Old Model RR mags - Worth saving intact?

[Anonymous]

I've bought a lot of old mags, mostly '70s on, but with a few back to '47 mixed in. Generally I just cut out the articles I like and throw out the husks, but I'm hesitant when doing it to a mag 60 years old. Given that these things go begging on Ebay at 50 cents per, is there really any value in keeping these old ones whole?

Kurt Laughlin

[Anonymous]

unless you're pressed for space, put them in a box. What have you got to loose?

[TomDiehl]

Well, I have a collection of Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman going back to the mid 60's. I don't keep them for the collector value, I don't think they have any, I keep them as a personal reference library.

[icmr]

I have the 15th(jan 1949) anniversary issue of MR and the complete 1954 and 1956 years, all intact. I would keep them intact but thats just me since I am a collector.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[icmr]

And they are a good reference.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpitFireV12RR

unless you're pressed for space, put them in a box. What have you got to lose?

Space.

I recently moved and brought with me something like 100 cu ft of books and mags, and I'm talking solid paper, not just box sizes. A great deal of it I haven't looked at in ages. It's just too much stuff.

KL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

Well, I have a collection of Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman going back to the mid 60's. I don't keep them for the collector value, I don't think they have any, I keep them as a personal reference library.

Well, I do get what I want out of them, but frankly there's a lot of stuff that is not really useful because it's been overtaken by events, like ads, reviews of brass locos that haven't been imported for 20 years (or are currently in production as state of the art styrene), articles on scratchbuilding steel boxcars out of wood, and things like that. Also, I just don't find layout tours or model photos that interesting. In my experience, there are 8 to 16 pages of useful info in a given issue, and that's what I keep.

I guess I'm wondering why something that appears to be valuable to so many people can barely be given away.

KL

[PennsyHoosier]

You need to have a system of keeping track of the important article, otherwise you likely look at them once and then never again.

That being said, I keep my old ones.[:I]

[Bob grech]

The answer for me is a definite YES!

My library dates back to 1974 with additional volumes 1965-1967 I purchased at a train show. As for reference material, my wife finds it hard to believe that I can recall certain projects or layouts from memory!

I used binders to keep them in. These are stored in a bookshelf under my benchwork. The binders not only help keep each year in order, they have kept 30+ year magazines in mint condition.

[CNJ831]

Two points those who advocate cutting out articles and throwing the rest of the magazine away should consider:

1. Especially in the case of newbies and semi-newbies (anyone with less than 8-10 years in the hobby), you are clipping what interests you right now. You have no idea what info may come in handy next year or five years from now. Generally, it turns out to have been in the portion of the magazine you discarded.

2. If you amass any significant collection of clipped articles, how are you going to reference what you've saved? If someone here, or in a current issue of MR, refers readers to the article on page 58 of the July 1978 issue, how will you go about finding it (if you happened even to keep it)?

In the long run, it's a foolish choice to clip interests-of-the-moment articles out of MR and tra***he rest of the copy.

Incidentally, my MR reference library spans from January 1940 to the present and I wouldn't part with a single page.

CNJ831

[ragnar]

Trouble with magazines is there are a number of really really good ones out there ,but by the time you've collected 15 or 20 years of your favorites your in dire need of a warehouse to store themin , cuz if your like me ya just can't bear to part with them.

[Anonymous]

I don't know whether they are worth saving, intact or otherwise, but I have both MR and RMC intact from 1959 with several years of MR predating that. At Seattle in 2004 I bought MR's last "small" format edition - I can't lay my hands on them at this particular moment, but I believe it was 1947. Anyway, I break into unrestrained sobbing whenever I even think of getting rid of them.

However I will own that it is getting just a little ridiculous to be hanging around with 320 inches of magazines - and that's just MRs. In the immediate future there is going to be some heavy editing done with scissors, looseleaf binders, and document protectors.

I just got over another session of unrestrained sobbing but I feel much better now.

[Anonymous]

Keep 'em What have you got to lose

[Anonymous]

Keep 'em What have you got to lose

[Anonymous]

Keep 'em What have you got to lose

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Two points those who advocate cutting out articles and throwing the rest of the magazine away should consider:

1. Especially in the case of newbies and semi-newbies (anyone with less than 8-10 years in the hobby), you are clipping what interests you right now. You have no idea what info may come in handy next year or five years from now. Generally, it turns out to have been in the portion of the magazine you discarded.

