NEED INPUT ON ATHEARN ENGINES

[Anonymous]

OK, let me restate. The LIST PRICE on P2K GP9's is $100.00. If a $100 loco can be had for $30, and often, doesn't that show what kind of markup is out there? I am fortunate, I think, in that the discounted locos I have purchased were all being offered in what I model, the Santa Fe, but I am sure many other roadnames are offered over time as well. All a person has to do is be patient and wait for the right time and offering. Of course, as with most things, many people just have to have the latest and greatest, at whatever the cost. A good example was the Chrysler PT Cruiser. A new body on a Neon, yet people lined up to pay $25-30 grand for an $18,000 vehicle just to get one. Now Chrysler can't get rid of them fast enough. Everything goes "on sale" eventually, the catch is being able to wait for it. The thing that bothers me the most is the difference in price between some of the lower priced offerings and the higher priced ones. Granted, the nore expensive units are more accurate and probably of higher quality, but isn't the increase in price greater than the increase in quality? Maybe not. We all have to decide for ourselves.

[Anonymous]

I just love the old
Athearn F7's. You can't beat the price. I love the way they sound. My HO Eastern RR. owes 9 Athearn F7. They are easily maintance that I leaned from reading Model Railroader. I will not buy the new ogave me the old type with the brass fly wheels and I am happy. email me if you can [e-mail]

[Don Gibson]

Larry: ] he said

QUOTE: " The P2K GP9s were normally $100.00 each. "

... which is not the real world price, is it?

If you want to take exception to my quoted prices, you can. They were advertised in the current MR.

I feel that someone that uses fictitious list prices to make a point - and knowingly doesn't pay them - is being disingenuous.

[BRAKIE]

Don,I suggest you check some of the Atlas prices..The prices range from $94.95-149.95.The new Trainmaster with DCC/Sound is $249.95.http://www.atlasrr.com/ Look under HO products for prices..Of course these are FULL MSRP..Discount prices can vary from shop to shop.The P2Ks can range from FULL MRSP to as low as $25.00 on e bay..Now I fully agree nobody sticks a gun to anybodies head to buy the high price locomotives...Of course like the majority I find the best DISCOUNT price..I simply refuse to pay full MRSP..After all a $94.95 Atlas engine can be had at $64.95(sometimes less) something is not quite right with the FULL MRSP of $94.95 don't you think??? So,as always my suggestion to anybody is to shop around for the better prices...

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by enduringexp

I The P2K GP9s were normally $100.00 each. I would never pay that. They aren't worth that much more (to me). $50.00? Maybe, probably, but not $100.00. I don't believe in this hobby you get what you pay for. At the higher end, you get severely screwed, because those manufacturers know some of you will pay whatever they ask for the better stuff. If tomorrow all Athearn BBs were $25 and the only other manufacturer was Atlas and they started charging $250, would you still buy only Atlas?

ENDURINGEXP: Do you think you might be guilty of overstatement?

The P2000 GP-9 's are selling for $50 -not $100 (P.38 MR) ; and the highest priced regular ATLAS is $95 with DCC installed. There is an ATLAS GOLD @ $185 - with a QSI sound module which runs on DC and DCC. the Same engine without QS! is $100 less.

Lastly, manufacturer's invest money in hopes it will sell. How is it a person can "get severely screwed" when he can make the choice to walk away?

Or does someone put a gun to your head? ??

