HO couplers

[Anonymous]

I have a mix of rolling stock that I am now going to go through and use all the life like, tyco etc.. to practice weathering. On the better cars, I would like to convert the horn&hook couplers to more prototypical ones.
What would you gentlemen recomend as the best route to go here?
I have seen discussions about Kadee, and others but there seems to be a # of types available..
Ease of operation, proper fit, ease of instalation etc...
Thanks,
David

[GAPPLEG]

IMHO , kadees are the only way to go. Their website has charts for converting just about anything and what style of kadee to use. I wouldn't use anything else. [2c]

[MisterBeasley]

I agree. Most of my rolling stock is 40+ years old. I'm slowly converting to Kadees. For newer equipment, there is a drop-in replacement which will fit the coupler pocket, usually (but not always) a Kadee #5. On many of mine, I've had to remove the old coupler pocket and replace it with the Kadee "draft gear boxes" to get them to fit correctly.

For my old Tyco's, this means cutting the coupler bracket off of the truck, drilling and tapping a hole in each end of the car body, and mounting the draft gear and couplers to the body of the car. They work much better this way, incidentally. It may sound like a big production, but now that I've done a few, I can upgrade pretty much any car in 10 or 15 minutes. The tricky jobs are the old locomotives, which often require more significant surgery to remove the old boxes, and special couplers to get the right shank length and height.

[Anonymous]

I assume that is what the guage is for? But are all Kadee`s interchangable (do they all work together) if set properly?

[Darth Santa Fe]

I believe Kadee makes a coupler specifically for talgo coupler mounts. You may be able to find some at Walthers. This would save a lot of shimming, cutting and gluing.[:D]

[Anonymous]

A couple years ago I was upgrading some of my old trainset style equipment and I found #28s with the special adapters worked pretty good. They have this ABS piece that looks like a letter I and it closes up the coupler box I think they also sell the pieces separately.

[Anonymous]

ok, just went to Kadee`s site. I see I have hours of research ahead of me! This is not going to be as simple as I hoped! But what is?
Thanks for the answers guys!

[MisterBeasley]

Yes, all Kadees should work with each other. However, they have recently introduced a smaller knuckle, which may be the #83, but don't quote me. These are closer to prototype in size. I heard that they will still work interchangeably with the larger ones, but I haven't seen that work for a fact. Kadees will also work with all the also-rans, at least until the other ones fall apart. The others won't uncouple on the magnets as well as Kadees, either.

I did buy a set of the Kadee Talgo / Tyco truck-mount adapters to try out. Unfortunately, they are not an exact match for my old, old trains. Also, you would just end up with a truck-mounted Kadee, better, but not what I really wanted.

One other thing - Kadee couplers are mostly metal. (They do make some plastic ones for special applications.) This means that they will conduct electricity, which is a problem if you have old locos with frame electrical grounds and old plastic horn-hooks. If you just drop in Kadee #5's, you may end end up with two engines that have oppositely-polarized frames, and you will get a short if you couple them together. For this reason, I always install the plastic draft gear boxes on metal-frame engines. Besides providing a perfect coupler pocket, the draft gear boxes also insulate the coupler shank from the engine frame.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Here is a link to Kadee's web site.
http://www.kadee.com/index.shtml
And yes, all Kadee couplers will work together if set properly.

[Bill54]

I just changed 6 Life Like cars to Kadee couplers. I used the #5 coupler and the draft gear box. I cut off the existing horn hook coupler from the truck and installed the new coupler on the body / chassis of the car. In a couple of cases I had to use some Kadee shims under the boxes to get the right height. And on a couple of cars I had to shim the truck to raise the coupler. Kadee does sell offset shanks to do the same job but shimming the draft gear box or the trucks accomplishes the same objective.

You may want to change over to metal wheels at the same time. I used the Kadee #520 Wheels that are the smooth 33" freight. They come 12 per pack, enough to do three cars. To get them to roll like they are on roller bearings I used the Micro Mark truck turner on each truck point. They roll as good as, or better than, the more expensive rolling stock I have.

