NCE PowerCab: A Quick Look review - PLUS Resolving issues

[sledgehammer]

In my book it says that the power pro will run 63 cabs at once and 250 trains simutaneousely. I'm not sure if this is the 5 amp or 10 amp model.
does this help

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

On the DCC 4 Everyone Yahoo group they discussed the issue of 2 trains in the recall stack and then calling up a third loco which takes off at the speed of the last one being used. Someone had called NCE about it and the response was that it would be fixed in the next release of software. So I guess it is just a glitch that we have to live with for now.

Kevin, thanks for the input about that. [:)]

I just had a chance to verify Craig's findings a little while ago. I first called up and ran two locomotives simultaneously. I then added a third locomotive, and it started at the same speed step that the second or last locomotive was running at. As Craig stated before, if the two speed steps are similar - no problem. But if one locomotive is running considerably faster or slower than the other locomotive, you really notice the sudden surge or drop in speed.

I also found another interesting peculiarity with the PowerCab. When I pu***he emergency stop button, it ONLY stops the locomotive that is called up. I found this VERY unusual because when I pressed the emergency stop on my Bachmann, it would shut EVERYTHING down that was running on the track. When I referred to the Users manual about it, I found that on pg. 15, it concurred my findings with the following blurb:

QUOTE: EMERGENCY STOP
Pressing EMERGENCY STOP will stop the active loco/consist for this Cab only. Speed will be immediately set to zero (no momentum). Loco is restarted by changing the speed step or direction."

I discovered that if I run two locomotives, in order to shut BOTH of them down, I have to press EMERGENCY STOP, then RECALL (for the other locomotive), then EMERGENCY STOP again. That just seems so bizarre to me. [%-)] Removing the PowerCab from the Power panel also does the same thing but that seems pretty drastic.

Is this the case on any of the other DCC systems like Digitrax, Prodigy Advance, Lenz, or EasyDCC? I personally would rather have it shut everything down when I press that "big RED panic button".

Tom

Well I guess that answers that question. You SHOULD be able to keep calling up locos until you either run out of capability of the command station to manage them or you run out of power, whichever comes first. Now I'm really curious as to how many trains you can start up and just let run on a full PH system with just one throttle.
As for the E-Stop on Digitrax, it can be programmed to either stop just the train you have control of, or shut down the whole thing (at least on the DT400). And even if the stop is programmed to only kill your train, with a DT throttle you can kill trakc power as well - UT4 users cannot control track power.

--Randy

[simon1966]

This issue of using a 2nd cab deserves some further investigation. According to Tim above, the 2nd throttle gets control of a loco from the PowerCab. The description suggests that the Powercab has to select the loco and then assign or dispatch it over to the 2nd throttle. Surely the 2nd throttle operator can key in the address of the loco that he/she wants to control on the throttle and needs no intervention from the Powercab? Otherwise the 2nd operator would have to disturb the Powercab operator every time they want to run a different loco.

[tstage]

Craig,

Does Locomotive #2 then jump to/take on the settings of Locomotive #1? Or, does Locomotive #2 behave/start out like it's supposed to, even though the speed steps for Locomotive #1 are displayed?

Tom

[CraigN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Ouch! Tell me that's not true! The PowerCab and NCE ProCab use an encoder to control speed, not a potentiometer. There is no reason why if you have Train 1 running at 50% throttle, and then select Train 2 which was not previously selected that it should take off instantly at 50% speed. It shoudl do exactly NOTHIGN until you move the speed control.
They way you describe it, it works liek the potentiometer control on the Zephyr. Select a new address withotu first settign the speed control to 0 and the new loco will instantly take off (or slowly, if you programmed momentum into the decoder). Yet another reason I prefer encoder throttles and seldom use my Zephyr console now that I have a DT400.
The Zephyr and the UT4 potentiometer throttles have an option that allows the newly selected loco to slowly adjust to the knob setting, rather than all at once. However, an encoder throttle shouldn't have this issue.
Likewise, if you stop one train, and the select one that is already moving - with an encoder throttle it should keep moving at the original speed, not stop just because the previous loco was stopped. It shouldn't matter about a recall stack, at least, that's not the way Digitrax functions. I do this all the time, select a train, start it running, and then release it to run a different one. When I go back to the original, not using the recall option but just keying in the number and selecting it, it does not change speed or direction until I move the knob.

