also begun to experiment with using straight MEX (methyl-ethyl ketone), which is what most liquid plastic cements are based on. It's dirt cheap by the pint (in the painting aisle), but it dries FAST, like Tenax.

[doctorwayne]

For styrene, I use lacquer thinner, the same stuff that I use to thin paints like Floquil, Scalecoat, and Accupaint.  I buy it by the gallon, then decant it into smaller containers, depending on its intended use.  For normal glueing, I keep some in an old Testors styrene cement bottle, the one with the integral brush in the lid.  For very small items, I use the lacquer thinner from this same Testors bottle, but substitute a smaller brush, 00, 000, 0000, whatever is most appropriate.  This stuff, however, does not work well on Plastruct ABS, the grey stuff used for some products.

Wayne

[tatans]

I used an acetone based product for gluing and noticed the horrendous fumes, upon checking on the internet I find that some of thesesmethyl-ethyl ketones and acetones are some of the most dangerous chemicals that are used, they should not be inhaled, and are also absorbed into the skin. Be very, very careful around these chemicals, I'm now using"plastic weld" which is not AS noxious-but the label warns the product contains a chemical that causes cancer. As with a lot of products small usage and fresh air and no problem.   Also there is a small squeeze bottle with a hair-like nozzle used for very tiny amounts of solvent, it's fun trying to put the even smaller stopper back in the nozzle, but it really works fine.

[Anonymous]

Faller "Expert"

Ditto

[jfugate]

electro:

Interesting you should bring this up because I am in the middle of filming the bridges chapter on my upcoming scenery and bridges DVD.

The bridge I'm building on the video is a curved trestle, built completely out of stryrene. I've been building bridges out of stryrene for years and have developed a lot of techniques for making it fast and easy.

One of the things I recommend is you get an A-West Needle point glue applicator. Here's a link:
http://www.ablehobby.com/awest_products.htm

I use regular MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) from the hardware store. You can get a 10 year supply (1 quart) for less than $10. See: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=32738F

You can also get it from Testors in the black bottle with a needle applicator, but they'll charge you $7 for a tiny supply. It's essentially MEK, with a few other additives that make it slower. Personally, I prefer straight MEK -- it sets up faster and you can find it pretty cheap in hardware stores.

Only fill the A-West bottle about 1/4 full, since the more MEK you put in the faster it comes out. With just 1/4 of the bottle full, you can go from joint to joint precisely placing a drop of MEK just about as fast as you can move, and it sets up in about 30 seconds or so.

On my video, I build a styrene trestle. I use a jig for building the trestle bents, and I use a Northwest Shortline Chopper II to cut the styrene pieces.

Using these tools, I can scratchbuild a styrene trestle quickly, it comes out looking very nice, and it's *strong* -- far stronger than a basswood trestle.

I also use similar techniques to kitbash steel truss bridges. The Central Valley bridge kit and the MicroEngineering tall steel trestle kits provide great truss pieces you can kitbash into realistic looking styrene truss bridges.

Kitbashed steel truss bridges take a lot longer to build because there's a lot of cutting and fitting involved, plus even building the raw trusses takes a while. Here some truss bridges on my Siskiyou Line:


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)

I estimate kitbashing really small steel truss bridges out of styrene would take several weeks to build, while larger bridges can go into months of spare time to build, paint, and install. If you want the bridge to look nice, building them can take some time!

[trainboyH16-44]

For styrene to styrene bonds, I generally use one of three adhesives:

1) Ambroid Proweld liquid plastic cement: good bond, good working time.[snip]

That's what I do as well, at least you can't glue your fingers together with it!

[bcawthon]

Testor's liquid or Faller Expert, depending on what I am doing. MEK sets up fast, but I am just as happy with the results I get with Testor's.

I don't use ACC because of its poor shear strength.

[electrolove]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help. Many good suggestions here.

[electrolove]

Joe:

I saw that there are many needles for the A-West Needle point glue applicator. They have different flows. What flow/size do you recommend?

The size of the needles are very small. Are there any problems with dry glue inside the needle?

MEK will melt the plastic together, right? Are there any situations when that is not good, or is this maybe not a problem at all?

[modelmaker51]

All the "adhesives" the poster's have mentioned here  are solvents. You don't actually "glue" styrene, you "weld" it.  The solvents melt a small layer of the plastic, as the solvent evaporates, the plastic resolidifies and you have a bond. 