[Anonymous]

I have mostly the Athearn BB units. Sure they maybe a little noisy at first. I think they look good & opperate good enough for me. Sure maybe later I'll buy some more expensive units that run like a cadillac, But when you can buy 2 for the price of 1 & have a little cash left over for some extras. It counts for those that have to scrape the bottom of a barrel to come up with the funds. " & well said enduringexp "

[Anonymous]

I am fairly new, and I have 1 Athearn BB F7A that I got as a gift (only cost $19.99) and it seems very worthwhile FOR THE MONEY. I also have 3 brand new, in the box P2K GP9s that cost me $30.00 each. These P2Ks are very nice and well worth the extra $10 each over the price of the Athearn. What I have a hard time understanding is why a loco that is a little better detailed or a little better powered is SOOOOOOOOO much more money? The P2K GP9s were normally $100.00 each. I would never pay that. They aren't worth that much more (to me). $50.00? Maybe, probably, but not $100.00. I don't believe in this hobby you get what you pay for. At the higher end, you get severely screwed, because those manufacturers know some of you will pay whatever they ask for the better stuff. If tomorrow all Athearn BBs were $25 and the only other manufacturer was Atlas and they started charging $250, would you still buy only Atlas? I know some of you would, maybe many of you. Not me, ever. It doesn't matter how much money I have or what I can afford, some things just aren't worth the money. Period. I am by no means cheap, but I place a value on everything I buy.

[Anonymous]

I have many Athearn Locos, Blue Box, Genesis and RTR, and I like them all, I also have many Atlas, Kato, and Botchman Locomotives, plus a slew of P2K Locos, All of them have their good points, but none are perfect out of the box, There is allways something that needs to be added, or changed a little to get the most accurate model, or one of my pet peeves is an underframe that is a generic color, and has to be painted to match the prevalent color of the Locomotive, That said, If I could afford brass, I would buy it, I have several OMI Locomotives, and they are a whole different ball of wax, superior to any and all plastic offerings, both in running ability, as well as superior detailing, but I for one will buy whatever it takes to fulfill my modeling needs and desires, whether it is plastic or brass, so we do not need to limit ourselves with only a few choices in our models, of course, monetary factors allways have to be considered, In summation, I like whatever it take to fulfill my needs, It might be an Athearn blue box, or it may be the latest offering in brass from OMI, This is a fun hobby, so I recommend broadening our scope to include anything that is offered, Just my 2 cents worth, Happy fourth to all.


Mac

[Anonymous]

For the money, there isn't much that can compete with Athearn. Walthers train line are generally a bit more expensive (though the GP9 and FA are about the same prices). Their newer SD40-2s and SD40T-2s (with one-piece driveshafts) are excellent - the equal of Proto 1K locos if not better (my SD40T-2 can creep slower than my Proto 1K Erie-built...)

The only cheaper locos worth looking at (in my opinion) are the latest Bachmann GP40/GP50s and FTs - these have improved massively from the old trainset locos - the latest 8-wheel drive examples have a diecast frame and a hefty can motor which looks almost identical to the drive system on the Walthers Dash 8-40B - only thing missing is flywheels, but they can creep at very low speeds straight from the box. To the best of my knowledge, they offer the only reasonably-priced high-nose GP50 - I have one of these in Norfolk Southern livery on which I've painted the handrails and drilled out the air horns - now looks very nice and runs well too. They've abandoned the truck-mounted couplers and fitted proper pilots with body-mounted couplers as well, which makes superdetailing a worthwhile exercise.

[Anonymous]

My whole fleet of 20+ engines are all athearn blue boxes. With a college budget and a liking for a large layout it's all I can afford. They are a great deal and run reliabibly. THe only problem is getting those decoders in the engine.
Andrew

[Anonymous]

i only buy Genesis and RTR now

[Anonymous]

For an inexpensive train engine, if the lousy poor connection rod is removed and hard wired its ok.

[Anonymous]

I have quite a number of Athearns but I also buy protos's. The price isn't that much more and quality is considerably better in the running and detail dept. but I do draw the line at any diesel locomotive over about $75-$80 bucks. In the era I model, 30's to the late 50's, I really don't have to worry about super diesels that cost a $100 - $150 bucks even in the Athearn line. Long live the good old Athearn.

[Don Gibson]

There is nothing wrong by swearing by an old faithful that has given good service.
Lets be fair:

Athearn B/B 's was a good design indifferenty carried out, but still good value
- if one didn't care about prototypical accuracy, or speed.
- jack rabbit starts and stops.
- hi amperage motors -
- poor electrical contacts
- 12 volt bulb in the cab
- paint jobs on products the railroad never had.