This is a very good point, and one I can't completely explain away knowing my own history of interests and the normal changes over time. However, given that I can get a 1947 mag for less than a dollar in 2006 (indicating a relative surplus) why shouldn't I expect that there will be a similar surplus of 1997 mags in 2056, such that I could just get them off Ebay as needed? (Or more likely, buy a digitized set of the entire magazine run from Kalmbach. . .)

The other thing I've noticed in my other modeling hobbies is that even factual information becomes dated. Drawings that were made in 1962 or whenever are found to be in error or weak on small details as research uncovers more data, new pictures show different colors for the standard schemes, structures are seen to be freelanced rather than prototypical, and so on. Wouldn't that make the old info less valuable? (I've seen this in armor modeling. The "conventional wisdom" about both German and American WW II tanks has been set on its ear in just the last five years or so. One reason I haven't looked at some of the stuff I've got is that I know it's wrong.) And look at all the electrical stuff. Is a three part article on using 120VAC relays (or whatever) really relevant in an age where locos have on-board microprocessors? Some of the early IC parts aren't even made anymore. And who wants to try figuring out a 500 line BASIC subroutine written for an 8086 computer when there are DCC units doing the same thing off the shelf?

I guess at age 44 I've come to realize that my potential interests are not infinite, and really can't be. (For example, while I might want to do a larger layout or one 20 years on either side of what I'm doing now, I just can't see myself wanting to go from modeling the PRR in 1961 to modeling a narrow gauge Colorado logging road in 1885.) If I take the position that "all knowledge must be saved on the oft chance I might need it" then there will be no end to it and I'll drown under the paper.

QUOTE:
2. If you amass any significant collection of clipped articles, how are you going to reference what you've saved? If someone here, or in a current issue of MR, refers readers to the article on page 58 of the July 1978 issue, how will you go about finding it (if you happened even to keep it)?

This I am more willing and able (I think) to deal with. I strongly suspect as well that referencing back issues will be less far reaching as time goes on, due to the "shelf-life" of info described above. When was the last time somebody referenced a 1961 article in MR, other than to say something like "The Gorre and Daphetid was first featured in the June '52 MR. . ."?

QUOTE:
Incidentally, my MR reference library spans from January 1940 to the present and I wouldn't part with a single page.

How much shelf space or cubic feet does it take up? And when was the last time you pulled something useful from the May 1946 issue?

I guess I was thinking along the lines of some archival philosophy when I first posted. Most of the responses to date have been along the "You never know when you might need it !" track, which ain't that compelling to me, but I'm still listening [:)]

Thanks,
KL

[Anonymous]

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

You mayb be in breach of copyright in doing this you know

[tomikawaTT]

My collection of Model Railroader magazines (whole, uncut) goes back to 1948. Organized to stand vertically in boxes (except for the '48-'58 span, which are either in binders or bound volumes), they now occupy about 15 linear feet of bookshelves in my office. Add in RMC, Tetsudo Mokei Shumi (Japanese-language), a random assortment of railfan and technical volumes - I'm just about to outgrow 48 feet of shelving.

Over the years, I've discovered that things which were of no possible interest when I first read the magazine later provided the essential link in some problem-solving chain. If I had only kept the articles of interest, those links would have been lost.

On top of that, most of those "interesting" articles aren't any more. My skills, experience and (especially) choice of prototype have rendered them obsolete.

By all means, keep entire magazines if you can, but keep your collection organized.

Chuck

[IRONROOSTER]

Personally, I keep them intact. My collection goes back to 1950 for all but 6 issues and about a dozen more before that. With the online index on this site, it is very easy to look up items of interest.

QUOTE: from aardvark
The other thing I've noticed in my other modeling hobbies is that even factual information becomes dated. Drawings that were made in 1962 or whenever are found to be in error or weak on small details as research uncovers more data, new pictures show different colors for the standard schemes, structures are seen to be freelanced rather than prototypical, and so on. Wouldn't that make the old info less valuable?

While there is truth in what you say, drawings are rarely (never?) repeated and the old ones are pretty good. Plus for big buildings, they are frequently modified to be smaller which might be of use if you don't have a lot of room. Pictures never become obsolete for detail. I also have gone back to old issues to read reviews of products still on the market. And there are some gems among the old track plans.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the end of course, we each must decide what is worth the space and time to save. But if you do decide to cut out articles please throw away the rest of the magazine. I really hate to buy an old magazine and later find articles cut out of it.