--Randy

Craig can correct me if I'm wrong. What I think Craig is saying, Randy, happens only if you are attempting to run 3 locomotives at the SAME time and not two - i.e. Locomotive #1's speed setting is removed from the stack now that Locomotive #2 & #3 are in motion or called up. Running the two locomotives that are recorded in the stack, you don't have that problem. Is that correct, Craig?

Tom

That is correct.

Another issue that I am now having concerns the select loco button. When I 1st power up and select a loco everything is fine. But for some reason when I select another loco to operate, the speed and direction of the last loco controlled is displayed. This is without using the recall button at all.

[tstage]

Larry,

To go along with what Tim said, the extra throttle HAS to run on address "3" of the PowerCab in order to work.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Tim,

Finally, Thank you!!! This is the answer I was looking for. There had to to be some way to transfer control to a second controller. The fact that the main hand held controller is also a walk around powerpack of sorts was confusing. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tim_Seawel

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry Boyd

I understand the the main throttle has to remain plugged in the left side of the power panel. My question is if you are running a loco using the main throttle, how do you transfer control to the second cab to run the loco farther down the layout when the main throttle will not reach far enough?

Larry it seems your question hasn't been answered yet. You have to assign the 2nd throttle an address just like you would a loco. You bring up the loco you want on the Power Cab and then bring up a screen that asks you which throttle you want to assign it too and then press enter, it's has simple as that. The PC has tthe ability to run one additional throttle on its own or 3 additional throttles with the addtion of the smart booster. Hope that's what you were looking for.

Tim--------Happy new Power Cab owner!!

[tstage]

Simon,

Since I'm new to this particular aspect of DCC, I'm not entirely sure. My guess is that you'd need to replace either a small board or some type of plug-n-play chip in order to upgrade the PowerCab. I'll let someone else chime in that has more experience in that area.

Tom

[simon1966]

Tom, since there is already mention of a firmware upgrade (I would think this emergency stop issue would qualify for an upgrade as well) how is this accomplished with the Power Cab?

[tstage]

I think I tried pushing the emergency stop button several times but nothing else happened. I'll double-check that this evening.

Tom

[Tom Bryant_MR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage
...

QUOTE: EMERGENCY STOP
Pressing EMERGENCY STOP will stop the active loco/consist for this Cab only. Speed will be immediately set to zero (no momentum). Loco is restarted by changing the speed step or direction."

Tom

The Power Pro manual has a couple of additional statements in addition to the quote from the Power Cab manual above. Pu***he Emergency Stop button 3 times to shut down track power with subsequent message "LAYOUT STOPPED" on the display. Only the cab that initiated the full stop can clear this by pressing the enter key. All other cabs can then resume by issuing a command to their respective loco's.

Maybe manual has a bug (e.g. missing info) ?

-Tom B

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by knewsom

On the DCC 4 Everyone Yahoo group they discussed the issue of 2 trains in the recall stack and then calling up a third loco which takes off at the speed of the last one being used. Someone had called NCE about it and the response was that it would be fixed in the next release of software. So I guess it is just a glitch that we have to live with for now.

Kevin, thanks for the input about that. [:)]

I just had a chance to verify Craig's findings a little while ago. I first called up and ran two locomotives simultaneously. I then added a third locomotive, and it started at the same speed step that the second or last locomotive was running at. As Craig stated before, if the two speed steps are similar - no problem. But if one locomotive is running considerably faster or slower than the other locomotive, you really notice the sudden surge or drop in speed.

I also found another interesting peculiarity with the PowerCab. When I pu***he emergency stop button, it ONLY stops the locomotive that is called up. I found this VERY unusual because when I pressed the emergency stop on my Bachmann, it would shut EVERYTHING down that was running on the track. When I referred to the Users manual about it, I found that on pg. 15, it concurred my findings with the following blurb:

QUOTE: EMERGENCY STOP
Pressing EMERGENCY STOP will stop the active loco/consist for this Cab only. Speed will be immediately set to zero (no momentum). Loco is restarted by changing the speed step or direction."

