Static Grass Applicator???

[SPFan]

The circuits at this site http://atw.huebsch.at/Elektronik/Elektrostat.htm should work and would not be very expensive (<$30). You could also build a simple device using an automotive ignition coil, a high voltage capacitor and a set of points with a motor driven cam to open and close them like your engine does. Farmers have been using this circuit for years (Model T parts) to make electrofied fences. You don't need 25 KV the coil puts out so instead of using 6 or 12 volts on the coil primary, just use 1 volt or less. Connect the capacitor across the high voltage side to store the charge. Or find an old lawnmower engine, remove the carburator and spark plug and spin it with an electric motor. Attach the spark plug wire to your "wand"

Pete

[Ziggy]

Noch Grassmaster is on sale through Walthers for $99.98... it was in the flier that I got on Tuesday.

[dave hikel]

I have the Noch tool and am using it on a current layout project. I'm a full time builder, so it's easier to justify the cost, but I would say the results are worth the money. It's a nice tool that's easy to use and you can do large areas in a very short time. Compared to the old "turbo" gun the grasmater is a HUGE improvement, especially when doing tall (8mm) grass. When the folicles leave the grasmaster they shoot towards the surface to which you have attached the wire lead. The velocity generated helps to deposit the flock in what ever glue you're using. You can even get the grass to "bend over in the wind" by aiming the gun at an angle.

You can get a good selection of flocks from Scenic Express and many other places. I've run other brands of flock through the grasmaster with the same results as the Noch brand flock. I've also used some flock blended with fine turf foam and other "stoney" grit materials. The grit goes through just fine, but the static charge prevents the turf from sifting to the ground when it lands on the table.

If your looking to do a layout with a lot of prairie grass or maybe a field of wheat, I'd say pony up the bucks for the Noch tool. Besides, you can alwasy resell it on Ebay when your done.

[ukguy]

I think I'll just go buy one from Scenic Express, (and some other goodies [:D]) $116 isnt so bad when you consider the money some of us spend on other items in the hobby. I would much rather see my $200-$300 Challenger (when I get one) , with however many $$'s of cars behind it running through the best scenery I can create.

I would also much rather pay the $116 than spend weeks researching and building one(probably at near the same price) only to have a mishap with 'my' creation and end up in the emergency room (at best).

Sounds like a bargain to me. I guess it depends on personal priorities. [2c]

Have fun & be safe
Karl.

[tutaenui]

Try URL http://www.1zu160.net/test/noch-grasmaster.php for illustrated info on static grass and the Grasmaster. If your German is not up to scratch try Googleing "grasmaster" and use the Google translation service. It should be the first site on the list. There is a much bigger selection of static grass in Europe, with lengths of 2mm, 5mm (Feld Gras), and 8mm (Wild gras), than is available in the USA. I have seen a circuit for a home made applicator using a half wave battery charger and a car ignition coil. Looked a bit lethal to me.

[jfugate]

Terry:

Scenic express sells the Noch applicator for $116, which isn't bad. See:
http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1149

[ARTHILL]

Has anyone tried the shaker bottle with a magnate that Sassi pictures in his scenery book???

[scubaterry]

David where did you buy yours?
Terry

[Anonymous]

I have modelled with the author for many years. Although we currently live 12000 miles apart he was staying here just last weekend.

The Home made applicator in the May article is based on the 80s article. The details differ due to materials to hand, but the principle is the same.

The High voltage generator can be made from surplus static supply generators from equipment like photocopiers. Don't do it unless you know how. The Noch Grasmaster or any of a number of handheld commercial flocking devices are alternatives - but they do cost money.

The Grasmaster is mediocre. I have used the author's device and own a Grasmaster. As it comes, the charge is not impresive and the resevoir is far too big. A new head according to the 80s MR article improves things quite a bit.

[Rick54]

check page 39 of the Kalmback book "Scenery Tips & Techniques" for an article by D. Derek Verner about this type of machine. It shows a construction diagram and some pictures on pages 40 - 43. Rick54

[DavidH]

The Noch Gras-Master (not a misspelling!) Very expensive but a neat piece of goods. I need large expanses of tall grass in various areas, and this thing will be just the ticket.

