Soaring Gas Prices and an abundance of Coal. Do you think steam will ever make a come back?!

[Fergmiester]

Just curious as to what your thoughts are

[simon1966]

I bet the interest in clean burning coal fired power stations with steam turbines will continue! Should start to see a lot more coal drags, which has to be good for the RR companies.

[cwclark]

I doubt steam will come back because not only the sulphur air polutant in the coal is one deterant but the water issue to make steam is another...the trains have to stop more often to fill up with water..it takes 1 gallon of water to make 8 pounds of steam and most tenders carried only 30,000 gallons of water...that's a lot of stopping for a steam locomotive to run on average of a 200 psi steam load....I did pick alternative because the railroads are trying to experiment with a diesel powered generator that switches to battery powered electricity when they are fully charged...I believe there was an article on it in an MR mag just a few months ago...chuck

[RoyalOaker]

As much as I'd like to see it, this will probably never happen.


I read an article in Popular Mechanics about a new engine being produced by GE that has a much more efficient and powerful engine. Don't have it it front of me to give a better explaination, but they are trying to produce better equipment as we speak.

One of the cool things about this new engine is that they are going to use the breaks to feed battery packs.

[GAPPLEG]

10-15 years back GE had a test engine running on a mixture of diesel and super fine pulverized coal, injected just like any diesel. It ran for quite a few years. The major problem noted was the pulverized coal wore out the injectors very fast, maybe with newer technology you might see that come back.

[GAPPLEG]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RoyalOaker

As much as I'd like to see it, this will probably never happen.


I read an article in Popular Mechanics about a new engine being produced by GE that has a much more efficient and powerful engine. Don't have it it front of me to give a better explaination, but they are trying to produce better equipment as we speak.

One of the cool things about this new engine is that they are going to use the breaks to feed battery packs.

Yes, we are working on that as we speak, it's going to be a high horsepower version of the Green Goat, that rail power makes. Dynamics will feedback to charge batteries for addtional power rather than relying on a higher notch and fuel consumtion. Details are unknown to me at this time, but it may be in production late this year.

[Anonymous]

Steam the way you want to see it will never return in mainstream use. However liquid fuel made from coal will probably be in our future.

[claycts]

Can you just see the enviro nuts when a coal buring Challenger pulls up to their town!!
Sorry but not in our liftime, MAYBE if the could use an atom source to generate steam but that would be more practicle for electric operations.

[vsmith]

No, too many inefficiencies in traditional steam, too many technological problems with the above mentioned. Be more likely to see more electrification powered via nukes than the return of traditional steam.

[railroadyoshi]

IF coal ever returns to powering our trains, I think it will be in the form of coal-fired power plants supplying electrified rail lines. The steam locomotives, majestic as they may be, were inefficient, and unreliable (Stereotype...In general).

[IRONROOSTER]

I don't think it will bring back steam locomotives. But higher gas/oil prices could spur electrification if the cost of generating the electricity is far enough below gas/oil. Even that would only be on some higher density lines.
Enjoy
Paul

[edo1039]

I voted no,because if you cant smoke in public in California the liberals wont want coal smoke in the air either,and they are the biggest consumers of gasoline in the world,one day the big one will hit there and they can become there own country.

[Berk-fan284]

No the economies of steam operations are non existent (outside of coal generated power plants), the same infrastructure requirements for the steam locomotives and the added burdens of environmental and safety compliance makes steam even more expensive.

[Anonymous]

I voted No.

Union Pacific did a study during their deiselization. They found it took three people per diesel locomotive to keep that unit sufficeintly supplied and operating properly. (Not considering heavy maintence) It took 17 people for a steam locomotive.

James

[Anonymous]

Sure it's coming back. I hear BNSF called ALCo and ordered 100 4-8-4s[;)]

Actually it's not coming back and I voted "no".

[Anonymous]

No way steam will ever come back. Too expensive to wire all the track for electric operations. They will stay diesel for the foreseeable future with possible tricks installed as regenerative braking, computer efficency controls, and even remote or computer operation. They could save some fuel by slowing them down if not for the increase in cost for operators, so I see them slowing them down and letting a computer drive them from point a to b. Any other changes are probably cost prohibitive. Now if fusion comes on line all bets are off. Fred

[Anonymous]

Most likely not. Now that we're going to start producing cars than run on an ethanol/gas mix (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), they'll probably develop a locomotive that can run on that stuff too.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

.it takes 1 gallon of water to make 8 pounds of steam ... chuck

I'm really curious where you came up with that, Chuck. Can you explain, please?

