yard \turntable \operations info please

[wickman]

Hi Folks
I've read and read and read but I seem to be having a bit of a time finding info in layman terms that a newbie like myself can comprehend.
I'm revamping my HO plan ( running Steam engines) trying to get a yard put into my plan as well as turntable. I do have the below bench staging yard already. For a yard I kinda understand what is needed.This is what I've learned as yet the arrival and departure track is directley off the main line double ended , seems the service facility is attached to a/d track,theres a siding for cabooses and then the yard lead is connected to the a/d track ( also needs a run around) which is then connected to a sorting yard. please correct me if I'm incorrect.

My Questions are these
1. should or is the service facility for the steam engines normally connected to the yard?I've seen many plans where its off in the far corner away from the yard.

2. If its not connected is it normal to be far away in its own area ?

3. how many rails are needed for a/d tracks can it be achieved with one track ?

4 Does the engine thats pulling the train into the a/d track just drop the train to the a/d track and leave it there and go get serviced?

5.( if shortage of room ) for the sorting yard is it normal practice in model railroading to have 4 short tracks rather than 2 long tracks then join the train up when ready to depart?

6.For the yard lead should that track also be connected to the main line or to a siding because I would think once the cars are sorted for delivery I would think the switcher leaves the track and the main line engine would come in pick up the load then pick up the caboose and go make the drop offs.

7 If I have industries all over the layout which need cars dropped off and picked up would I plan to have the train which is dropping off cars to pick up the empties I mean would'nt the train become too long here and there?

8 Is it a common procedure to have a yard and turntable way over on the other side of a layout far from the main industries or is more normal to try to fit the yard in close to the industries?

I hope these questions aren't to dumb

Here are 2 versions of my thoughts in the plans





Lynn

[jlsmith7017]

Lynn, there are two relatively new Kalmbach books out that could help you - one's on designing yards and the other is on designing engine facilities. I'll take a stab at answering your questions but don't take this as gospel - you'll find all sorts of variations in real life and modeling.

1. Yes, try to keep you engine facilities near your yard. Not required but more convienient.
2. Often the prototype had facilities quite far away but we usually don't have that much space on our layouts.
3. One A/D track is fine for a smaller layout. Two is better. More than that is really only needed for large club-sized layouts with multiple yard operators. The number is really dependent on how many trains arrive/depart your yard in a given time.
4. Yes. Generally anyhow. In some small yards, the fuel truck might come to the engine.
5. Yes. Not only in modeling but in prototype operations, too. When space was short, railroads would build the train on multiple tracks and then add them together.
6. The yard lead (or drill track) can be independent but, usually, given our small layouts, it serves double-duty as part of a passing siding, branchline, industry lead, etc.
7. That's the fun of switchiing - you gotta figure it out based on the track(s) you have to work with. [:D]
8. I've seen it both ways.

I recommend the Kalmbach books. They are very helpful and not too expensive.

- Jeff

[Anonymous]

Hi Lynn.
My layout will be an engine terminal and yard which will be a division point between two divisions.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman


My Questions are these
1. should or is the service facility for the steam engines normally connected to the yard?

On the prototype, generally engine terminals are near the yard but seperate.

QUOTE:
2. If its not connected is it normal to be far away in its own area ?

There's a prototype for everything, so there is no hard rule saying that they have to be in the same location. If the railroad had the hard luck of having to locate a terminal in a inconvenient spot, the topography would dictate how a terminal is laid out.

QUOTE: 3. how many rails are needed for a/d tracks can it be achieved with one track ?

Yes, if you only have space for one a/d track, you can make it work. It would be, however, a bottleneck and you will need a passing track somewhere down the line to hold arriving trains to allow the departing train to pass.

QUOTE: 4 Does the engine thats pulling the train into the a/d track just drop the train to the a/d track and leave it there and go get serviced?

Not if it needs only fuel and water and it's through train, fuel and water should be avalible on the main or siding (but also available on service tracks)
If the locomotive needs more than fuel and water, then yes it's cut off. If it's a through train and cars do not get switched but the locomotive is due for inspection and service, a freshly turned (serviced) locomotive should be waiting and quickly connected. Don't forget the brake test before departure.

QUOTE:
5.( if shortage of room ) for the sorting yard is it normal practice in model railroading to have 4 short tracks rather than 2 long tracks then join the train up when ready to depart?

Unless you have unlimited space (and who does) it's normal practice to "compress" selected elements of a track arraingement.

QUOTE:
6.For the yard lead should that track also be connected to the main line or to a siding because I would think once the cars are sorted for delivery I would think the switcher leaves the track and the main line engine would come in pick up the load then pick up the caboose and go make the drop offs.

It's best to have a tail track for switching moves to free up the main. As I said, there's a prototype for everything and a small yard on a railroad with light traffic could use the main, however there would be a yard limit point where trains would have to stop and receive permission to proceed.

QUOTE:
7 If I have industries all over the layout which need cars dropped off and picked up would I plan to have the train which is dropping off cars to pick up the empties I mean would'nt the train become too long here and there?