Bill

[Don Gibson]

ALL KD couplers in the same gauge - such as HO - mate together IF they are the same height (#205). Not all manufacturers use the the same mounting design, so the main fifference in KD's is their different mounts. Their 'default' coupler is the # 5.

SINCE you have a variety of cars, MAY I suggest a KD # 13 / #205 combination for starters? And the KD # 1030 is even better, as it includes tools. Go from there.

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page54.htm
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page394.htm

[VAPEURCHAPELON]

I agree that Kadees work good, it's the only brand of couplers I use today, but keep in mind that all magnetic activated couplers look very ugly because of the large hook directing to the ground which is necessary for operation. Furthermore the size of the head is MUCH too large - also the so called scale couplers - because they shall correspond with other brands. Looking for an alternative, few months ago I found the website from Sergent Couplers:

http://user.icx.net/~sergent/index.htm

This is the only manufacturer of SCALE SIZED AND OPERATIONAL couplers. I plan to equip my Powhatan Arrow with these and if it works as intended to trash all my Kadees.

Take care.

[fwright]

Couplers - one of my favorite topics....

Knuckle couplers, although developed much earlier, didn't really come into wide-spread use on the prototype until the late 1890s. Some railroads even held off until about 1902 or 1903. The prototype knuckle coupler of the day had a much smaller knuckle than the couplers of today (9" height vs 13"). And some narrow gauge roads used a 3/4 size of the 9" knuckle. So a scale-size coupler depends on when and what you are modeling.

The Sergent coupler is a great scale size model of the modern 13" knuckle coupler. The Kadee #53(?), #711, and other "scale size" knuckle couplers also have approximately 13" scale height knuckles, although the knuckle faces are shaped differently to provide other operational features. And as others have mentioned, the Sergent doesn't have that magnetic trip wire hanging down.

Sergent couplers use a magnetic "wand" to open the knuckle - the knuckle does not open automatically. A coupler centering spring is not provided nor necessary because to couple 1) you have to ensure both couplers are aligned, and 2) at least one knuckle is open. This is just like the prototype, except you wave a wand near the knuckle instead of pulling a lever to open the knuckle.

I ended up deciding against Sergent couplers because of the manual reach-in factor for all uncoupling and some coupling operations. My other reason is that for my chosen era (1900), the Sergent couplers are not to scale either.

I prefer Kadees because if I use their N scale cousin Micro-Trains couplers with longer trip wires, I can get pretty close to scale size for my era. Or use the Kadee 711s/714s, which are about 33% over-size for my era but already have the correct length trip wires for HO/HOn3. Secondly, I get automatic coupling (on straight track and broad curves) without having to open a knucke, and with electro-magnet or moveable under -the-tie magnets, pretty reliable uncoupling combined with decent looking track. Third, I don't like the reaching in if I can help it because my 0-5-0 isn't as stable as it once was, has a habit of accidentally derailing cars and knocking details off structures and scenery, and has a visual steering mechanism which occasionally loses its calibration. I really, really dislike modeling the aftermath of earthquakes!

My thoughts, your choices
Fred W
in foggy coastal Oregon where it's always 1900

[RyanLaP]

I would mostly reccomend Mchenry and Kadee couplers. I had good luck with the Mchenry couplers. I put the couplers on my intermodal cars and they work like a charm. The Kadee couplers I hared are magnetic so I think those are also good couplers for you.

[DrummingTrainfan]

Anything with a metal spring (McHenry and KD are the two biggest manufacturers; Although, beware that McHenry also makes plastic sprung couplers which are utter junk) will be your best bet.

[gderem]

QUOTE: Originally posted by stripes2

ok, just went to Kadee`s site. I see I have hours of research ahead of me! This is not going to be as simple as I hoped! But what is?
Thanks for the answers guys!