If someone DID care, does that make them "Elitists"?
If SO, what name would be proper for people that DIDN'T?

[Anonymous]

If I am wanting to save money and buy an all around good engine I will buy Athearn,always have always will. I do own two Kato's because I bought them for the same price as a Genisis. Yes you can detail them to the point where in a picture you can't tell the real thing from a model. I like my old ones though the best becase they can out pull the Kato's and the new Genisis hands down!! They may not look great but they pull great and when your rounding a corner with a train thats 60 cars long and its being pulled by one Engine, thats saying something

[Anonymous]

The things I miss that made Athearn great was you could by an inexpensive dummy for adding dcc sound modules and speakers. Also, you could mess up working on a shell and for a few bucks get another shell. Where are the available dummies (not talking about FB units) and replacement shells these days? For instance, buying a Santa Fe diesel and replacing the shell with an another road name.

[Anonymous]

I think BRAKIE hit the nail right on the head, this is a hobby to be enjoyed by all and I can think of nothing that will ruin it quicker for vets and newcommers, than an over zealos nitpicken rivet counter. I used to build model ships several years ago and watched that hobby go right in the dumper due to nitpickers. No fun at all. So have fun with p2k or kato or athearn equipment. It just doesn't matter. What ever floats your boat, thats what it's all about,,,FUN FUN,FUN.

[rambo1]

jeremy. athearn engins are great for your money you can paint them and detail them like the more expensive ones. i can afford the more expensive now bfore i couldnot. RAMBO CANADA

[Anonymous]

Noise is often caused by burrs or flash on gears. I can make the engine silent by carefully cleaning all flash off the drive parts. I have laped gears with tooth paste on loud hummers. I really enjoy customizing the Athern shells. The more I put into any model, the more I like it! I guess I enjoy taking super details to our club. It is still important for locomotives to pull the cars.
Lindsay

[Anonymous]

Athearn locomotives are some of the best on the market.I own Kato,Atlas,P2K and some Bachmann.I get as much enjoyment form my Athearn blue boxes as I do any of the others.I can also detail it myself the way I want it.I also prefer those metal handrails as they will stand up to punishment.I would recommend Athearn blue box to anyone.I also love those Atlas and Kato lokies but will admit they are pricey.But in thier end of the market they are the best.Ill agree with Brakie,trying to compare those 3 in the same category is impossible.Dan

[BRAKIE]

Rob,I was a elitist and a nit picker of the worst type..What open my eyes was I found I was like a dog chasing its tail..I found for me I was modeling for what others thought and no longer modeling for my enjoyment..Then there was those elitist wanna bes that just played the roll..Then there was the minor faults such as this engine /car comes within itches of the prototype drawings..Then I started to measure the cars,some 40 footers worked out at 39' 7" or 40' 4" same for many other of the quality cars and engines..So I decided to return to the hobby as I did before I went "crazy"(if you wiil)..I now model good enough/close enough..Of course you can look at my C&O units and can truthfully say they look like a C&O unit..That is the GP7/9s have bells mounted on the short hood and the 5 chime air horn is to be seen..My Other geeps such as the GP30/38/40/40-2 have the correct horns and side mounted bell on the long hood...You need not look for speed cables or other unnoticeable details you won't find them like before...

Another thing that caught my eye when I worked on the C&O under the Chessie banner and later the CSX banner was no two units was alike!!! The C&O had changed a lot of the minor details around or removed them!!! Then there was the cracked door glass,windshields,dented fuel tanks and in some cases bent steps and hand rails..So I gave up on being a prototype charlie and a elitist...

But its your hobby enjoy the hobby in the way that pleases you..Oh yeah,watch out for those elitist wanna bes..You see they love to talk the talk but don't walk the walk and usually these are the very first to find fault with your models or a new product..

