Your industries....Alive & Thriving or Dead and shut down.......

[loathar]

I just got one of my E-Mails from Walthers that had a "modeling tip" at the bottom of it.
It said if you model companies that have been shut down, you can save on buying details like people and products that you would find at a company still in business. It talked about how to make a broke down looking abandond company and save money...............
Now, I understand what they are saying.(It's a fact of our economy).
I drive across 3 crossings that led to 15 companies on my way to my new job that I HOPE I DON'T LOSE!!!! Only 2 companies in this park still use rail for their supplies.
I personally want to represent a thriving rail industry on my layout.
If we go for shut down companies with less detail, aren't we helping to shut these industries down????????(or the companies that model them)
Wouldn't this mean less money for Walthers??????
Maybe I'm just off the wall on this one, but it didn't make much sence to me.
I'm working 3rd shift now and I've been up for 20 hours so maybe I'm just not seeing the sence in this.
What's your opinion on this.......

[NeO6874]

in a larger layout, that has a large city, it would add a little variety to hava a run down industry. say maybe the old shipping and receiving facilities of company A - which have since been moved to a larger building, perhaps with more rail connections... (which is still on the layout of course)

or perhaps the old interchange with a fallen flag (that your RR has bought out)...

then again, if you have TOO many abandoned industries, then there might be the argument that the RR shoudn't be serving the town anymore, as there isn't any way to profit...

[RedGrey62]

I think they are just looking to help those that are trying to accurately portray a run down industrial area. Since most of us want to model "thriving" industries to give us an excuse to switch, Walthers is actaully trying to make money with this idea. Sure, you don't need all the "same" details as an operating industry, but you still have to buy the structure to represent the abandoned one, maybe some fence to go around it, various type of junk and of course weeds and bushes to represent the overgrown look. Not sure anyone is going to save money in creating abandoned industires! [;)]

Rick

[Jetrock]

Hmmmm....was this the APRIL newsletter?

[XG01X]

I use the beat down look. They still get service but have that urban feel. Paved over brick windows, metal siding over windows, and so on. I want my railroad to reflect a Urban theme; things come, things go but there will be some industries that stand the test of time. Look at Downtown Deco they sell buildings that have that run down appeal and look great.
Travis
http://www.downtowndeco.com/

[tomikawaTT]

One of my coal mines loads several trains a day. The other loads a few cars when, as and if. Both are based on prototype operations that existed in Japan while I was stationed there.

The when,as and if mine is cleaning out the last dregs of a mined-out seam, operated by a few members of three families of miners who will retire (or seek other employment) when they run out of coal to mine. The surface workings reflect that fact.

Chuck

[MisterBeasley]

An active industry need to be serviced by the railroad. A shut-down industry doesn't. So, while it may be "cheaper" to model a derelict factory, it's more interesting from an operational standpoint to have all active factories. Of course, you might want to model an abandoned building just across the tracks from a live one, so you could still spot cars there. Or, you could take revenge by making the abandoned factory one that's only served by trucks.

[loathar]

Modeling Tips & Tricks

Great Fun in Modeling Abandoned Scenes

In every area there are railroad-served businesses that have closed or scaled back, leaving behind abandoned buildings and facilities. They offer great opportunities for detailing using scenery materials and won’t require a lot of vehicles or figures.


Modeling an abandoned scene is easy; simply place a structure and its associated siding on your layout. Leave out the connecting turnout as though it has been removed. Weather the unused track with rust and cover it with tall grass and weeds.

Board up or break some windows on the buildings, make cracks in vacant parking lots with weeds growing in them and, perhaps, hastily paint out a few signs. Decorate the buildings with faded, peeling paint. If your business is large and surrounded by a fence, add a guardhouse at the front gate, perhaps with a single vehicle parked next to it. If your business had landscaping, don’t forget to make it look overgrown and unkept, especially if your company has been closed for a long time. Finally, add “No Trespassing” signs along the perimeter.

I guess what I'm getting at is this really depresses me to see this in real life. I know it's prototypical, but I don't think I would want to see it and be depressed while I'm running trains.I would like to think the city leaders(ME) had planned things out well enough so the industries didn't die.(unlike the town I'm living in)
[;)][;)]

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

I just got one of my E-Mails from Walthers that had a "modeling tip" at the bottom of it.
It said if you model companies that have been shut down, you can save on buying details like people and products that you would find at a company still in business. It talked about how to make a broke down looking abandond company and save money...............
Now, I understand what they are saying.(It's a fact of our economy).
I drive across 3 crossings that led to 15 companies on my way to my new job that I HOPE I DON'T LOSE!!!! Only 2 companies in this park still use rail for their supplies.
I personally want to represent a thriving rail industry on my layout.
If we go for shut down companies with less detail, aren't we helping to shut these industries down????????(or the companies that model them)
Wouldn't this mean less money for Walthers??????
Maybe I'm just off the wall on this one, but it didn't make much sence to me.
I'm working 3rd shift now and I've been up for 20 hours so maybe I'm just not seeing the sence in this.
What's your opinion on this.......

