Siskiyou Line photo time

[SpaceMouse]

Joe,

If some fool decided to fill his basement with 24-30" redwood trees, how would you suggest doing it?

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Joe,

If some fool decided to fill his basement with 24-30" redwood trees, how would you suggest doing it?

This is hypothetically of course,...right?[8D]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Joe,

If some fool decided to fill his basement with 24-30" redwood trees, how would you suggest doing it?

This is hypothetically of course,...right?[8D]

I know this guy, a good friend, you know, uh....that's it! My friend wants to know.

[Bob grech]

Wow! Love those pine tress. The best I've ever seen.
Keep up the great work.

Bob...

[james saunders]

Very Nice Joe! One of my favourite featured layouts!


-James-

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Joe,

If some fool decided to fill his basement with 24-30" redwood trees, how would you suggest doing it?

Hmm, depends. What's most important to you (chose any two):

1. Realistic
2. Inexpensive
3. Fast

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Joe,

If some fool decided to fill his basement with 24-30" redwood trees, how would you suggest doing it?

Hmm, depends. What's your most important to you (chose any two):

1. Realistic
2. Inexpensive
3. Fast

I would choose Realistic first and Inexpensive second. Something that big will look pretty cheesy if it is not pretty realistic. However, if it takes a week to make a realist tree, I might nave a few years in forestation.

Edit. Assume I can make the trunk.

[jfugate]

Okay, realistic and cheap means you have to make them all yourself and if you need to put a little elbow grease into it that's okay since you didn't pick fast. HO scale redwoods? 24" - 30" sounds about right. Would there be any background redwoods this size, or would they all be foreground?

Using Aggro's trees method would work for starters, but I'd suggest you look at the list of things I recommend to enhance the trees and pick the things from the list you are also willing to do.

A 30" redwood tree should be what, something like 3-4" wide at the bottom? Pete Vassler at Canyon Creek Scenics has made trees that size and he said they use scraps of fence posts from the building supply store and they carve them with a small chain saw. Sounds silly, Pete said, but it works, and it's effective!

You would also use up a lot of furnace filter material and ground foam on such large trees. But even making a dozen such trees would look darned impressive on an HO layout -- but they wouldn't be especially cheap -- I'm thinking because of the size you'd have to spend something like $10-$20 per tree. Pete sells trees this size for $60 - $90 but you can see they aren't cheap even if you make them yourself.

A conifer tree 24" - 30" is a lot of tree. My largest tree is something like 12", and most are more like 6" to 9". You can make a short tree look a lot taller if you mount it on a 3-4" rise in front of the tracks, which is what I've done in some places.

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks Joe,

I was thinking I had to go limb by limb. Chain saw, huh? I'd like to see pics if he has a website.

[jfugate]

The Canyon Creeks Scenics web site is http://www.canyoncreekscenics.com/

Here's one of their larger redwood type trees ...


(For a larger image, click here. )

[spidge]

Joe, Thanks for throwing in some dates here and there. It helps me to slow down a bit and keep things in percpective and not ru***hrough for bad results. As excited as the family gets now that I have trains running they want to just dive in and slap some scenery in, but I insist on more planning first.

Theres no hurry.

[spidge]

PS. very nice. I will be asking for your video series on fathers day.
Even though I model desert ( Cajon ) most of the principles will apply.

[Anonymous]

This thread demonstrates the new levels scenery has reached.

A couple decades ago, green paint was grass. The level of textures in these photos is unbelievable.

I am now fully convinced that fake grass stuff of some sort (other than ground foam) takes grass (well, the tall stuff we see on the hills here in California and Oregon) to a whole new level.

[jfugate]

Here's a closeup of my Rice Hill area, showing the grass (static grass, plus silflor):


(for a larger image, click here )

I agree that using proper grass filament texture elevates the model scenery to a whole new level, as this photo illustrates. It just looks "right".

The main guiding philosophical points I follow in my model scenery are proper *texture* and proper color.

Ground foam is the wrong texture for one of the most common things we see in nature -- grass. Grass is a filament texture and ground foam is a lumpy texture. Ground foam only looks good for grass if it's a very closely manicured lawn -- for longer grass, you gotta have the filament texture if you want it to look right.

That's why I make a *big deal* about texture in my upcoming scenery DVD. The tendency is to think because you've scaled it down you can ignore the texture in your model scenery and it will still look real. WRONG.

If there's one thing I'm a stickler for in the hobby, it's realistic model scenery. [swg]

[dxr8007nz]

nice and beautful scenery
I like your Southern Pacific locomotive too

[zgardner18]

Joe, my plans are to model the hills of Montana, If you've ever been there you would know that the hills are mostly grass with the higher elevations being pines. In my case would it be wise to invest in a static grass applicator?

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zgardner18

Joe, my plans are to model the hills of Montana, If you've ever been there you would know that the hills are mostly grass with the higher elevations being pines. In my case would it be wise to invest in a static grass applicator?

zg:

I'm a big fan of static grass, and if you want realistic grass texture and need a lot of grass everywhere, static grass is the way to go.