I discovered that if I run two locomotives, in order to shut BOTH of them down, I have to press EMERGENCY STOP, then RECALL (for the other locomotive), then EMERGENCY STOP again. That just seems so bizarre to me. [%-)] Removing the PowerCab from the Power panel also does the same thing but that seems pretty drastic.

Is this the case on any of the other DCC systems like Digitrax, Prodigy Advance, Lenz, or EasyDCC? I personally would rather have it shut everything down when I press that "big RED panic button".

Tom

[Tim_Seawel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry Boyd

I understand the the main throttle has to remain plugged in the left side of the power panel. My question is if you are running a loco using the main throttle, how do you transfer control to the second cab to run the loco farther down the layout when the main throttle will not reach far enough?

Larry it seems your question hasn't been answered yet. You have to assign the 2nd throttle an address just like you would a loco. You bring up the loco you want on the Power Cab and then bring up a screen that asks you which throttle you want to assign it too and then press enter, it's has simple as that. The PC has tthe ability to run one additional throttle on its own or 3 additional throttles with the addtion of the smart booster. Hope that's what you were looking for.

Tim--------Happy new Power Cab owner!!

[knewsom]

On the DCC 4 Everyone Yahoo group they discussed the issue of 2 trains in the recall stack and then calling up a third loco which takes off at the speed of the last one being used. Someone had called NCE about it and the response was that it would be fixed in the next release of software. So I guess it is just a glitch that we have to live with for now.

[tstage]

Randy,

I understand what you are saying about the encoder. My Bachmann had a potentiometer and exhibited the immediate acceleration or deceleration when switching between locomotives. I wouldn't expect that with the thumbwheel design. I'm going to try the same experiment with my PowerCab and see what happens.

Tom

[draftingplans]

Tom,
Interesting about that recall that it only holds 2 loco's, that is okay if you can't change the recall number like the Power House Pro system.
I was very curious about the Power Cab and think that with the information generated in this post you have made my decision to get one for my "N" scale layout. My Power House Pro is used on my "HO" layout.
NCE is the best investment I have made, my first system was Atlas and is now used by our clubs modular traveling "HO" layout, my second system was a Digitrax and it was not user friendly so I sold it, now I use NCE and I really like this the best.
Barry

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Craig can correct me if I'm wrong. What I think Craig is saying, Randy, happens only if you are attempting to run 3 locomotives at the SAME time and not two - i.e. Locomotive #1's speed setting is removed from the stack now that Locomotive #2 & #3 are in motion or called up. Running the two locomotives that are recorded in the stack, you don't have that problem. Is that correct, Craig?

Tom

I just read through the PowerCab manual and it doesn;t mention this, only that it can recall 2 locos and can run up to 12 at the same time (if there's enough power of course). What I'm saying is that even if you do enter a third loco, pushing the first one off the recall stack, not only should that old first loco keep runnign at the same speed and direction it used to be runnign at, but when you go back and once again select that one, even if the throttle is not in the same position, or even the direction is not the same, the cab should adapt to the already running loco, not the other way around. Otherwise, I wonder why they bothered with an encoder. That sort of behavior is to be expected with a potentiometer throttle - if it's turned halfway up then it's half way up, you can't make that a new zero point. This is the way the Zephyr console and the UT4 throttles work. But with an encoder - the throttle can read the loco information from the command station and simply go from there. This is how my DT400 works.
I'm guessing we're just a little crossed up here. I really think you can go back to any running loco and it's not going to change speed or direction until you push a button or adjust the throttle wheel. Seems silly to me if this is not the case. Anyone with a full NCE PowerHouse system want to comment on how that system works in a case like this? Specific steps would be to select a loco and start it up. Then do whatever it takes to get that loco out of the recall stack, but still running. Select a differnet loco. Run it at a different speed, and then stop it. Now reselect the original first loco that is running. Does it stop, or keep going?

