Layout Startup Costs - Ouch!

[jockellis]

G;day, Y'all,
Inexpensive and hobby do not go together any better than safe and energy. We'll all spend whatever we need to do what we want. For the Atlas track plan 19 I'm nearly finished with I spent no more than about $30 a week for six months before beginning the table. Now the closer I am to being finished the more I see that I want to do with it because so much of it is so close to the edge. I figure I'll never finish. But that's OK since I enjoy working on it.
It would be nice to see if people with absorbing hobbies lived longer than those who just watch TV all night. Personally, I haven't watched but 1 show on network tv in five years and only have an in-attic antenna.

[devils]

I just spent £300 GB on trees for a new portable layout, It's been slowly taking shape for 8 years and that's the biggest single outlay, I recycle as much timber and track as I can and I buy a bit each month and studiously avoid adding it up or I'd never rip it out to improve it in the future! Spread the cost and enjoy operating it as you fini***he scenery.

[fwright]

There are ways to keep hobby costs down. I've never had more than $50 per month to spend on the hobby. But I use a somewhat different philosophy.

Money can (depends on the person) be just as much a constraint on a layout as time and space available. If money is a constraint (as it is in my case), then plan for it - just like you considered time and space available when designing your layout. Most experienced modelers know not to build more than they have time for (including maintenance). I just add $$ into planning.

An old MR editorial discussed cost per hour. I realized that if I built kits and avoided RTR and handlaid my track, my cost per hour would go way down. Not because I expected kits and hand-laying track to be that much cheaper, but because the hours would go up. I then had a cost per hour where time and $$ available per month matched. For instance, if my hobby budget is $50 per month and I can spend 8 hrs per week (two 2 hour evenings and 4 hours on the weekend) that gives 32 hours per month, and just over $1.56 per hour. A Labelle car kit will take me about at least 15 hours to finish, including painting and weathering (yes I'm slow). Cost is about $30 when you figure in kit plus trucks, couplers, paint, etc. And I've learned a lot of new skills along the way. But I'm a little over budget. Nothing a little operating time on the layout won't cure.

Biggest hurdle to my system is benchwork costs. Benchwork is an upfront significant cost that cannot be easily slowed to fit a budget.

Keeping the layout size within your means, and being discplined enough to buy rolling stock that fits the layout, and you have room for on the layout, keep the hobby quite reasonable. And you can still have a 1st class layout, it's just not going to fill a 20 x40 basement.

my thoughts, your choices
Fred W

[steamage]

I've never counted the dollars I've spent on this hobby. But I do know it is a lot less spent on most other hobbies. I've had years of enjoyment from Model Railroading and have met many new friends along the right-of-way. Wouldn't trade that for any price.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locodan5416



It's a hobby, spend what you got on it, why not?

Dan

I agree with your thoughts on the hobby.

When you calculate the cost of a new diesel pickup truck loaded being around fifty thousand out the door, the cost of this hobby over the years since I was involved is really inexpensive.

I probably have less than that over the last forty years in my hobby and have enjoyed it a lot more than a new vehicle that depreciates down to almost junk value in only ten years.

Most of my brass models were purchased during the early days and can be unloaded for much more than the paid price. That is not bad for a hobby.

[Anonymous]

This hobby maybe expensive, but consider..........

My main hobby is music. The bass guitar is my instrument. A good bass runs somewhere in the range of $800-$1500. There are cheaper but buyer beware. There are far more expensive but unless your doing studio work for a living, those basses would be over the top. Average musician owns three instruments. Do the math.

Then there is "support equipment". Just like the tools for MRR, instruments need TLC. This is easily another $1000. Plus, the stuff you buy and then realize you don't need or actually needed the bigger or better model, so add another $1000 for that.

Sound equipment can be considered the layout for musicians. Cheap but good system $2000, standard semi-pro club system $10,000 and an outdoor system that actually works - $25,000.