Actually, it's not that bad. 90% of conversions will use the #5. or check out the newer whisper coupler #148 -- same size as #5. I think they are a bit easier to use.

I also found these very useful
#205 Coupler Height and Multi-Purpose Gauge to test with.
#240 "Pin Vise" double headed with double ended collets
#246 2-56 Tap and Drill Set

Have fun with it![:D]

[Anonymous]

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but KADEE is the best. I'm in HO and have converted all types of rolling stock to KADEE with no problems. To ease your operation, I found it best to work on clusters of the same manufacturers rolling stock. This way once I figured out the exact height with the KADEE height gauge the rest of the cars usually required about the same amount of shims, etc to be an exact match. Have plenty of kadee red and gray washers on hand, along with coupler boxes, drill bits, 2-56 screws and nuts for you conversions. I'll leave you with this tidbit, for older Athearn BB kits, a KADEE number 47 has been the answer for me. And a change to metal wheels while doing the coupler transformation is an excellent idea as you can then set the car up for good and only have to go back periodically for maintenance. GOOD LUCK.

[ericboone]

If your starting from scratch, start with Kadee #58 as opposed to the "standard" #5. The #58 is closer to scale.

[RicHamilton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

Yes, all Kadees should work with each other. However, they have recently introduced a smaller knuckle, which may be the #83, but don't quote me. These are closer to prototype in size. I heard that they will still work interchangeably with the larger ones, but I haven't seen that work for a fact.

I believe you are referring to a #58. They have a smaller knuckle and do operate reliably ith #5s. Because of their smaller size, a more aggresive approach to coupler height and smooth tracklaying is a definate asset. Then again, those two items should be regardless of the size of the coupler

[fsm1000]

I have always used kadees ever since I had my first one on a RTR and never looked back.
Just my opinion.

[PennsyHoosier]

You can't go wrong with Kadee #5, though I am moving to #58 for all of my new installations.

[RicHamilton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

You can't go wrong with Kadee #5, though I am moving to #58 for all of my new installations.

I, like VAPEURCHAPELON, have discovered the Sergent couplers. I have about 10 cars and two locos equipped and a friend and I tested them on a modular layout and were impressed. Impressed enough that I will not buy anymore KD, McHenry etc. They cost about twice as much as a KD but IMHO, they are da bomb. And in 15 years I think that we will see KDs and clones becoming what the 'hornhook' is today. Now for me this is not a big thing as my cars and locos are packed away as I do ot have a layout and this can be phased in. Those with layouts would find changing much more difficult.

[Tooooons]

Kadee #58s all the way, EXCEPT:

They work decently with #5s, but you will run into some trouble in some instances (like layouts with small radii). Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Kadee will introduce all of their shank options for the #58 size. So, a great many certain locos that require longer shanks can still only be #5s. It would be nice to get an extended shank #58 so I can put it on my Athearn sd40-2s with their snowplows. Just can't do it with standard #58s. It's too short... and too bad!

But those little scale size 58s are cool (they look right), and do force you to achieve near-perfect tracklaying. A great challenge.

[WSOR 3801]

No. 5 is more reliable in tight radius coupling. I do have some #58, but for the 18" radius at home, #5 is the way to go. #58 are a little fussier,but look nicer; #5 works in most situations without aligning drawbars (more user-friendly), but is slightly oversize.

For the Athearn SD40-2 with plow (RTR), take the factory plastic POS plow off. The mounts are in the right place for a Details West #155 plow. Paint to match, enlarge the holes slightly, add the plow. A #5 or #58 with the trip pin cut off will work very nicely. Less deflection with 100 cars on it.

[Anonymous]

I believe that the best couplers are kadees for functionality as well as fairly prototypically correct. However I have some cars which have kadees on one end and a mate-matic on the other. This way I can couple to cars that don't have kadees. Mate-matics work fairly well except when you want to uncouple them. Most of the time it seems that you have to pick one of the cars up and twist it to get it loose from the mate-matic.
William
Birmingham, AL