If the train is not an express and would become too long for longest passing siding before the next yard, then a local train would handle the switching.

QUOTE:
8 Is it a common procedure to have a yard and turntable way over on the other side of a layout far from the main industries or is more normal to try to fit the yard in close to the industries?

It all depends how much space you have. It would be more interesting and better for operations if the industries were away from the yard.

QUOTE: I hope these questions aren't to dumb

And I hope my answers are correct. If not, flame on boys!

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman
My Questions are these
1. should or is the service facility for the steam engines normally connected to the yard?I've seen many plans where its off in the far corner away from the yard.

It would be nice if the locomotives could come and go straight from service to the trains they are assigned. But even in real life, here in Denver, power for the Colorado Eagle (MP)and California Zephyr (D&RGW) came from the Burnham shops which were about three miles from Union Station. On the other hand the CB&Q locoshops are just off the Union Station throat. The engineer could barley pull the throttle and he is home.

QUOTE: 2. If its not connected is it normal to be far away in its own area ?

There is no normal. UP North Platte Nebraska has a major locomotive servicing facility right next to a (the?) major yard. SF heavy locomotive shops in Cleburn TX weren't really associated with a large classification yard at all (that was in Ft Worth). Anything you want to do will work. Of course on a model railroad I can't imagine them not being "close".

QUOTE:
3. how many rails are needed for a/d tracks can it be achieved with one track ?

Depends on how many trains are arriving and departing. On a small layout, a single arrival and departure track is very common and practical. On our club layout when I work one of the larger yards I arrange it so I have two arrival and two departure tracks (this is at the expense of using classification track #1 as a departure track).

QUOTE: 4 Does the engine thats pulling the train into the a/d track just drop the train to the a/d track and leave it there and go get serviced?

Generally yes, but it depends on the practice of the specific railroad. Some times the road engine is responsible for putting away their own caboose. Sometimes the road engine has to wait until the yard goat pulls the train off before it can excape to service. Sometimes the road engine crew leaves and the yard goat switches the road engine to the servicing facility just like it is a freight car (more so with diesels than steam).

QUOTE: 5.( if shortage of room ) for the sorting yard is it normal practice in model railroading to have 4 short tracks rather than 2 long tracks then join the train up when ready to depart?

I don't know if one would call it normal, but certainly do-able. I would think if this was true than the trains being run are longer than the layout should really have.

QUOTE: 6.For the yard lead should that track also be connected to the main line or to a siding because I would think once the cars are sorted for delivery I would think the switcher leaves the track and the main line engine would come in pick up the load then pick up the caboose and go make the drop offs.

If I understand what you are asking, it would be connected to the arrival and departure tracks.

QUOTE: 7 If I have industries all over the layout which need cars dropped off and picked up would I plan to have the train which is dropping off cars to pick up the empties I mean would'nt the train become too long here and there?

That should be covered by your railroad's rules and practices. What is the longest allowable train. Are new cars set out behind the existing ones or in front of them. Does a certain local, say #501, pick up empties or not. Does a certain train only deal with stock cars, oil cars, etc.... These are the things you define to make your railroad work how you want it to.

QUOTE: 8 Is it a common procedure to have a yard and turntable way over on the other side of a layout far from the main industries or is more normal to try to fit the yard in close to the industries?

I presume you mean only on a model railroad. If the industries were right next to the yard what would be the point of making up trains to go to the industries? One could just as easily move the cars directly to the industry. I personally hate industries that are connected directly to the yard. They really clog up the normal yard operations.

[wickman]

Thanks guys some really great info there Im going to take it all in to make sure I understand it all , but you's made it pretty clear and simple.
I did have one question in mind on a layout for switching operations is one engine ever sent out pulling nothing starting at the first of many industries pick up a load from there then go to the next industry and drop it off there. Most of my industries will provide for the next like lumber mill will have wood for chair factory and pallet manufacturer . Or is it more typical to go from the yard with the cars picking up and dropping off ?
Just trying to get the feel for operations .
Lynn[:)]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman

Thanks guys some really great info there Im going to take it all in to make sure I understand it all , but you's made it pretty clear and simple.
I did have one question in mind on a layout for switching operations is one engine ever sent out pulling nothing starting at the first of many industries pick up a load from there then go to the next industry and drop it off there. Most of my industries will provide for the next like lumber mill will have wood for chair factory and pallet manufacturer . Or is it more typical to go from the yard with the cars picking up and dropping off ?
Just trying to get the feel for operations .
Lynn[:)]

It happens all the time in my neck of the woods. An engine, Actually 4 or 5, will go out to the coal mines and pick up cars for delivery to the power plants. Usually, they take empties with them, but not always.

[dinwitty]

The N&W is no stranger to having their massive Y articulated running their whole train backwards running doing a local run. The local run might not have a Wye or turntable so they just ran the loco backwards.

[wickman]

Thanks Chip for the info