--Randy

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright

This is perhaps the most useful thread I have seen on DCC in a long time. It points out the little quirks and gotchas of some of the systems that you would have to buy the system to find out on your own. Most have work-arounds, some can be lived with, and there's always one or two that are real annoyances. The real annoyances have become my differentiators in determining which system to invest in. Which quirks are real annoyances is an individual matter, so finding out about as many quirks as possible in advance is really helpful. Keep the great posts coming in.

thanks to those who are going before me!
Fred W

Fred,

You are sooooooooo right! Even though I don't have an NCE system, nor am I planning to get one, I find it very interesting to read the comments here. Some of the "quirks" are things that I would not have thought of on my own, nor are they things that are easily found in existing literature. This is a fantastic thread filled with observations and factually based opinions. A joy to read!

[tstage]

Barry,

As I understand it, if you use the PowerCab as a Power Pro throttle on the PH Power Pro system, the PowerCab throttle will allow you do what you have suggested. However, some features of the PowerCab are only accessible when using it as an additional throttle with the Power Pro system.

Tom

[draftingplans]

Tom,
The recall button only holds 2 trains so if you try to stack a 3rd train it will forget the 1st one. (Copied from your earlier post).
I have the Powerhouse Pro Radio and I can tell my system how many loco's can be on my recall list from 2-6 loco's. (Default from factory is 2) I am wondering if that is an option with the Power Cab?
I have ran 6 loco's on my layout using this recall feature. Great feature by the way.
Barry

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry Boyd

I understand the the main throttle has to remain plugged in the left side of the power panel. My question is if you are running a loco using the main throttle, how do you transfer control to the second cab to run the loco farther down the layout when the main throttle will not reach far enough?

Larry,

I trust I'm understanding your question clearly. The remedy would be to use the additional throttle to run that particular locomotive the whole time. You can still use the PowerCab to run one or two locomotive(s), and the additional throttle to run a second or third.

Tom

[fwright]

This is perhaps the most useful thread I have seen on DCC in a long time. It points out the little quirks and gotchas of some of the systems that you would have to buy the system to find out on your own. Most have work-arounds, some can be lived with, and there's always one or two that are real annoyances. The real annoyances have become my differentiators in determining which system to invest in. Which quirks are real annoyances is an individual matter, so finding out about as many quirks as possible in advance is really helpful. Keep the great posts coming in.

thanks to those who are going before me!
Fred W

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Ouch! Tell me that's not true! The PowerCab and NCE ProCab use an encoder to control speed, not a potentiometer. There is no reason why if you have Train 1 running at 50% throttle, and then select Train 2 which was not previously selected that it should take off instantly at 50% speed. It shoudl do exactly NOTHIGN until you move the speed control.
They way you describe it, it works liek the potentiometer control on the Zephyr. Select a new address withotu first settign the speed control to 0 and the new loco will instantly take off (or slowly, if you programmed momentum into the decoder). Yet another reason I prefer encoder throttles and seldom use my Zephyr console now that I have a DT400.
The Zephyr and the UT4 potentiometer throttles have an option that allows the newly selected loco to slowly adjust to the knob setting, rather than all at once. However, an encoder throttle shouldn't have this issue.
Likewise, if you stop one train, and the select one that is already moving - with an encoder throttle it should keep moving at the original speed, not stop just because the previous loco was stopped. It shouldn't matter about a recall stack, at least, that's not the way Digitrax functions. I do this all the time, select a train, start it running, and then release it to run a different one. When I go back to the original, not using the recall option but just keying in the number and selecting it, it does not change speed or direction until I move the knob.

--Randy

Craig can correct me if I'm wrong. What I think Craig is saying, Randy, happens only if you are attempting to run 3 locomotives at the SAME time and not two - i.e. Locomotive #1's speed setting is removed from the stack now that Locomotive #2 & #3 are in motion or called up. Running the two locomotives that are recorded in the stack, you don't have that problem. Is that correct, Craig?

Tom

[Anonymous]

I understand the the main throttle has to remain plugged in the left side of the power panel. My question is if you are running a loco using the main throttle, how do you transfer control to the second cab to run the loco farther down the layout when the main throttle will not reach far enough?

[tstage]

Craig,

Thanks for that tidbit. I was wondering if that was going to be the case.

The recall button limitation is not that big of an issue for me. On my small 4 x 8, running more than 2 trains simultaneously on the SAME throttle is just asking for trouble anyhow.