David

[Anonymous]

David,

Which applicator did you buy?

[DavidH]

I just bought one on Wednesday. A quick test with WS flocking produced fabulous results. The fibers all stand up straight.

David

[Anonymous]

Mondo,
Dumb question, when you puff out the fibers, do you use the spout on the bottle or spout off?

Anyone know how Woodland Scenics suggest applying Static Grass. Their Scenery Manual gives no clues.

Thanks.

Steve

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

What makes the electrostatic application attractive to me is that, if I read the article correctly, repeated applications result in someof the grass attaching end to end with previosly applied grass. Thus you would end up with grass of varying heights. Would love to see live what the results look like. Is it worth the bucks? Hmmmm. I'm sure some folks that value scenery aove all else would say "heck yeah" while those that prefer other aspects of the hobby would disagree and many would somewhere in the middle.

If the results are how they appear, it might be worth it to delay buying a couple of engines to get some great looking scenery. Hmmm. I'll have to process this thought for awhile (this from the guy who spent 3 months to decide to go DCC and then another six to decide which system).

BTW: Joe, fantastic work in the pic!!

Also - some of the posts on the previous page had me rolling on the floor in laughter. You guys rock!

For added applications of the grass, how do you apply the glue prior to blowing on the grass? It seems that dribbled or sprayed on glue would ruin the effect of the first layed down material.

[davekelly]

What makes the electrostatic application attractive to me is that, if I read the article correctly, repeated applications result in someof the grass attaching end to end with previosly applied grass. Thus you would end up with grass of varying heights. Would love to see live what the results look like. Is it worth the bucks? Hmmmm. I'm sure some folks that value scenery aove all else would say "heck yeah" while those that prefer other aspects of the hobby would disagree and many would somewhere in the middle.

If the results are how they appear, it might be worth it to delay buying a couple of engines to get some great looking scenery. Hmmm. I'll have to process this thought for awhile (this from the guy who spent 3 months to decide to go DCC and then another six to decide which system).

BTW: Joe, fantastic work in the pic!!

Also - some of the posts on the previous page had me rolling on the floor in laughter. You guys rock!

[Milwhiawatha]

Why not take a shaker bottle take two pieces of foam on either side rub it against another piece of foam static electricity is created and vola static grass applicator. Or so I think. You could also call in frankinstein and hook something up to him.

[Anonymous]

This static grass stuff is very interesting.

I will be modeling southern california, where my layout will most likely be mostly dirt. Mixing ground foam and dirt just never quite looks right to me.

Now this stuff - wow! Maybe worth buying the applicator.

How much does the grass stuff itself cost?

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate


(click to enlarge)

Wow, the combination of these materials is frighteningly realistic looking.

It's as if we've truly entered the "textured" age of model railroading.

First, they painted plaster green and called it grass. Then they used dyed sawdust. Then ground foam.

Now we have actual model 3 dimensional grass! Nice!

[underworld]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Budliner

Tesla Coil

Budliner

I think you use this one for the Larger Than Life scale model flocking!!!!!

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Budliner]

Tesla Coil




or
Vandegraff Generator here's a how too
http://www.gocs1.com/gocs1/Psionics/Vandegraff%20Generator.htm



K

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

...I have a couple of containers of the WS static grass and have tested by simply
sprinklng it over thin glue... it worked okay, but I would like it to stand up a little better.

I would say that better than half of it stood up while the rest layed over. I'm going to use
lots of static grass on the new layout, but I want it to look like the real thing.

Dave.
Maybe try a thicker or tackier glue like matt medium. Or let the white glue sit up a little longer to the point it's just sticky enough to hold the flocking but not wet enough to let the grass fall over.
In the article on the Noch tools, the author said he had better results with the shaker bottle half full.
Just for the heck of it, charge up a piece of plastic by rubbing a cotton cloth just out of the dryer back and forth vigorously. Or even a balloon rubbed on your arm. And hold it just a few inches over the flocking. Try charging up the shaker bottle too.


Good luck to you too!