[wp8thsub]

Then there is the other group called the elitists and the elitists wanna bes....The real question is do they model what they preach or just playing the role?

I've been called an elitist before so maybe I'll address this one. With the exception of a few new arrivals that haven't hit the "detail and paint shop" yet, all of my locos are detailed and painted to match specific prototypes. I try to start with the model that gives me the most realistic finished product for the least expenditure of effort. Since I prefer quality over quantity, I find myself using Atlas, Kato, P2K and the like if they offer the same loco Athearn does. If Athearn is the only supplier, I use it but upgrade it mechanically. I do have several models with shells from other sources but with the guts out of Kato units.

I can pick up an Athearn mechanism cheaper than a Kato, but by the time I've upgraded the Athearn to equal Kato performance, I've invested as much money and a lot more time. Athearn's blue box mechanisms often have ill-fitting parts and are built to comparitively sloppy tolerances. I've rebuilt enough of them I know how to fine tune them for optimal performance, but if I don't have to expend the effort I won't. I haven't purchased one in several years, but hear they run better than they used to out of the box.

I host monthly operating for 10-15 fellow hobbyists. In that environment, performance and reliability count, and the operators notice which units run better than others. All of the local and yard power, which require smooth low speed capability, are Kato, Atlas and P2K while the reworked Athearns are restricted to the through freight pool.

My goal isn't conspicuous consumption (especially with all the kitbashing, repainting and weathering that attempts to make all these models look right together while hiding their origins), or to pass judgment on anyone's approach to the hobby, but to please myself and show my operators a good time.

Rob Spangler
WP 8th Sub
Layton, UT

[BNSFNUT]

I have locomotives most manufacters and find Athearn locomotives to be very good.
I had one old F-7 that ran for 18+ years and may still be running on some layout (I sold it). I have Atlas, Kato, and Bachmann and like them. I do not think that I gained that much in quality with Atlas or Kato to really justify the cost but they were the only way I was going to get the type I needed.

Clear Blocks
Jerry

[CP5415]

I have 32 locomotives, 33 if you include a P1 RDC.
26 of them are Athearn Blue Box.
You can't beat them in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Most of my fleet consist of Life Like 1k and 2k locos, but i still have some of my early Athearns and i can tell you from experiance, these thing are like timex, they take a licken and just keep on ticken. I also have a few Atlas, both old and new, but you can't beat an Athearn for ease of maint. They wear out, just buy $10-$15 in parts, install them and youv'e got a brand new loco. LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY ATHEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!!YA

[Anonymous]

Hey there Professor Bailey.

That's because you learned it all. For those less unfortunate take
a sabbatical, author a book " MRR for Dummies" and come on back
and let us piggy back off your experience-knowledge & wisdom. and push up our
GPA .

[Anonymous]

Athearn's run great, for the money. They're geared too fast, and not as smooth as a P2K, Atlas or Kato unit, but they're certainly acceptable and very reliable, unlike most of the other stuff available at that $50CDN price point, which is mostly unmigitated crap.

For starters, I'd recomend a good MRC Powerpack and an Atlas Classic or Proto 1000 Loco, rather than DCC & a top-end loco, which is still admitedly $200-250CDN, but then you've got a little more reliability and looks than the Athearn. DCC is overkill for starters, as are Kato or Atlas Master Loco's.

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: remember you only get what u pay for.

True to a point, but there's still a place for Athearn's product, especially starting out.

I notice a tendency online to tell beginners to start out with a high grade locomotive and command control to run one train on a 4x8 layout. Some might do that, but my guess is that many decide this is a discussion of a rich man's sport, and back off from the board and/or the hobby. I know I certainly would have done so if you told me in my youth that I should go spend $CAD 450 for one loco and a control system, before I buy track or cars. That's half my total annual budget.

Maybe we should temper the "you get what you pay for" with "don't buy more than you need". I'd love to own a Porsche, but my Saturn does the job just as well, in fact better.

[bruce22]

remember you only get what u pay for.