Wrecking Cranes Question

[fwdguy]

I was curious how these operate. Do the run on there own or need to be pulled by a locomotive.

I see that Athearn has one, the 200 Ton Crane and I have an old AHM one that is similar. It was a Santa Fe but I redid it to BN. This is HO scale by the way.

It says it is an Orton Crane. Not sure what that means.

I have it being pulled by my BN SD9 with a boom car and gondola and flat car for a MofW train.

Not sure if the BN does this also like this or if the crane runs without a locomotive.

What you all think about this?

Mark

[red p]

they run on their own power. You will even see some that have a locomotive truck underneath them

[egmurphy]

Large wreck carnes are normally pulled by locomotives. Their motors are for the crane boom/cables only.

There were some small yard cranes that ran under their own power.


Edit: After reading ftwNSengineer's post, makes me think that either we may be thinking of different cranes, or maybe there are more self-propelled ones these days. Most of the "Big hooks" that I've ever seen photos of were not self propelled, but I sure haven't seen them all.

Here's a link to a shot of an Orton crane:
http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~efbrazil/ferroaco_help.html

Here's a short write up on wreck trains:
http://www.readingrailroad.org/roster/roster_wreck_90901.html

Regards

Ed

[Tracklayer]

Not that it really answers your question, but I have a Santa Fe crane and tool car that has to be pulled by a loco. Most of the time it just sits on the sidetrack looking as if it's being used by a MOW crew to replace old ties.

Tracklayer

[Budliner]

there you have it
your answer is
yes and no



K

[ProtoWeathering]

The small ones that are self powered are called Burro's and they still use them. The larger cranes needed to be pulled like egmurphy said.

Here's a nice little article about these cranes on the Santa Fe.
http://atsf.railfan.net/work/burro.html

[fwdguy]

Mine usually sits in my yard and comes out on occassion for track repairs.

I thought the larger ones like modeled by Athearn or AHM were pulled by locomotives and the power it had on its own was for lifting things.

[GAPPLEG]

Actually the one by Athearn is a steam powered model, early type, had to be pulled steam boiler ran the crane. More modern ones are diesel but still are usually pulled, Most railroads now use off road heavy lifters mounted on trucks. Just thought I'd add to the confusion.[:o)]

[nbrodar]

Most wreck cranes were pulled by locomotives. Don't forget, most Operating Rules require the crane boom to face the rear of the train.

Today there are no wreck cranes, as outside companies like Hulcher or Terra do most of the rerailling. These guys use a variaty of off track heavy equipment (mostly mounted on Catapiller dozer bodies). And trust me it's amazing to watch.

The smaller, self propelled Burro cranes are primarily used by maintance of way forces. MofW forces also like to use Hi-Rail mounted cranes.

Nick

[jeffers_mz]

Good informaton of how the cranes are used. Is the boom normally fixed to the boom tender and allowed to to otherwise pivot freely during transport, or is it locked at the spindle and allowed to swing wide on curves? On my layout, things would go smoother if the boom could pivot with the sway of the boom tender, but it'll take some tweaking to get the sticky turntable on this model to agree with simple math.

Also, what kinds of different rigging did they use with the boom cars? Chains, chainfalls, wire rope spreaders, wire rope chokers, nylon staps, cotton ropes, string, baling wire, is there info online regarding actual lifting operations with these units?

Also, my SF Bachman 200 ton derrick seems a little wobbly when boomed out to the side, before trying to lift anything. I see no outriggers on the model, and no provisions to add any. That will cut that 200 ton figure down to nearly nothing over the side, even at max boom angle. How did they get around this when lifting to the side?

[David_Telesha]

OK lets clear this up.

Most, most, had the *ability* to operate under their own power at *SLOW* speeds - i.e. to move around the wreck site.

To get over the road, these would be locomotive hauled as part of a wreck train.

[twcenterprises]

The outriggers are molded on detail on this model. You could shave off this detail and add outriggers if you want, then it should be able to lift close to it's scale 200 tons. Since mine only rolls around the layout, I didn't bother to do this.