Yes, hobbies are expensive. I don't think the MRR is out of line and actually is inexpensive compared to some others. As mentioned before, a hobby should provide stress relief or some self-actualization.

As I tell new musicians, buy a basic set up and see if you like it. If you do, spend time learning which direction you wi***o go before dropping major coin. Once you know where you want to go, budget and save. Time is always on your side. Sometimes the items we can't buy today is obsolete tomorrow and you dodge a bullet. Most important, enjoy.

I think the same advise can apply to MRR.

[Ibflattop]

Ya know building a layout is like joining the Military. Ya sign like 35 sheets in your enlistment. Then when you get to basic, You sign more papers. Then when you get your equipment you sign more papers. Then when you get to school you sign more papers. Then when you finally get out you have signed your life away.
Why dont you try a monthly budgit. When that is gone, its gone. Kevin

[selector]

This whole thread is dependent on values. As the last several posts have intimated, there are any number of ways to blow cash, whether with promisory notes or with what one has in hand.

It is best not to look down one's nose at those who spend money on other forms of excitement or entertainment because the world would be a dull place indeed if everyone only dabbled in model trains. If our values set has no room for gambling, skirt chasing, smoking, drinking, carousing, street racing, drugs, prostitution (user or provider), and a host of others, it's fine with me. But, I would be delighted to have one of those folks enter my basement asking to see, and marveling over, my layout. When she leaves, she can spend her time and her other resources as she defines herself.

I think having a single intense interest or passion, on which one indulges one'sself, is a good thing, as long as one steps back to keep an eye on the rest of what ought to count in one's life. A loner/single person would have to do that less often perhaps, but anyone who is in an arrangement with another person will have to come up for air periodically to keep the relationship healthy.

Those who are happiest in life are those who can find contentment with their circumstances. This thread has demonstrated rather starkly that the range in circumstances, particularly one's means, is broad. I am rich beyond my dreams at present, but I have to be careful now having commited nearly Cdn $6000 on the hobby since New Years last year. It is becoming increasingly difficult to justify spending more on myself when I share a needy home with my wife, one at which she would like to entertain our children when they visit from time-to-time, showing them that they needn't worry about us.

To sum up, there is wisdom in the old dictum, "Possession is nine points of the Law." Your money is yours, so do with it what you will; just have the decency to accept all the liabilities you incur by doing so.

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locodan5416



It's a hobby, spend what you got on it, why not?

Dan

WELL PUT!!![:D]

[locodan5416]

If you look at live steam to get your fix, in 7.5" guage (1.6" scale).

It's 8,000 dollars for castings of a USRA Heavy Mike, probalby 3,000 dollars in a good lathe, milling machine, vise, drill press, drills, cutters, collets, dial indicators, and the crucial file. Then you've still got around 10,000 hrs machining/assembling/painting to build the engine. Then club dues at 60 dollars/year to run the engine at the club so your wife doesn't go off the deep end when you run the right of way thorugh her turnips, and a ashpit at the roses.

It's a hobby, spend what you got on it, why not?

Dan

[claycts]

We are sitting right at $30,000.00 which is about 70% of the final bill. That is the same price as the tune up on my Ferrari.
I spend more time, stress free on the trains.[:D]

[Anonymous]

If you think thats bad. I'm just switching from HO to N scale, so i have to buy Track, Engines, cars, and decoders. I am fortunate enough to be able to salvage all my benchwork from my HO layout. All i have to buy is plywood and maybe some 1x4s for wood. the track is cheaper than HO Code 83. and since i'm one of like 3 modelers in my area that uses N Code 55 i can get a pretty good deal on it. But your right it is hard to get started. I'm lucky enough to already have 3 engines and 16 cars. I should be starting on modifying teh exsisting benchwork as soon as i get my HO layout rements up.

[modelmaker51]

QUOTE: Originally posted by santafefan
no matter what hobby folks have it all costs money, my advice is just enjoy it and forget what it costs.