Enjoy
Paul

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark
The other thing I've noticed in my other modeling hobbies is that even factual information becomes dated. Drawings that were made in 1962 or whenever are found to be in error or weak on small details as research uncovers more data, new pictures show different colors for the standard schemes, structures are seen to be freelanced rather than prototypical, and so on. Wouldn't that make the old info less valuable?

I am always very cautious about relying on supposedly superceding info nowadays. We are getting quite far removed from the steam era and although someone may turn up a piece of paper saying (supposedly documenting) such-and-such about a given structure, loco, whatever, in my opinion it is just as likely to be incorrect as is the older, already known info. Firsthand information from a contemporary observer always carries more weight for me than some yellowed piece of office paper that said one thing but whose order was carried out in the field in quite a different way.

QUOTE:
I strongly suspect...that referencing back issues will be less far reaching as time goes on, due to the "shelf-life" of info described above. When was the last time somebody referenced a 1961 article in MR, other than to say something like "The Gorre and Daphetid was first featured in the June '52 MR. . ."?

Actually, I see it fairly often in the magazine. The July 2006 MR just referred readers to an article appearing in the December 1974 issue, without which the current piece (Perkins) becomes a pointless item of look-what-I-did...but not a how-to-do-it article. There are plenty of times when the author, or perhaps the editors, refer the reader back to some past article, where the subject at hand was typically covered in far more detail than it is in the current issue.

QUOTE:
How much shelf space or cubic feet does it take up? And when was the last time you pulled something useful from the May 1946 issue?

Perhaps not from the 1940's but, as a longtime hobbyist, I often find myself referring to MR articles and material from the 1950's to the 1980's to assist me in various layout projects. In fact, many of my more recently scratchbuilt structures are based on articles from that earlier time frame. The longer you are in the hobby, the more you discover how valuable the older MRs are. And as to will they ever come out as a single DVD? I doubt that will happen in the near future, especially with Kalmbach offering vintage articles as PDF files at a price. More likely all their articles will become available in that sort of format than as a one-shot DVD.

CNJ831

[tatans]

Save them, along with every other thing that should have been tossed years ago, then when the kids try and settle your estate they have to wade through piles and aisles of old books and newspapers and the deposits of your 25 cats, then they have to go and sort out the 2400 boxcar kits you collected over the last 40 years and have to get rid of the 400 brass locomotives you hoarded and which the kids will sell for $5.00 each. Sure , keep those old mags.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

You mayb be in breach of copyright in doing this you know

You're right, and I imagine it's about as illegal as taping an episode of the Cosby show to watch on Saturday instead of Thursday.

I'm not distributing this stuff, and wouldn't share if someone asked for it.

This is the modern age, and this is how information is stored these days.

Have you ever made a "best of" audio tape to play in your car on long trips? How about a CD?

This is about as illegal as that. I paid for this information, and now I'm storing it differently for myself.

Sometimes in my own life, I have to put common sense above technicalities of the law. I know that sharing the information would be wrong, and I'm not doing that, and won't, because I know it's wrong. It's extremely simple to me.

EDIT: Might I add, it's my understanding that singing "Happy Birthday" at a birthday party is illegal, because it's a "public performance" of someone else's copyrighted song - which is why restaurants make up their own songs, and you're thinking, "why don't they just sing the regular song?". Remember that next time you sing Happy Birthday!

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Save them, along with every other thing that should have been tossed years ago, then when the kids try and settle your estate they have to wade through piles and aisles of old books and newspapers and the deposits of your 25 cats, then they have to go and sort out the 2400 boxcar kits you collected over the last 40 years and have to get rid of the 400 brass locomotives you hoarded and which the kids will sell for $5.00 each. Sure , keep those old mags.

And it's just what the little brats deserve to be stuck wading through endlessly! As to selling off my brass collection at $5 a head, I couldn't care less when I'm dead. Besides, it's their inheritance that they'll be p**sing away then, won't it?! [;)]

CNJ831

[SilverSpike]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A couple years ago I realized I had about 5 or 6 years of model railroad magazines, and about 15 years of drumming magazines.

I was fed up.

So, enter the modern age: I took a razor blade and cut out all the articles I "couldn't live without". This was my favorite layouts, or favorite articles. (In the case of my drum magazine, basically favorite drummer interviews).

Then I scanned these into the computer and organized them into a few directories. I name the file by magazine, then date - for example, MR 1988-11, Cat Mountain & Santa Fe would be Model Railroader, November 1988 with David Barrow's layout (I made up the date, so don't quote me on that one).

Scanning or some sort of photocopying is the only way to guarantee one article won't end on the same page that another one starts on, and get filed in the wrong place.

