Chicken Wire Vs. Packing Foam Vs. Blue/Pink Board.

[Susquehanna And Rimouski]

We have modelers of all ages here. Some have "Seen It All", some have accomplished their first layout, some are diligently reading everything they can before they make the first move.

If you have constructed a layout within the past five years, what technique have you used for your scenery? Have you combined types? What are the pros and cons from your observations?

[colvinbackshop]

All of my pike is/or is being constructed with rigid foam, either blue, pink or yellow. I haven't used any other foam (as in the light weight, white stuff) mostly because I have all sort of scrap let from building/insulating projects.
The only exception is an area extending a hill up the backdrop and between the track and the backdrop, where I used a, left over portion, of a can of the expanding foam "Great Stuff". This did work pretty well...But the foam really does what it says it does and expands...a lot...at times out of control. I'm still cutting and shaping that monster in order to get the train around the corner. I don't know that I would try that again, even though I have at least one other area that could benefit from that sort of hill. The key might be to use very little at a time and build it up.

[canazar]

Mine is 100% foam as well. I got tthe white stuff in sheets form a local construction supplier. The bench work is 2" thick foam and all the mounatins are carved from it. I found the biggest thing I love about it, is all of my track, trees, etc, can just be pinned in. The trees is great since you can move them or stick them anywhere you want.

Well, there i smy nutshell.

[Anonymous]

I use extruded foam (i.e. not the white stuff) for my "ground" level and for small hills. Most of my mountains/hills are far too tall to use foam, and generally have hidden track inside, which also tends to preclude foam.... So I stick to old-style hardshell over screen and/or cardboard strip mesh for those.

[jecorbett]

I have tried foam but have gone back to the old fashioned methods. I just think there is too much waste when using foam in a wedding cake style and that stuff ain't cheap to begin with. I am going to use foam for some lift out access hatches. I've used aluminum window screen in the past which works like chicken wire. I'm not sure they make that anymore since all the screen material I've seen at the big box stores is synthetic which is probably not stiff enough for a scenery base. I'm now in the process of using cardboard webbing as a support.

[Susquehanna And Rimouski]

So, in the 21st century, so far, FOAM is the way to go for most.

I have used expanding foam as COLVINBACKSHOP has, with great results. JE CORBETT, I opted to make a raised frame of wood, covered with duct tape, in turn covered with Mountains In Minutes, which gave me a strong shell, with natural coutours which did not require a lot of post-shaping. Once the form was try, I was able to remove the support forms for use in other mountains, leaving the highest support as a seam between the mountain and the backdrop.

For those of you using foamboard, what are your sculpting tools of choice? A file, or a Shell Steak Knife??[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Susquehanna And Rimouski
For those of you using foamboard, what are your sculpting tools of choice? A file, or a Shell Steak Knife??[:D]

Box cutter. The kind with a long blade that has little "breakoff" sections which can be extended out so it's about 3" long.

[loathar]

I've used foam on a couple of mountains but I still prefer screen over a wood or cardboard frame covered with plaster.(just not a foam fan.)

[Anonymous]

I'm using O C pink 1" on 99% of my layout. I made a small tunnel on my first layout using 1/2" foam cut in the genral outline of gently rolling hills and then covered it with plaster cloth and hydrocal. Worked great and weighed next to nothing, plus all I used to anchor it with was toothpicks and Elmers* glue !!

BTW I use a "hot knife" and utility knife to cut the foam.

[MisterBeasley]

I'm using the leftover scraps from my base foam to raise elevations. I went with a modified cookie-cutter for a lot of the base, so I didn't have to buy "extra" sheets just for the mountains. I am using Gypsolite as a skim-coat on my scenary, which looks very good.

My rock faces are all Hydrocal castings.

[selector]

Used the extruded foam, box cutters, then a long-handled wire brush (fast!), and finally a sanding block. The brush will leave quite a mess, but it makes laughingly short work of your coarse shaping after the even coarser cutting. You need only vacuum up the mess, and it goes very quickly, in my experience. Where I need a customized and finer curve, I may overlay a sheet or two of plaster cloth, or I d.a.m. the area and pour hydrocal and keep re-shaping it as it hardens.

I am currently making a 2' diorama/programming track and used a 3/4" X 6" cedar plank base, added super-layer of 1" foam, and then two thinner stacks of the same foam behind the track bed for foreground sandy berms. Covered them, after the treatement above, with plaster/hydrocal mix dyed with acrylic paint to impart a sandy colour, and am about to sand it to mkae it look good.

So far, so good.

You don't need to cover the foam with anything if you take care to sand it to the desired contours, then paint it and apply ground cover.

[Susquehanna And Rimouski]

Aquadan,

If you used Hydrocal, did you remove the foam from beneath it when it was dry? I thought the idea of using foam in any form is to get away from plaster, hydrocal and gauze.