AMEN![:D]

[Anonymous]

I dont smoke, I dont drink, I dont shove money into a poker machine, a ticket to the football costs about $70, a ticket to a movie with drinks and popcorn costs about $30, I dont care how much I spend on trains, at least I have something to show for what I do spend, no matter what hobby folks have it all costs money, my advice is just enjoy it and forget what it costs.

[ErnieC]

I hope my wife doesn't read this thread!!!

[GAPPLEG]

Yes, started this latest layout 3 years ago, started by building a whole room, all drywalled, circuits just for the layout, lighting, etc. after those thousands, then the track, trains, scenery material , Don't even want to count it all up, won't even try, I just work off money I have, no charging. No money this week, no purchases. But what a great hobby.

[Medina1128]

I guess I got off easy. I did the slot cars thing back in the 60s when it was relatively cheap and there were plenty of places to race. Built my original layout back in the 80s. On my current layout, the most expensive items were tools. Wife bought me a table saw (I remember trying to build the original one with a Craftsman circular saw). I got a lot of the materials for my current one free (hardware stores often just throw away pallets. It's not the best wood for the benchwork or subroadbed but they make great legs. The foam for my scenery base was free too. We get about 4 sheets of 4x8 every week where I work and they just toss it out. Another source was contruction sites. If you ask the job foreman nicely, they'll usually tell you that you can have the scraps. I lucked out when I found about 20 sheets being removed when they remodeled the commissary at the base I shop at. Had to make a few trips, but it was still cheaper than buying that much new from Home Depot or Lowes.

[tatans]

As you can see above costs per individual vary between $150 for a basic construction layout table and other are spending $3,000, then some guys have 50 switches, 14,000 feet of track and include countless locomotives and cars and think nothing of blowing $20,000 and up, and which they think is normal, I'm glad to see a few (and I mean few) guys using used equipment, and imagination in what has become an extemely expensive hobby, This hobby is very much like a friend of mine who took his 14 foot aluminum boat and tried to join the local yacht club, now these boats were 65 feet long and cost 2 million and up, my freind was flabbergasted when he could not belong to the club, but he now knows where he belongs on the ladder, he later found a friend who had a small dock and he is having a blast. So it goes with model railroading, many, many modellers have vast amounts of money tied up in the hobby ( although they will deny it) and wrongfully assume every one else does, well, as above, it seems a few do not, but I think everyone is having a good time modelling.

[modelmaker51]

I've been in the hobby since 1965 (yeah, I'm an old timer[:D]) and I would have to venture a guess ( I've long since lost track) that I've spent 40-50 thousand bucks or more over the years, but then again if you work it out per year, it comes out about $1000 a year, which I think is about average for us older folks. I have been financing the hobby in part by doing custom work for others.

5th layout
100+ engines
600+ freight cars
50+ pass cars
NCE DCC
50 decoders (and counting)
1200' track
150 turnouts (1/2 motored - being converted to stationary decoders, 1/2 manual)
80 signals (& now installing stationary decoders)
Old block/cab system and several miles of 12 guage wire
150+ buildings (mostly kitbashed or scratch built)
vehicles & people & assorted details.

This dosn't include the fully equipped workshop and all the tools....

But you can't put a price on the enjoyment and the friendships I have made through this hobby.

[SilverSpike]

180 pieces of flex track and 58 turnouts - $1,300.00
Digitrax Super Chief with Wireless Radio and accessories - $763.00
Wiring, terminal blocks, and 3M Scotchloc connectors - $303.00
A lifetime of model railroading enjoyment - Priceless

[Anonymous]

Yes, this hobby can be expensive, but if you think the startup cost is high, use your calculator and price about twenty engines per year along with fifty train cars and all of the extra's you will need to maintain the layout. You may not get the same results as many of have in the past, but the figures can be shocking.

None of us will tell you it is an inexpensive hobby, but it is a good hobby and many hours can be spent working on projects that are very rewarding.