Tom

[rrinker]

Ouch! Tell me that's not true! The PowerCab and NCE ProCab use an encoder to control speed, not a potentiometer. There is no reason why if you have Train 1 running at 50% throttle, and then select Train 2 which was not previously selected that it should take off instantly at 50% speed. It shoudl do exactly NOTHIGN until you move the speed control.
They way you describe it, it works liek the potentiometer control on the Zephyr. Select a new address withotu first settign the speed control to 0 and the new loco will instantly take off (or slowly, if you programmed momentum into the decoder). Yet another reason I prefer encoder throttles and seldom use my Zephyr console now that I have a DT400.
The Zephyr and the UT4 potentiometer throttles have an option that allows the newly selected loco to slowly adjust to the knob setting, rather than all at once. However, an encoder throttle shouldn't have this issue.
Likewise, if you stop one train, and the select one that is already moving - with an encoder throttle it should keep moving at the original speed, not stop just because the previous loco was stopped. It shouldn't matter about a recall stack, at least, that's not the way Digitrax functions. I do this all the time, select a train, start it running, and then release it to run a different one. When I go back to the original, not using the recall option but just keying in the number and selecting it, it does not change speed or direction until I move the knob.

--Randy

[CraigN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Tom,

Excellent review and I'm glad you seem to be enjoying the PowerCab! The thumb wheel faster you turn the faster it speeds up or slows down is a neat feature which is probably handier than an "emergency stop" button - no searching if there is a problem.

Couple of questions for you. How is the layout of the function buttons? (Bet you're enjoying your BLI Mike much more now!). Is the "have to have the thing plugged in" an inconvenience or one of those things that once you get used to it is not a problem? Are you able to control two (or more) separate trains easily?

Once again - congrats with your new system!!

Dave

Dave,
I have run 3 separate trains at the same time with only one issue. The recall button only holds 2 trains so if you try to stack a 3rd train it will forget the 1st one. So when you again try to control the 1st train with the select loco button, the speed setting from the last one controlled carries over. If both trains are moving at close to the same speed setting, everything is ok. But if you had stopped one and the speed setting from a moving train carries over, when you restart the stopped train it will take right off. Or if you take control of a moving train after controlling one that was stopped, the moving train will stop when you try to adjust the speed.

Now I will assume that most people won't be running 3 separate trains with the same throttle unless their layout is really huge. So this issue is really just an inconvenience IMHO.

Other than that , mine works great ! And when I do get the funds saved up to buy the Power pro system, i can take the Power panel for the Powercab and mount it on my workbench and use the Powercab there when I need to and use the powercab as a procab the rest of the time.

Craig

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry Boyd

Quick Question: If the main cab throttle has to be plugged into the left side of the
RG-12 connector, how do you transfer control to the right side controller when your loco moves down the track and you want to move with it and plug into another RG-12 connector down the layout?

Larry

You don't. The PowerCab must remain plugged in to the left side jack at all times. Pull it out and everything stops - track power goes through that jack.
For second throttle, you plug that in the right side jack. And the connector on the back can be used to chain to additional plug-in panels. That second cab can be removed and plugged in at another location at any time, and the train will continue to run.

--Randy

Which means the PowerCab is essentially a stationary throttle system with a walkaround form factor. When you upgrade to the ProCab system then the PowerCab becomes just another throttle in your ProCab system.

So although the walkaround form factor doesn't help much in the PowerCab arrangement, it is nice that it sets you up for the future when you upgrade.

I wished the EasyDCC starter set and Digitrax Zephyr set had a walkaround form factor. Having the stationary/power pack form factor makes the starter sets less useful when you upgrade to the more advanced walkaround throttle setups.

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry Boyd

Quick Question: If the main cab throttle has to be plugged into the left side of the
RG-12 connector, how do you transfer control to the right side controller when your loco moves down the track and you want to move with it and plug into another RG-12 connector down the layout?

Larry

You don't. The PowerCab must remain plugged in to the left side jack at all times. Pull it out and everything stops - track power goes through that jack.
For second throttle, you plug that in the right side jack. And the connector on the back can be used to chain to additional plug-in panels. That second cab can be removed and plugged in at another location at any time, and the train will continue to run.

--Randy