[Jetrock]

MR did a story during the oil crisis before last (seventies or eighties) about a modern steam locomotive using modular coal packs and a high-efficiency water system. Diesels replaced steam because they are much, much more efficient in their use of fuel: in order for steam to return, it would have to be more efficient than gas/diesel power.

[whitman500]

1 gallon of water weighs 8 pounds (1 pint = 1 pound; 8 pints in a gallon).

[Anonymous]

LOL... Man what are you smokin!

[Anonymous]

Not in the classic sense. Perhaps coal liquification or gasification. In distant future perhaps coal fired generators for electric trains.

[myred02]

Ever heard of Ethanol? That's what I put in my Corvette-engine-powered Camaro. (It's a Chevy LS1that runs on premium unleaded usually, but I have found that Ethanol runs as good as premium if not better). I think Ethanol will catch on eventually. [:)]

-Brandon

[Tilden]

It would still be more efficient to convert the coal to fuel and run diesels.

[Anonymous]

I voted No, and my reason seems to be the same as others, the pollution factor. Air quality is already at it's worst ever and continues to get worse. Perhaps if science found a way to burn coal cleanly then it might come back, but not with current technology.

Trevor

[underworld]

I would be looking at producer gas (gas made from plant waste, garbage, etc) it's far from a new technology and any gasoline engine can run on it (at reduced power)
and diesels can be made to run on it with modification.

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[tomikawaTT]

The one thing that made diesels win out was, and is, electric traction. All rotating parts, perfectly balanced, no dynamic augment, all equating to more tractive effort at the railhead - especially at start and at very low speeds. Note that the significant advances in railroad motive power relate to the parts between the alternator and the wheels. AC in a locomotive doesn't mean house current. It means a very sophisticated, computer controlled motor input, adjusted to load and speed literally every microsecond.

Exactly what powers the alternator isn't all that important. It could be a diesel engine, steam turbine, gas turbine, reciprocating steam engine (Google 'Heilmann' for sample) or even a (very) big drum full of hamsters. As long as it can spin an alternator and develop sufficient power to drive the traction motors, it'll work.

It's a safe bet that any new North American locomotive will have electric traction, so let's look at steam driven alternators. The best term available for the relationship between steam-electric power and American railroads is 'unhappy.' Both the C&O and the N&W discovered that the slam-bang of railroad operations was incompatable with the marine type power plants they had adapted. (Ships may pitch and roll, but the motion isn't abrupt.) Also, coal dust got into EVERYTHING! Could you imagine the havoc that getting abrasive, conductive, acidic dust into the computerized controllers of a modern AC locomotive would cause?

As for any rebirth or resurgence of reciprocating steam locos - fuhgeddaboudit!

Chuck

[warhammerdriver]

Between the tree huggers and the EPA, I regret to say that steam as we knew it is gone for good.

You'd need the frame of a Big Boy or a Challenger to carry all the pollution controls and only get the power of a Mike out of it.

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwclark

I doubt steam will come back because not only the sulphur air polutant in the coal is one deterant but the water issue to make steam is another...the trains have to stop more often to fill up with water..it takes 1 gallon of water to make 8 pounds of steam and most tenders carried only 30,000 gallons of water...that's a lot of stopping for a steam locomotive to run on average of a 200 psi steam load....I did pick alternative because the railroads are trying to experiment with a diesel powered generator that switches to battery powered electricity when they are fully charged...I believe there was an article on it in an MR mag just a few months ago...chuck

Maybe someone could come up with a way to pick up water while running at speed. [;)]

Jon

[Anonymous]

Bio fuel? You can run your auto on cooking oil if you don't mind it smelling like a fast food joint when someone got the fryer wrong... and (here at least) you don't mind the Excise men being on your tail for evading the (massive) duty on road diesel.
But the Brazilians run there cars on ethanol so...?
Then again, if we want renewable fuels... why not replace the dynamic brakes with wind turbines... if they come down hill faster they will charge up the batteries fast to get up the next rising grade...