Brad

[twcenterprises]

The outriggers are molded on detail on this model. You could shave off this detail and add outriggers if you want, then it should be able to lift close to it's scale 200 tons. Since mine only rolls around the layout, I didn't bother to do this.

Brad

[jeffers_mz]

Okay, there's some molded on detail that might be a pair of outriggers, though they look different than non-railroading equipment. The real question was whether prototypes used stability devices or not, and you answered that.

What's this "scale 200 tons" business?

The box said 200 ton crane, no fine print about "scale" anything, and for $25.99, I expect a crane that will lift the advertised 200 tons.

[waltersrails]

Depends if you buy powered or unpowered. i have an unpowered one southern mow.

[Anonymous]

The boom should stay on the tender - the idea is that the pivoted mounting on the tender allows the boom to stay on through the curves, where it behaves much like a very long car with the boom tender as one "truck" and the crane chassis as the other. Many of these big cranes were steam powered right to the end - well after steam locos had been retired they were still in use. They still had years of life left in them (cranes typically don't run for many hours at a time, compared to a loco) and the time taken to raise steam wasn't really a problem.

[waltersrails]

i agree with that.

[steamage]

some years ago I bought an old Athearn 250 ton crane that was all cast metal (early 50s model), with much better detailing than the newer plastic ones. Its really a heavy model and has to travel at scale speed limits of 25 MPH like its prototype. On the prototype, never ever want to derail or turn over one of these, or you'r really XXXXXXX!

[Eriediamond]

fwdguy, Some wrecking cranes were selfpropelled and some needed a locomotive for power. Size or power (steam or diesel) were irrelative. The cranes that could move on their own power were designated "locomotive" cranes. As far as the name Oreton, the best I can come up with after researching is that would be the manufacturer of the crane and after doing that the only thing I came up with is that Oreton is located in the UK. Ken

[egmurphy]

Another possibility is that the spelling is wrong. Orton (no "e") was a manufacturer of cranes in the US. See following article:

http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/CA503306.html?text=orton+crane


Also, in doing more Google searches in trying to find more info on this subject, I did come across another article that talks about self propelled cranes. So maybe the answer to the original question is "It depends, ... on the crane model you purchased."

See:
http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/Cranes.html

Which reads in part:
A locomotive crane consists of a welded steel carbody, rotating machine house, lattice boom and two sets of trucks designed to run on railroad track. The major components include a diesel engine, generator, traction motors, axles and various mechanical and hydraulic systems and controls. These cranes have a lifting capacity ranging from 25 to 250 tons depending of their size and how they are equipped. A unique feature of locomotive cranes is their ability to perform lifting operations while serving as a locomotive for one or more attached rail cars. They can quickly travel miles to remote job sites under their own power, if required.

Learn something new every day.

Regards

Ed

[jeffers_mz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

The boom should stay on the tender - the idea is that the pivoted mounting on the tender allows the boom to stay on through the curves, where it behaves much like a very long car with the boom tender as one "truck" and the crane chassis as the other. Many of these big cranes were steam powered right to the end - well after steam locos had been retired they were still in use. They still had years of life left in them (cranes typically don't run for many hours at a time, compared to a loco) and the time taken to raise steam wasn't really a problem.

That was what I'd figured, but the turntable is too tight for this to work. The tender tips over sideways instead. The tender could use some extra weight to begin with, but I can see I'm going to have to do something to loosen the turntable so the crane housing can pivot freely.

[Anonymous]

Most large cranes when traveling have some, or most, of the counter weights removed. After arrival at the job site, if a heavy lift has to be made, counter weights are added as needed to match the lift.

[csxns]

Industrial Brownhoist.

[fwdguy]

There is one now on the BNSF South of Tomball Tx repairing a timber bridge. Its been there for a few weeks now and rests on a siding at night and weekends. Its painted Santa Fe blue and white lettering. Its very similar to my Orton AHM crane. Its very cool to see. I believe it does get to the bridge on its own power because I never see a locomotive with it. I saw it also about 6 months ago working on a bridge near I-45 going towards downtown Houston, it was there for quite awhile also. I guess the BNSF is repairing bridges around the Houston area. Anyone else see this crane by chance in the Houston area?

Mark