[Anonymous]

I was taught that trains and model building will prevent unnecessary trips to the doctor or the hospital due to stress problems etc. I cannot put a price on that compared to the hobby.

[Anonymous]

Many of the items mentioned above (room prep, etc.) are why I think it's great for beginners to start out with a 4 x 8 in the garage.

If someone likes the hobby, they'll continue, and won't mind spending the money so much.

Telling a beginner they need room prep, etc., is sure to scare them away.

I'm closely tracking how much I spend on the hobby this time around, just for my own curiosity. Should be interesting!

[Milwhiawatha]

I have torn down a layout to build the one I'm currntly doing. I was smart and kept/used the plywood, 2x4"s 1x4"s, and some foam from the previous layout. But two months ago I spent 150.00 in wood. Basically I bought other stuff at 1/2 off or where sale itemx. I still bought a lot of stuff normal priced. I do however think the layout if somewwhere in double digits of the thousands. With DCC, lighting, room prep, etc etc. so its typical to spend a lot when starting up.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Forget the cost per square foot theory, thats only used by real estate salesmen trying to flog houses, it's the most abused and unreliable system in estimating and any reliable contractor will not use it. Construction costs what it costs, 2 sheets of plywood, some 2x4's, nails or screws, foam , and go ahead and build it, if you want to charge yourself $75.00/hour labor (or $100 per square foot) go ahead, NOW----the costs for all the track, switches, electrics, your 50 new locomotives and 300 cars and 78 new building kits, this is where the money is, not on the basic platform construction, you're scaring off potential new train modellers.

Two points. When I was contracting, I often used the sq ft method, especially when giving a potential customer a rough guess as to costs. sq ft method can be pretty darned accurate once you know your building prices and when and where hidden costs are going to occur.

Second, when a newbee starts to design a layout and is serious about, they should understand that what they are building is not cheap and that a bad or poorly conceived plan is throwing good money on a plan that doesn't do the job. Last time I checked, rolling stock, building kits, and scenery are all part of layout construction costs and need to be calculated. Using the construction analogy, that would be like telling a person the framing is all you need and letting them discover the plumbing, fixtures, and carpenting costs on their own.

[BAYOUMAN]

the worst part about it is that we dummies will pay for the for the enjoyment of work our butts off only to be criticized by other dummies spending the same amount

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Surfstud31
Basically, I have spent about $1500 already and have not run a single train or even laid a single track yet. Ouch! Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? I estimate this layout could cost me in the neighborhood of $4000-$5000 at this rate.

I am not necessarily complaining as I knew it would cost some bucks to build a new layout. I guess I just didn't realize how many bucks it was going to take. Anybody else experiencing these startup costs?

Surfstud - Indeed, you are on the right track in your estimation of expenditures to get a layout up and running. As several posters have indicated, if anything, you are still probably on the low side of typical. A modest-sized but quality-level layout runs perhaps $7500 and up, with anything reasonably large can be in the $15000+ range. Most of the layouts you see in the pages of MR far exceed such figures.

That's not to say you can't have a nice looking, fully operational pike for much less - many fellas do. Just don't expect it to end up looking like the high-end magazine layouts!

CNJ831

[cmrproducts]

Well I figure I have about $30K in my layout but then again I have been in the Hobby for 40 plus years and a member of a club for 20 plus. So divide the 30K into 40 years and that is about $750 a year. I know that I have wasted a lot more and have a lot less to show for it!

My latest layout is in a 2000 sq ft basement and is only 5 years old. So I have a lot left to spend!

The layout has 3000 feet of track and 305 turnouts plus 850 cars alone and I have at least 50 engines, so you do the math!

And this is cheap when compared to doing Car Shows!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[twcenterprises]

Also, look at it this way.... Real railroads had to do a lot of time, money, and labor investment before the first train could run. Some lines took months or years and hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars to build before the first train rolled through. Some lines were used for a shorter time than some of us have been in the hobby. So, in this sense, we are also simulating how the real RR's do things.

Brad