How many of you are using carved foam shapes as forms?

How many of you go out and purchase specific products for these projects Vs. scrounging whatever's kicking around the house?

S&R.

[cwclark]

foam is the way to go for low hills, plateaus, ect..but for huge mountains cardboard strip skeletons or chicken wire with rock face molds may be more appropriate

[Anonymous]

Does using 2" foam for a base preclude the use of "under the table" switch machines? Is a tortoise switch machine more adaptable to such a thick table?

[orsonroy]

I've built my past two layoouts and dozens of Ntrak modules using 2" pink foam, 1/4" plywood underneath, and minimal bracing. No plaster, no screen wire, very little wood. This sort of layout construction is cheaper, faster, and actually stronger than traditional methods, which I'll never go back to.

Please read my posts on the Atlas forum last week on this topic:
http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25645&SearchTerms=foam

QUOTE:
Does using 2" foam for a base preclude the use of "under the table" switch machines? Is a tortoise switch machine more adaptable to such a thick table?

Well, I prefer large shelf layouts and not adding $20 to the cost of a switch, so I don't use Tortii. But I know a few foam layout fans who do, and they just mount the Tortise to a small piece of 1/8" masonite and glue it to the foam. It works.

[Susquehanna And Rimouski]

There was another post in here earlier today where someone was using PIANO WIRE to reach a Tortise through the foundation. With the right materials, you can probably drill for oil and make a Tortise still work from any distance.

When I have worked with expanding foam I find I must confine that activity to a time of year when I can leave the windows open overnight to ventilate. How about the rest of you?

[olequa]

I do not cover the foam with plaster. Sort of defeats the purpose. I do use lightweight spackling compound for covering seams and for small detail contouring. This stuff is great. It sticks to and literally becomes one with the foam. Its density and resilience is very similar to the foam itself.

george

[Anonymous]

Susquehanna And Rimouski
I left them in place the reason I used this method was because of the mess. I didn't want to have to deal with the mess of cutting and shaving and sanding the foam. I did most of the work during the winter time so working outside was out of the question. This time around I have a place to work where the mess won't be a concern !!

BTW, I hope if you guys are sanding foam for finer detail that you ARE wearing a dust mask. Extruded foam in the lungs is not a good thing !!!!!

[selector]

It might SEEM that putting plaster or sculptamold over foam is defeating the purposes, but you can get a finer curve with plaster, and if you should happen to give the whole thing a good accidental whack, and the plaster shatters, you can duplicate the scene by scraping away the shards and reapplying plaster to the strong foam that will not likely have been damaged below it.

I don't wear a mask, but I do take the foam outdoors and try to keep the moving air behind me. In fact, I rarely sand, but just use the wire brush, and cannot recall every having inhaled any of the little particles.

[colvinbackshop]

I use a large and a small rasp, wire brush, hot wire (Tippie), a number of different knifes (short paring, boning knife, medium (very fine seriated) veggie knife and a long seriated bread knife...and sand paper too. And have a shop vac. running while doing the sculpting and a fan for good ventilation when I use the hot wire tool.
Some of the foam is shaped and cracks filled with a drywall mud, but most is just painted and covered with ground foam, dirt and so on....
Even the Ely Greenstone outcrops are just painted and weathered foam.

[cmrproducts]

I am using the Plaster over Chicken Wire screen, Plaster cloth rolls over chicken wire screen, FOAM and Red Resin paper over chicken wire screen.

Of the 4 none of them are faster!

The plaster strips over chicken wire is much sloppier. The Foam is slow due to having to wait for the glue to dry (both white and projects glue)(and no I don’t use low tem hot glue yet!) and then you have to spend time carving it! So any speed gained in the glue dept. is lost in the carving stage!

The plaster cloth goes quite fast but I still have to put down a chicken wire sub base.

The Red Resin paper is also just about as fast as the plaster cloth but the chicken wire still has to be in first, then the red paper has to be glued down and then painted.

Now all of the above are to the point of putting on the scenery. So the actual time invested is about the same.

As I build the 2300 sq ft layout I am looking all types of base scenery methods trying to find one that is fast and allows easy application of scenery BUT is able to be changed relatively easily as I am always making changes to the layout.

So far none of them gets an “A” grade yet!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[colvinbackshop]

Even though more costly than white or yellow glue, I use PL300 when I'm gluing together my layers of foam. It tacks well and cures pretty fast.
Actually I use it for almost everything...Gluing the foam base to the wood girders, foam to foam, cork to foam and track to the cork. I have been very happy with it...So far!

[jeffshultz]

Not that it seems all that unique, but I'm using pink foam over 3/8" plywood. I just had to "trench out" a couple bits to put in wires for remoted ground throws. I'm sticking the wires iside a couple straws to protect them when I pour the sculptamold over them.