I've also tried fake fur, Silflor, sweat shirt grass, Woodland Scenics grass tufts, sisal rope grass tufts, and a few other techniques.

Silflor looks great for longer grass, but is really pricey. I've found a combination of Silflor and fake fur works best for modeling really tall grass without beaking the bank.

Sweatshirt grass works okay, but is tricky to do (you glue the fuzzy side of sweatshirt material down to your scenery with contact cement, then come back next day and 'rip up' the sweatshirt material really fast, leaving all the fuzz on the scenery.) The problem with sweatshirt grass is you often pull up parts of your plaster layer when you try to rip the sweatshirt material up.

Using Woodland Scenics and sisal rope grass tufts have their place, but to do a few feet of your layout scenery this way will be very tedious, gluing down every grass tuft one at a time. The grass tufts work in the foreground as an accent, but I wouldn't try to model an entire hillside with them -- it would take forever.

So long story short -- yes, static grass is excellent and I recommend it if you have a lot of scenery to cover with grass and scenery realism is important to you.

P.S. Plan on taking some time to experiment with the Noch applicator in order to get the best results. It takes a while to get the hang of it. The recent MR article on this static grass applicator is *excellent*.

[zgardner18]

Joe,
Did you use the Noch applicator on your layout? If yes, will you be demonstrating it on your upcoming video? What about the other ways that you just talked about?

What about water on your next video, will you have a segment on that too?
-Zak

P.S. Joe, what part of the Portland area do you live? I used to live out towards Sandy back around Y2K, and was playing baseball to the University of Concordia.

[jfugate]

zg:

Had not specifically planned on demonstrating static grass on the scenery video, but the grass chapter video footage has not been shot yet -- I'm inclined to add a demonstration of the static applicator to that chapter. I have a lot of static grass on the layout, but it was all done using a homemade applicator built from a 1980s MR article. A friend of mine built the homemade applicator and applied static grass on several dozen square feet of my scenery, with excellent results, although it took some practice at first. My friend has since moved away, so the Noch applicator is a timely new product for me to replace my buddie's gadget.

I don't have the Noch applicator (yet) but my friend Charlie Comstock does and we've been discussing the technique needed to get it all to work right since I have prior "static grass" experience with my friend's gadget. I need to get Noch applicator myself and work with it, so I'll do that and we'll report to you what I find in the scenery video.

I know from using the homemade applicator that you sometimes need to hold your mouth just right to get the grass fibers to stand up correctly and with practice you can have good results. From talking with Charlie about his Noch applicator, it sounds like the issues are similar to how the homemade applicator worked.

And yes, we'll be adding a creek to the Siskiyou Line scenery we'll be building in the video. The video is a series of step-by-step demos where we take a section of bare Siskiyou Line benchwork and go through the entire process in front of the camera, showing you every step along the way to get you a finished scene, complete with a trestle bridge, tunnel portal, scenery, backdrop, grass, bushes, trees, ballast -- the whole nine yards!

I live about 30 miles south of Portland just off I-5.

P.S. The scenery DVD should be out this fall. I'm also talking with MR about putting this material into downloadable video PDF format that they would sell, similar to the ballasting video PDF. So if you only wanted to know how to do just water, for example, you could get the water video PDF how-to from MR for a lot less than the entire DVD would cost from model-trains-video.com.

[jfugate]

Okay, this thread is called photo time, so time to post some more photos!

Here's one from the Rice HIll area on my layout:

(click image to enlarge)

A couple things that are notable about this location on the layout:

1. The benchwork pretty narrow here, generally about 12" wide. There's one choke point around the location of the tank cars where the benchwork is only about 6 inches wide.

2. This location is pretty high off the floor -- about 65" here. Because of this height from the floor, the fact the benchwork is so narrow is a lot harder to see when the scene is backed by trees against the backdrop.

The other reason why this high benchwork works so well at this location is there's no switching here. There's just a passing siding, and that's it. If you need to allow for industries and switching, then I don't recommend going over about 58" from the floor for such locations -- or be ready to keep lots of step stools handy for use by your operators.

Here's a couple more photos from this location:

Closeup of lead loco SP4408, a rebuilt SD9.

Another view of SP4408:

(click to enlarge)

By the way, here's how the real Rice Hill location looks on the prototype:


As you can see, the real Rice Hill location is just the main and a passing siding that's out in the middle of nowhere, backed by trees -- and that's how I modeled it. My model scene could use some more trees, but that's the bane of a western Oregon layout -- never enough trees! [swg]

[Anonymous]

I have a Question? How do you get that water to look so real? Is like a jell or something?

[zgardner18]

Joe,

On the real Rice hill, are they still running any trains over it or is it not being used anymore. Where exactly is Rice Hill in Oregon? I've been on the 5 through there so many times, I just can't picture the area. Last are there still tracks up the Siskiyou Pass at the Cal/Ore state line? (Isn't that Siskiyou Pass?)