The applicator tube shouldn't clog, the solvents just evaporate. If it should somehow get clogged anyway, just use a piece of wire to clear it.

I use Ambroid's ProWeld because it works well with several different types of plastics including styrene and Plastruct's ABS (Kato and the older Atlas/Kato bodies are also ABS). It works the same as Tenax, but you get twice as much for the same price.

 

[steamage]

I highly recommend Tenax-7R plastic welder with a small application brush. I use it on all my structures, even make my own windows.

<img>http://www.geocities.com/oldlahistory/shellerfeed-w.jpg</img>

[electrolove]

Does that mean that they all are just plain MEK in different packages?

For example, what's the difference between Tenax-7R and plain MEK?

[jfugate]

electro:

Get the smallest A-West needle you can get. MEK is a solvent that flows easily and evaporates quickly. The A-West bottles all come with a small wire to unclog the needle if it's ever needed.

Tenax7R and Tester's Styrene cement in the bottle (not the tube stuff) are all alcohol like solvents that flow easily and evaporate quickly. They all melt the styrene slightly to weld the joints together.

Tenax7R is less smelly than straight MEK and includes solvents that work with ABS plastic as well as styrene. Tenax7R is a little slower working than MEK, and it evaporates more quickly. If you accidentally leave the lid off the Tenax bottle (like I've done now and then), the stuff will be all but gone the next day -- so be careful!

I only use Tenax7R if I need to work with Plastistruct's ABS plastic -- and I only resort to this when I have to. Otherwise I prefer to work with styrene and cheap MEK from the hardware store.

The biggest difference between hardware store MEK and the other styrene solvents is the price. The small hobby styrene solvent bottles are expensive -- if you are working with stryene a lot (like me) you will spend way less if you go with the MEK from the hardware store and an A-West needle applicator.

Does that help?

[electrolove]

Joe,

Yes that helps a lot, thanks. Time to order things again :-)

[MisterBeasley]

For the easy jobs, I just use Testor's styrene cement.  If I'm working on a thin edge-to-edge connection, or I need a quick bond because I can't hold the pieces together for a long time, then I use CA.  CA also works well for joining dis-similar materials.  My CA comes in a bottle with a very thin pointed tip, so I can easily get very small amounts.  I also use CA "fixer" to instantly harden the glue.

[ericboone]

I'm not sure what A-West charges for their dispensing needles and tips, but at work, we order syringes and tips from McMaster Carr.  Go to www.mcmaster.com and type "dispensing needles" in the seach form.

I'll also concur with the idea of using acetone or MEK from the hardware store.  It is essentially the same thing as the model solvents.  Also, a cheap way to make a plastic cement from the exact material your working with is to take scrap material, such as the kit's sprue, cut it into small pieces and dissolve in acetone or MEK.

[modelmaker51]

For the easy jobs, I just use Testor's styrene cement.  If I'm working on a thin edge-to-edge connection, or I need a quick bond because I can't hold the pieces together for a long time, then I use CA.  CA also works well for joining dis-similar materials.  My CA comes in a bottle with a very thin pointed tip, so I can easily get very small amounts.  I also use CA "fixer" to instantly harden the glue.

CA is not a great bonder for plastics unless you have nearly perfectly mated surfaces. It is especialy bad for edge to edge joints as CAs have poor shear strength. The accelerators make the bond even weaker. CAs become brittle with time.

CAs are excellent for bonding dissimilar materials and resins. If you have to use a CA to bond plastics, use one that is specially formulated for plastics.

Also it is never a good idea to apply CAs directly from the bottle, sooner or later it's going to come out like Niagara Falls and ruin the model you're working on. Squeeze out a few drops onto a container (I use McDonald's little plastic condiment cups - I use these for mixing paints too), then use a straight pin or similar to dip and pickup a drop at a time and apply to the joint. For better control use a medium CA.

[Medina1128]

I've used all of the above, with pretty good results. The one thing I will NOT use anymore is that stuff in a tube (remember those 'spider webs'??)

[Anonymous]

PSA: Safety First

For those of you considering using MEK, please google on “ MSDS MEK ”. Despite it’s common availability, this compound is not for the kids (nor am I suggesting the alternatives are 100 % safe either of course).

Dave M

[chutton01]

I'm now using"plastic weld" which is not AS noxious.

