Balast, "wet" water

[Anonymous]

I am presently making a diorama. I have been an "armchair modeler" for years without much interest in dioramas. However, since where I live lends no room for a layout the next best thing are diromas. Mainly these dioramas are to display cars and locos so I am fussy regarding the looks of the finished balast. I have tried the ol' 50/50 of white glue and water with a little dish detergent, but this still beeds up, puddles...arrrgh! [:(!][:(][V] Hm. I came across a forum post describing isopropinol (sp?) alcohol in water and applied with a mister-sprayer to get the balast wet enough to aleviate the...nasty stuff!

What is the mixture of water to alcohol[?]

[:)] The dioramas give me the flexibility to experiment with different techiques and to focus upon the details. I want to thank Malcom Furlow, Dave Frary (sp?), George Seleos (sp?), and the other contributors of such fine craftmanship in MR for inspiring me[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

I am presently making a diorama. I have been an "armchair modeler" for years without much interest in dioramas. However, since where I live lends no room for a layout the next best thing are diromas. Mainly these dioramas are to display cars and locos so I am fussy regarding the looks of the finished balast. I have tried the ol' 50/50 of white glue and water with a little dish detergent, but this still beeds up, puddles...arrrgh! [:(!][:(][V] Hm. I came across a forum post describing isopropinol (sp?) alcohol in water and applied with a mister-sprayer to get the balast wet enough to aleviate the...nasty stuff!

What is the mixture of water to alcohol[?]

[:)] The dioramas give me the flexibility to experiment with different techiques and to focus upon the details. I want to thank Malcom Furlow, Dave Frary (sp?), George Seleos (sp?), and the other contributors of such fine craftmanship in MR for inspiring me[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[DavidH]

I use 50/50, but some go with 100% isopropyl. I find the 50/50 works fine but that may be a function of the fact that we have almost perfectly soft water in this area.

David

[DavidH]

I use 50/50, but some go with 100% isopropyl. I find the 50/50 works fine but that may be a function of the fact that we have almost perfectly soft water in this area.

David

[Anonymous]

Most of the folks I know of who use alcohol, use it full strength in a sprayer. (Be careful, though, if you smoke. Alcohol is flammable!). As soon as they have the ballast wetted, they apply matte medium or dilute glue with an eyedropper.

[Anonymous]

Most of the folks I know of who use alcohol, use it full strength in a sprayer. (Be careful, though, if you smoke. Alcohol is flammable!). As soon as they have the ballast wetted, they apply matte medium or dilute glue with an eyedropper.

[Anonymous]

You have to thoroughly wet the ballast with wet water - and I mean thoroughly - before you apply the white glue and water mixture. And if the mixture is off (not 50/50 like you thought, but more like 30/70% glue and water, you'll have problems with the ballast). Use a very large eye dropper with the glue/water or one of the old glue bottles. Spray more before adding the glue/water mixture if it starts to dry out. Your ballast can't be too wet, but it can be too dry - then more problems.

[Anonymous]

You have to thoroughly wet the ballast with wet water - and I mean thoroughly - before you apply the white glue and water mixture. And if the mixture is off (not 50/50 like you thought, but more like 30/70% glue and water, you'll have problems with the ballast). Use a very large eye dropper with the glue/water or one of the old glue bottles. Spray more before adding the glue/water mixture if it starts to dry out. Your ballast can't be too wet, but it can be too dry - then more problems.

[Anonymous]

I have actually used urethane varnish diluted with mineral spirits as a scenery adhesive with some success, although this usually contains some yellowish color depending on the type of varnish you get. When applied over foliage, this color is very natural looking, and the varnish adds a bit of sparkle to the foliage, the way real leaves are slightly shiny. It may be possible to adapt this to tracklaying / ballast, but I have not tried it yet; I'm sure there must be clear varnish with satin fini***hat will dry flat.

Another concern might be that this method "waterproofs" your scenery, which may seal moisture either in or out; if the layout is not in a humidity-controlled environment (i.e. air-conditioned), this might produce some unwanted effects.