[underworld]

You can increase the static charge in the Palmolive bottle by first loading the grass fibers....shaking the bottle thoroughly....and then (seriously) rub the bottle with an inflated latex balloon. There are also many plans for static generators, and complete units available on line.

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Well I guess that answers the question "Does anybody know how to make a static grass applicator"

Yes, it can be done and has been done. Although the procedure is not laid out step by step.

But the question now is, is it worth the work building it? The chance of it not working as well, if at all, as the Noch product. And the very real possibility of physical harm? In that respect it is very much worth the money.

Then again, if you have the experience and know how to work safely with high voltage, have the parts on hand, confidence in your skills and plenty of time, only you know if it's worth a try. At least you could learn something.

We all like to get the most bang for our buck. Yes it is a nice tool and it does a great job doing what it’s supposed to and it cost a lot less than it use to.

I think what underlying question that started this subject is what else will my $125 buy (tool with shipping)? Better or more turnouts? A few more decoders? A locomotive?
We probably already spent at least a couple hundred bucks for a good starter DCC system. A few hundred dollars, maybe more, for locomotives with sound decoders. Track, turnouts, switch machines, structures, scenery supplies, ect., it all adds up.
I supose it's hard for some of us to swallow buying a tool we most likely only use for a short time. Especially if a guy has to justify his spending money on his hobby to his wife, if not to himself.

Maybe there's another solution. Perhaps a few friends can chip in to buy one and share it (but then, who gets to keep it?). Resell it on eBay? Start a new career building layouts?

[mondotrains]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

Mondotrains -Does the puff process add any static effect or just blow out a little grass, some of which stands up by random chance?

Hi Art,
I'm really not sure whether my approach actually creates any static and makes the grass stand up. I thought the applicators were just an expensive way of blowing the grass onto the glue. I didn't realize that the applicators made all the grass stand up straight. I just know I'm happy with the way the grass looks that I've blown onto the layout with the empty bottle.

Hope this helps.
Mondo

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter

Dave
I think it might have something to do with the size of the fiber. The GrassMaster comes with two screens, 2mm and 4mm for the flocking that Notch sells. If the flocking is too large for the screen it will only clog up the applicator. Too small, you may not have as good as control over the flocking.
I checked the Woodland Scenics site, but the size of the flocking is not given.

Thanks Gary,
I have a couple of containers of the WS static grass and have tested by simply
sprinklng it over thin glue... it worked okay, but I would like it to stand up a little better.

I would say that better than half of it stood up while the rest layed over. I'm going to use
lots of static grass on the new layout, but I want it to look like the real thing. Good luck. Dave

[Anonymous]

Dave
I think it might have something to do with the size of the fiber. The GrassMaster comes with two screens, 2mm and 4mm for the flocking that Notch sells. If the flocking is too large for the screen it will only clog up the applicator. Too small, you may not have as good as control over the flocking.
I checked the Woodland Scenics site, but the size of the flocking is not given.

[jwmurrayjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gsetter

I found an interesting article on testing the Noch Static Grass Application Tools.
The results of the test found if your doing a small area, the $4 Grass Dispenser Bottle works better than the $150+ gun applicator.

Try this one.

Thanks for the link,

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MReditor

The Noch Gras Master is a completely different tool than the older Noch "turbo" gun, and we've found it to be very effective, as long as you use one of the recommended types of fiber.
Thanks for reading MR,
Terry

Terry,
I am curious about "recommended types of fiber"... does this include Woodland Scenics Static Grass as well? The reason
I ask is that the Woodland Scenics product is more readily available to me. Thanks, Dave

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Wouldn't it just be easier to cough up $116 and buy one of the Noch applicators from Scenic Express?

http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1200

After having seen the 1980's article Wimhurst machine contraption (see my previous post) in operation, that's my opinion. $116 is a bargain compared to the expense and hassle of trying to cobble together and use other means to generate a good static charge.

Silflor and fake fur have their uses (and I use them too), but there's nothing like static grass to cover pastures with some great looking grass in any thickness level you want. [swg]

The latest MR article on static grass illustrates the marvelous control and results you get from this technique.