I think Walthers has a firm bet on the basic optimism of model railroaders. The scale industries, if not booming, will be healthy enough to support ongoing rail traffic. A healthy "scale economy" will support X amount of failed companies by absorbing any displaced workers in newly formed companies or employment needs of the healthy companies. This ebb and flow from failed to new or healthy companies will of course be accomplished before scale displaced workers unemployment benefits run out.

Those who model steam can take comfort in the employment statistics of their operating RR's. Steam always required a substantial infrastructure to keep it up and running. When reading of the real RR's when steam was king I am continually impressed that their shops could from scratch build their own locomotives.(Guess they produced their own freight cars with one hand tied behind their back. [:D]) Those shop workers had a very impressive skill set. [;)] [:D]

Jon

[twhite]

Naah--not on the WWII Yuba River Sub, at least. We've got two industries here--gold mining and lumber. Haven't installed the lumber industry yet (still looking for some room for it) but the two gold mines--the Champion, out of Deer Creek and the Kentucky Mine in Sierra City are alive and well and booming.
Of course, the mines will shut down between 1950 and 1960, and after 1960, the lumber industry will fizzle out, but hey, I'm not THERE, yet!
So local industry is still alive and well on the Yuba River Sub.
Tom [:P][:P]

[chutton01]

Well, in the real world there are lots of companies in existance which do not use rail but are still operating (as the OP himself stated he say) - so I would presume in a Model Railroad sense that would be the worst of all worlds, having to 'super-detail' an operating plant, but getting no rail usage out of it.

[Anonymous]

What's the chance that next month Walthers will have an item on demotition equipment... cranes, loaders and trucks? Well it's what I would do.
In a city area you have to knock down before you build again.
Because the railroad usually got surrounded by the industries it served we usually got the worst face of any city when times got rough. It looked awful for time, then new factories appeared. Only thing wrong was that all too often they were served by trucks not rail.
Does anyone do really good models of cranes in H0? You know the lattice jibbed crawlers that swung the wrecking balls...

Have fun :-)

[underworld]

It's another view you can give to your layout. Walthers could be on to something here.........if you don't have any abandoned/out of business structures...then you could buy some new kits to represent these! Also, they may be thinking that they could sell more kits if people werent as concerned with all of the accesories that you might want or need to go with the kit. I thjink Walthers might be feeling the economic pinch, and these are two possible ways to boost sales. Plus run down buildings can look pretty cool. [8D]

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Alive, Thriving and Dead...sounds like the layout John Allen is building in heaven [angel]

[Anonymous]

You could still have plenty of detail with abandoned factories. Plenty of decal companies offer grafitti. Woodland scenics has figures of hobos and homeless people. Preiser has figures of punks and Merten has a few figures of winos. You also still have plenty of junk and weeds overgrowing along with heavy weathering around the abandoned factory.

[GAPPLEG]

Really hat to "waste" the operating space on non-functional industires, Real world or not I want MAX operation and switching.[2c]

[loathar]

twhite-GOOD to hear it! As leader of my little world, NO ONE will be layed off and put on food stamps and no companies will be allowed to go under!!!(I'm sick of seeing that happen for real where I live!)

[XG01X]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

An active industry need to be serviced by the railroad. A shut-down industry doesn't.

Not true. I know of a paper mill that was idled(no production) but still recieved heating oil and maybe another chemical for maintence people to keep it idled.
I use my abandon factories as space fillers right along the backdrop. I just believe if you model present time these industries are here. Think of how many industries you see that have a dock and got rail service at one time but don't now, same concept. To say that everybody is open and going and getting rail service...seems far-fetched.
One of my abandoned factories is in the corner of my yard, so its an open area; I made it show some age and then I put protestors around it, for a Union Strike Shuttered plant. Throw some cop cars in, it gives it some action.

[Anonymous]

Ah the thread started from after WWII, move those industries south, no unions, no high taxes, better quality but cheaper products. Ooops, off further south to Mexico, cheaper goods, no unions, lousy quality. Now we have container trains fresh off the ship winging there way to Wal-Mart warehouses to deliver cheaper goods from China to citizens without income to buy, much less drive to cracked parking lots over grown with weeds at a closed down factory.
You may think your "government" should solve the "problem" much like it has handled the Katrina debacle. Maybe we all should give some pause to concider how we do our own jobs and the value we offer to our neighbors as consumers of "our products", and look for our "neighbors offerings" before we buy our next Toyota or Honda. Cheap is good when you have income to buy. Perhaps we should be looking for "neighbor" made product more often, and offering well made quality goods to keep our railroads in "business" and our factory parking lots well used.

Will

[jecorbett]

I hadn't thought of this. Generally, we build industries to be customers for our railroad. Modeling a shut down company would be strictly a scenic element since it would have no function for the railroad. It might be worth modeling just for variety, but a shut down plant is going to require as much real estate as an active one and square footage is at a premium on any model railroad. I'll have to figure out where I could squeeze one in but modeling a structure with boarded up windows and a weed covered siding with rusted rails or maybe no rails at all could be an eye catcher.