[Anonymous]

I have actually used urethane varnish diluted with mineral spirits as a scenery adhesive with some success, although this usually contains some yellowish color depending on the type of varnish you get. When applied over foliage, this color is very natural looking, and the varnish adds a bit of sparkle to the foliage, the way real leaves are slightly shiny. It may be possible to adapt this to tracklaying / ballast, but I have not tried it yet; I'm sure there must be clear varnish with satin fini***hat will dry flat.

Another concern might be that this method "waterproofs" your scenery, which may seal moisture either in or out; if the layout is not in a humidity-controlled environment (i.e. air-conditioned), this might produce some unwanted effects.

[wp8thsub]

"I came across a forum post describing isopropinol (sp?) alcohol in water and applied with a mister-sprayer to get the balast wet enough..."

That was me (at least I know somebody reads my posts).

The mixture isn't critical. I get good results from less than 10% isopropyl alcohol to 90% water. You only need enough to break down the surface tension in the water; any more is overkill. One potential problem with using a higher proportion of alcohol is that it evaporates so quickly you can lose some of the benefit of wetting the ballast in the first place before applying glue.

I've tried mixing the alcohol in with the diluted yellow or white glue, but that lead to the glue mixture coagulating into a gooey mess after a short time in the bottle.

[wp8thsub]

"I came across a forum post describing isopropinol (sp?) alcohol in water and applied with a mister-sprayer to get the balast wet enough..."

That was me (at least I know somebody reads my posts).

The mixture isn't critical. I get good results from less than 10% isopropyl alcohol to 90% water. You only need enough to break down the surface tension in the water; any more is overkill. One potential problem with using a higher proportion of alcohol is that it evaporates so quickly you can lose some of the benefit of wetting the ballast in the first place before applying glue.

I've tried mixing the alcohol in with the diluted yellow or white glue, but that lead to the glue mixture coagulating into a gooey mess after a short time in the bottle.

[Anonymous]

I too have tried the alcohol and glue trick and it failed the with astounding misery[xx(][:(!]

[Anonymous]

I too have tried the alcohol and glue trick and it failed the with astounding misery[xx(][:(!]

[DavidH]

For chemical reasons, alcohol will cause polyvinyl-type glues to curdle. This will not occur unless you try and mix them in a liquid state. Applying glue to ballast soaked with alcohol will not have this effect.

David

[DavidH]

For chemical reasons, alcohol will cause polyvinyl-type glues to curdle. This will not occur unless you try and mix them in a liquid state. Applying glue to ballast soaked with alcohol will not have this effect.

David

[Sperandeo]

I use full-strength isopropyl alcohol (which is ordinary drugstore rubbing alcohol) to wet the ballast both before and after applying diluted white glue. I buy the strongest alcohol solution I can find, usually 70 percent, but I've used 90 percent and that's even better.

I use tap water to dilute the white glue in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. For the reasons Colin and David mentioned, I do not put alcohol directly into the glue mixture.

The alcohol penetrates the ballast better than any "wet water" solution I've ever tried, and if the glue does pool or bead up on top of the ballast , a couple of spritzes with my alcohol sprayer sends the glue flowing in where it belongs.

As Rick Nicholson said, you have to get the ballast thoroughly wet to start with, and then get the glue to flow into it. Once it's all wet with alcohol and glue, DON'T MESS WITH IT. You can fix any holes or "washouts" later after the ballast has had time to dry.

So long,

Andy

[Sperandeo]

I use full-strength isopropyl alcohol (which is ordinary drugstore rubbing alcohol) to wet the ballast both before and after applying diluted white glue. I buy the strongest alcohol solution I can find, usually 70 percent, but I've used 90 percent and that's even better.

I use tap water to dilute the white glue in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio. For the reasons Colin and David mentioned, I do not put alcohol directly into the glue mixture.

The alcohol penetrates the ballast better than any "wet water" solution I've ever tried, and if the glue does pool or bead up on top of the ballast , a couple of spritzes with my alcohol sprayer sends the glue flowing in where it belongs.

As Rick Nicholson said, you have to get the ballast thoroughly wet to start with, and then get the glue to flow into it. Once it's all wet with alcohol and glue, DON'T MESS WITH IT. You can fix any holes or "washouts" later after the ballast has had time to dry.

So long,

Andy