My drum magazine came out with a digital archive on DVD for $200, so I always knew if I ever felt like jumping off a cliff because I got rid of my old magazines that I could buy the archive.

How many times have I regretted tossing the old magazines? ZERO, but I have less "stuff" to keep track of.

If you follow the philosophy of "holding onto something because I might need it one day", you will quickly need a warehouse to house all of your stuff. Career stuff, fun stuff, childhood stuff, your own kids' stuff, etc. - it's endless.

Now I have a cool digital archive of all my favorite stuff - and I have to thumb through ZERO adds to read it. Nice, huh?

You mayb be in breach of copyright in doing this you know

You're right, and I imagine it's about as illegal as taping an episode of the Cosby show to watch on Saturday instead of Thursday.

I'm not distributing this stuff, and wouldn't share if someone asked for it.

This is the modern age, and this is how information is stored these days.

Have you ever made a "best of" audio tape to play in your car on long trips? How about a CD?

This is about as illegal as that. I paid for this information, and now I'm storing it differently for myself.

Sometimes in my own life, I have to put common sense above technicalities of the law. I know that sharing the information would be wrong, and I'm not doing that, and won't, because I know it's wrong. It's extremely simple to me.

EDIT: Might I add, it's my understanding that singing "Happy Birthday" at a birthday party is illegal, because it's a "public performance" of someone else's copyrighted song - which is why restaurants make up their own songs, and you're thinking, "why don't they just sing the regular song?". Remember that next time you sing Happy Birthday!

[#ditto] What you said! CARRFan

As long as it is for personal use only there is really no reason to worry about legal issues. It is when the material is copied for further distribution that it becomes an issue.

[Anonymous]

Saving old model magazines is a matter of personal preference, I clip what I feel works for me, too many adds and articles on other scales and the like. I keep them in smaller binders. References to freightcars, scenery, detailing etc. I don't need the other stuff, but that's just me. Mike

[ereimer]

it depends , is your hobby really collecting magazines or are they a reference source ?
i recently thinned out my collection a bit and reduced a 4 foot wide shelf of old mags to 3 inches of cut out articles . i should confess that they were all RMC's not MR's , now i have room on the shelves for MR from 2000 - 2008 [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aardvark

I've bought a lot of old mags, mostly '70s on, but with a few back to '47 mixed in. Generally I just cut out the articles I like and throw out the husks, but I'm hesitant when doing it to a mag 60 years old. Given that these things go begging on Ebay at 50 cents per, is there really any value in keeping these old ones whole?

Kurt Laughlin

Everyone tends to file things in his own way, but I choose to remove pages with good articles that can be used for references and toss the older magazines to save on space. Our hobby has changed so much in the last ten years, many of the older articles are not totally relevant to our latest technolgy.

Articles on weathering and basic model building can usually be used and drawings of prototype equipment is always good to have for your reference. Some of the tips and articles do stand the test of time for sure.

If you space, keep them for your future reference.

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

1. Especially in the case of newbies and semi-newbies (anyone with less than 8-10 years in the hobby), you are clipping what interests you right now. You have no idea what info may come in handy next year or five years from now. Generally, it turns out to have been in the portion of the magazine you discarded.

I knew before I started cutting my magazines that this could be a problem, so I was conservative in my selection of articles to keep. I still made a few mistakes in my choices, but in every case where I have wished I hadn't discarded a particular article, I have found an intact copy of that issue at a hobby shop or show for less than $1. Problem solved.

QUOTE: 2. If you amass any significant collection of clipped articles, how are you going to reference what you've saved? If someone here, or in a current issue of MR, refers readers to the article on page 58 of the July 1978 issue, how will you go about finding it (if you happened even to keep it)?

I clip all the articles I want to keep from one issue, corner staple them to keep them together (this doesn't always work when there have been oversized centerfold pages, but then I can use a paper clip instead) and place each issue in its own plastic sheet protector in a binder. I always keep the table of contents and the front cover. The TOC goes on top of the stapled stack, and the cover goes on the bottom facing backwards so that it is visible through the sheet protector. This way, I can page forward through the binder to browse through the TOCs (a little tricky during the era of the two-page TOC), or I can page backward through the binder to look at cover pages which may remind me of an article I'm looking for.

This system works pretty well for me. Although there are some disadvantages to clipping articles, the advantages of saved space and easier access to articles are worth the effort.

Tom

[SOU Fan]

I have MR mags from the late 40's, and a year of model crafstman from the late 40's also. They are great references for just about everything.