[Anonymous]

Well, we buy stores,gas stations,diners,houses,farms etc that don't serve the railroad ,so an empty factory isn't that bad an idea. Generally speaking though , we like the interaction of an industry needing a freight car

[Jetrock]

I still think people were missing the point...remember the MRR article on modeling a Rails-To-Trails scene, and which month's issue featured that article...

[waltersrails]

i have afew all working but one it got shut down. ill try to post a pic on my site

http://ztrainman.tripod.com/

[bcawthon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jecorbett

I hadn't thought of this. Generally, we build industries to be customers for our railroad. Modeling a shut down company would be strictly a scenic element since it would have no function for the railroad. It might be worth modeling just for variety, but a shut down plant is going to require as much real estate as an active one and square footage is at a premium on any model railroad. I'll have to figure out where I could squeeze one in but modeling a structure with boarded up windows and a weed covered siding with rusted rails or maybe no rails at all could be an eye catcher.

Time to think outside the (Walthers kit) box. Use some DPM pieces to build a flat on your backdrop. If you want to get fancy, you could use a few more pieces and give it a little depth. Paint the area behind it flat black. Use a sheet of clear styrene for glass and fog it with spray matte finish. Weather to you heart's content. Add your fencing and litter; it won't take much.

An old derelict factory buildings isn't necessarily a sign of bad times. The previous occupant might have outgrown it and built a larger facility. The old building wasn't suitable for a new operation, so it is awaiting the time it will be torn down and a new building will take its place. You could even have a demolition survey crew looking it over and seeing how they will take it down. It still involves people and accessories, but those could be as simple as a few guys in hard hats and a pickup.

[loathar]

bcawthon-Hmmmm....Bussiness district renewal and a demolition crew. Now THAT'S somthing I could get into modeling. Thanks for the idea.

[bcawthon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

bcawthon-Hmmmm....Business district renewal and a demolition crew. Now THAT'S somthing I could get into modeling. Thanks for the idea.

Really! Who the heck needs to model depressing stuff on a layout?

By the way, here in Houston, when UP abandoned the old M-K-T westbound tracks that ran parallel to Interstate 10 several very active businesses, including the one that makes Igloo coolers, tried to prevent it because they wanted rail service. I guess UP wanted to save money more than it wanted to serve customers.

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcawthon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jecorbett

I hadn't thought of this. Generally, we build industries to be customers for our railroad. Modeling a shut down company would be strictly a scenic element since it would have no function for the railroad. It might be worth modeling just for variety, but a shut down plant is going to require as much real estate as an active one and square footage is at a premium on any model railroad. I'll have to figure out where I could squeeze one in but modeling a structure with boarded up windows and a weed covered siding with rusted rails or maybe no rails at all could be an eye catcher.

Time to think outside the (Walthers kit) box. Use some DPM pieces to build a flat on your backdrop. If you want to get fancy, you could use a few more pieces and give it a little depth. Paint the area behind it flat black. Use a sheet of clear styrene for glass and fog it with spray matte finish. Weather to you heart's content. Add your fencing and litter; it won't take much.

I have a whole string of backdrop industries opposite my main yard. Had this idea come up before I built this area, I could easily have incorporated a derelict structure into the area. The problem now is that they are served by a common service track that runs parallel to the mainline track. Abandoning one is not going to yield much of a scenic element since the track leading to it would still be maintained for the neighboring businesses. I do have one stand alone spur that serves a bottling plant that would be a good candidate for abandonment. I'd hate to let it go since it is one of my most active businesses. Empty glass bottles in, filled bottles out on a daily basis. Actually, I'd hate to part with any of my active businesses. A better idea might be to find a spot along the undeveloped parts of my railroad to plant an abandoned spur. Not a lot of spare real estate left though.

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcawthon

QUOTE: Originally posted by loathar

bcawthon-Hmmmm....Business district renewal and a demolition crew. Now THAT'S somthing I could get into modeling. Thanks for the idea.

Really! Who the heck needs to model depressing stuff on a layout?

By the way, here in Houston, when UP abandoned the old M-K-T westbound tracks that ran parallel to Interstate 10 several very active businesses, including the one that makes Igloo coolers, tried to prevent it because they wanted rail service. I guess UP wanted to save money more than it wanted to serve customers.

Companies aren't in business to serve customers. They are in business to make money. Serving customers it the means to that end. If that abandoned line had been making money for them, I'm sure they would have kept it. If it was a loser, it wouldn't make sense for them to maintain it for the benefit of another business. I can't fault UP for that decision.

[bcawthon]

I can fault UP. UP closed that line following their merger with SP. It was one of several closures and a factor in the freight mess that almost paralyzed rail traffic in Houston and led to the Surface Transportation Board threatening to void the merger if UP didn't get things straightened out.

[Walter Clot]

Why not put the factory in with it's old name highly weathered. Then place a sign out front saying, "Coming Soon. . . ." what ever you want to make. Put some tractors and bull dozers around with workment everywhere. Later when you decide what you want, change it! This will give you the best of both worlds, out with the old, in with the new!