Speaking of Plastruct Plastic Weld (which does indeed have the oddly worded warning that it contains a chemical know to the state of California to cause cancer - apparently other states disagree, but I keep the bottle closed when not needed, avoid skin contact, and try not to inhale the fumes just the same), I have used it to join styrene strip to resin (namely the resin used by Walthers in their garage detail parts) - it forms a strong bond (you need a lot of it though - use rubber gloves when apply), which I can carve and file with no problem, and apparently causes no disintegration of the resin (albiet I have only observed the parts for a couple of months).  Not sure if resin-resin works yet...

[dxr8007nz]

electro:

Interesting you should bring this up because I am in the middle of filming the bridges chapter on my upcoming scenery and bridges DVD.

The bridge I'm building on the video is a curved trestle, built completely out of stryrene. I've been building bridges out of stryrene for years and have developed a lot of techniques for making it fast and easy.

One of the things I recommend is you get an A-West Needle point glue applicator. Here's a link:
http://www.ablehobby.com/awest_products.htm

I use regular MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) from the hardware store. You can get a 10 year supply (1 quart) for less than $10. See: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=32738F

You can also get it from Testors in the black bottle with a needle applicator, but they'll charge you $7 for a tiny supply. It's essentially MEK, with a few other additives that make it slower. Personally, I prefer straight MEK -- it sets up faster and you can find it pretty cheap in hardware stores.

Only fill the A-West bottle about 1/4 full, since the more MEK you put in the faster it comes out. With just 1/4 of the bottle full, you can go from joint to joint precisely placing a drop of MEK just about as fast as you can move, and it sets up in about 30 seconds or so.

On my video, I build a styrene trestle. I use a jig for building the trestle bents, and I use a Northwest Shortline Chopper II to cut the styrene pieces.

Using these tools, I can scratchbuild a styrene trestle quickly, it comes out looking very nice, and it's *strong* -- far stronger than a basswood trestle.

I also use similar techniques to kitbash steel truss bridges. The Central Valley bridge kit and the MicroEngineering tall steel trestle kits provide great truss pieces you can kitbash into realistic looking styrene truss bridges.

Kitbashed steel truss bridges take a lot longer to build because there's a lot of cutting and fitting involved, plus even building the raw trusses takes a while. Here some truss bridges on my Siskiyou Line:


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)

I estimate kitbashing really small steel truss bridges out of styrene would take several weeks to build, while larger bridges can go into months of spare time to build, paint, and install. If you want the bridge to look nice, building them can take some time!

Do you made these bridge or you buy from mirco engineering bridge ?

[n2mopac]

Personally I have used Ambroid Pro Weld and Tenax 7R. Both work ok, but I much prefer the working time and bond I get with Ambroid Pro Weld. CA works best for adhering unlike materials where at least one is porous. It is not the best choick for mating 2 plastic surfaces.

Ron

 

[jfugate]

Do you made these bridge or you buy from mirco engineering bridge ?

I kitbashed the bridges from MicroEngineering and Central Valley bridge kits. I used real railroad bridges as my guide. I sketched up an actual sized plan for each bridge and used the plan as a guide to cut-and-fit pieces from the above bridge kits to get the final bridge.

MicroEngineering and Central Valley bridge kits provide great "raw material" for just about any bridge you care to build. You can make all kinds of steel structural members with the parts from these bridges and you can just mix and match the pieces to get a very authentic looking bridge.

It helps to use a prototype bridge as a guide. For example, here's the prototype bridge from the North Umpqua area on the real Siskiyou Line:


(click to enlarge)

And here's my model of it:


(click to enlarge)

The end result is a pretty convincing model bridge, and it wasn't that hard to do ... just tediuous since there's lots of little parts to cut and fit -- especially for two bridges like there are here!

[gmcrail]

I use straight MEK (Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone) in a Testors Liquid bottle (the square glass one). The fumes are very minimal, unless you do it in a closet with the door shut, or unless you pour it out of the bottle...   And it's a bunch cheaper.  If I'm gluing acrylic, I use Tenax 7R, and Plastruct's Plastic Weld for their ABS.  But mostly, it's MEK.

You can use a needle, or one of the Microbrushes to apply a small amount of glue, or, if you're using straight MEK, a very fine paintbrush.  You do have to be pretty quick, though, because the glue can evaporate between the bottle and the work, which can be very annoying...

[Steelman65]

I'm by no means qualfied to answer this question, but what I've been using to get a small amount of glue where I want it is by using a syringe and needle I bought from the local drug store. I am using Tenax 7R glue. Hope this at least gives you and idea to try.