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan

I have a Question? How do you get that water to look so real? Is like a jell or something?

BNSF:

I use Envirotex two-part epoxy resin. You can get it at craft stores, and it works just like epoxy -- you mix the resin and the hardener in equal parts, stir well, then pour. It hardens into a clear hard plastic in about 2 hours or so -- although you should wait overnight for it to be completely rock-hard.

You can get blue, green, and yellow dyes to tint it, so you can tint your water just about any color you like.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zgardner18

Joe,

On the real Rice hill, are they still running any trains over it or is it not being used anymore. Where exactly is Rice Hill in Oregon? I've been on the 5 through there so many times, I just can't picture the area. Last are there still tracks up the Siskiyou Pass at the Cal/Ore state line? (Isn't that Siskiyou Pass?)

Yes all the places you mention still have rails and are still running trains -- although now it's CORP (Central Oregon and Pacific).

Rice Hill summit is right along I-5 about 20 miles north of Roseburg -- the rails run right next to the freeway over the summit. At the bottom of the Rice Hill grade on the freeway is the town of Rice Hill (and the flat meadows at the summit of the grade is called Rice Valley -- go figure). Rice Hill is famous for the "Ice Cream place" that has dozens of flavors and if you order a single scooper you get almost a pint of ice cream for a reasonable price. You better be hungry if you order a triple scooper!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by conrail92

very impressive i like the moss on the trees

I agree, the moss really caught my attention. The water in the creek looks really good also. What kind of dye to you use to color the envirotex

[jfugate]

Scenic Express (Click here for their web site ...) sells both Envirotex and transparent blue, green, and amber dyes for it. I got the three dye set for 12 bucks. It only takes 2 or 3 drops per pour to give the Envirotex some tint, so you will have a life-time supply of dye!

I also paint my river bottom with the water coloration in mind, fading it from deep blue-green and blue-brown tones to more pure earth tones in the shallows that match the banks. The Envirotex tint simply augments that coloration. [swg]

[pcarrell]

Joe,
I've been lurking and learning on this thread, but now I have a question. You say that you paint the bottoms of your river beds and you tint the water. Do you just tint all the water one shade, or do you also do several pours of "water" in lighter and lighter shades as you go?

I know you mentioned using a little yellow in the top layer when you were talking about this earlier, and you mentioned coloring the lower layers, but you didn't mention whether you progressively lightened those layers or not.

[jfugate]

pc:

I did the bottom layout of the envirotex using a few drops of blue dye, the middle layer using a few drops of green dye and the top layer using a few drops of the amber (yellow) dye. If you are familar with a color wheel or the color spectrum then you know green is in between blue and yellow, hence the use of green dye in the middle layer.

[swg]

[jfugate]

This thread's called photo time, so it's time for more photos!


(For a larger image, click here.)

This photo is taken at King Creek, showing the Coos Bay Hauler crossing the King Creek bridge and about to enter tunnel 3. If you look at the full-sized image, you can examine the subtle rust weathering on this bridge.

Realistic weathering on metal object should be applied in multiple layers for the most realism. I used Polly Scale paint here to do the rust, applied in 3 layers. The first layer is a general splotchy rust wash, the second layer is a near-full strength application of distinct rust spots and then removing some of the paint with a Q-tip, and the third layer is done doing dry brushing after the first two layers have dried.

Here's the same scene taken from the opposite direction.


(For a larger image, click here.)

Again, you can study the rust detail in the enlarged view.

Also note Tunnel 3 (about 3 carlengths long) has a complete lining modeled. I build a form out of styrofoam, draped crumpled aluminum foil over it, and poured the lining in three pours - first laid everything on it's side and poured the side with a thick mix of plaster - after that set up, turned things upright and poured the top with thick plaster. Once the second pour set up, I turned everything so the unpoured side was up and poured thick plaster into the foil on that side.

After everything set up, I removed the form from inside, and pulled the aluminum foil away from the plaster, which left me with a U-shaped tunnel lining. I used some more plaster to correct any imperfections and unrealistic "crinkled" spots in the lining, painted it dark brown and dusted it with brown and black dry powdered tempera paint -- especially along the roof where loco exhaust accumulates, and set it in place. I added the tunnel portals and then built the mountain over it.

And there you go -- a nice realistic tunnel lining. [swg]

[Master of Big Sky Blue]

Joe Fugate: That name sounds Vaugley Familiar.

Oh wait, Aren't you the Greek God of Model Train Scenery?

All kidding aside, I enjoy your work It is phenominal and I hope to buy your DVDs when the 4 Box set comes out. And I hope you keep sharing your work with the rest of us for many years to come.

I do have a question though. Were you the person that Invented Mushroom Style Benchwork, Or just the first person to apply it in a signifigant mannor?

And here is a scarey thought. What will happen in say oh 20 years, You take a look around your layout, And suddenly realise Everything is done. What will happen then?

James