RAILS: TO GLEAM, OR NOT TO GLEAM?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, howmus; I seemed to have overlooked your inquiry.
Better to use Blue Magic; SPARINGLY! to keep from depositing onto the rail sides.
Just buff like mad!

[AntonioFP45]

This is a really interesting topic.

Semafore, keep us posted over the long term. Forward your idea to the "heavy hitter" guys at MRR like Andy Sperandeo and Bergie. They may be willing to experiment as well.  

Don't be discouraged by negative criticisms. Years back DCC, also received an enormous load of criticism. Made those pioneers work even harder!

Peace and High Greens

[warhammerdriver]

Definitely planning on this procedure once I get my track laid and ballasted.

Great idea during the construction phase of a layout. I wouldn't want to go back and do this to a fully scenicked one.

[Anonymous]

other than the fact that the track stays clean why would you want your rails to be shiny? - PLUS there is a 99% chance that your loco's will have decreased traction.

[cmrproducts]

Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails.Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails. Everyone just ASSumes this but no one has shown any hard evidence that I have seen!

I run an engine power pull contest at our NMRA MCR Div 11 Jamboree (Apr 8, 2006) each year and we have the engines pull against a digital scale.

I have found that the old Athearn with the sintered wheels will usually out pull any engine given their weights being equal.

We have never actually measured the difference between polished rails and non treated rails, but before the pulling contest starts I usually place a couple of different engines on the test track and make them slip their wheels so that they poli***he rails a bit, thus eliminating any dirty track to give the first few engines any Tractive advantage.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

yes, real tracks are shiny, BUT not anymore so than my Atlas track came from the factory. I think they're plenty shiny.

[Anonymous]

Well, for the sceptics out there, here is some news on the GLEAM process.

First, this all started in November, '05, whilst reconditioning a friend's guitar.
When it came time to work on the frets, I was pondering a way to make them smoother so it would be easier to bend the strings for certain notes.
I used a small block of wood and some 600-grit w/s paper.; Not bad, but I wanted MORE SMOOTH.
Brandishing a small pair of crome-plated steel scissors, I BURNISHED the frets and the finish was amazing!! Noticing a section of HO N/S nearby, the thought occured to me: Try the RAILS!!![:D][8D][:0][^]
That's the true root of all this. (And the strings bend Twice as far for the same effort!)
Being a low-voltage contractor for 20 years, and HO-ing since I was 11 yrs, I know VERY WELL of the daunting task of 45 minutes of cleaning for evry 15 minutes of operation. Scouring the rails exposes some clean metal between valleys of grit and grime.
More so, the black stuff is CABON FLUX RESIDUE caused by the current trying to flow through a moving target.
The more pick-up wheels per loco, the less flux-per-wheel generation.
Metal composition of the rails can determine rate of oxidation within your region's relative humidity. The GLEAM process removes the real-scale imperfections of the extruded rail stock ...ANY GAUGE, ANY METAL......... Leaving a smoother POSITIVE CONTACT SURFACE for your wheels, for both POWER and TRACTION.
The Burnishing creates the mirror finish by sealing the metal pores with the same metal; there is more shine because there is more metal!
I noticed there is also INCREASED DRAG on the radius. Basically I feel these cancel each other, because our trains climb up the helix with no apparent loss of effort. I would like to do some tractive tests soon.
For a perfect example, our N-scale layout was gleamed in November 2005. All I do is a periodic dry wipe with a paper towel, THAT"S ALL! 4 months now of NO ABRASIVES or track cleaning fluids, polish, B-boy, NOTHIN'!!!!!!!!!
Poor William is out of a job! Plus ALL THE TRACK gleams like I just did them, including the sidings and spurs!
And it is apparently working on our huge multi-level HO Display under construction. They nail the rail, I FURNI***HE BURNISH!
Now, my ratio of clean-to-operate is like 5 minutes cleaning to 10 hours of operation. I wipe a little more right now only because the full-scale dust from construction does settle on the rails, and causes erratic operation.
Do not fear that this will ruin your rails, because you do this ONLY ONCE!
And please check out my other topics on my profile page !

[beegle55]

I don't polish or "gleam" my rails. I just sand away rough spots and wear on the rails, and I later take a bright boy over my rails, and every once and a while I'll use some rail-zip. Good luck!

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

yes, real tracks are shiny, BUT not anymore so than my Atlas track came from the factory. I think they're plenty shiny.

Believe it or not.....yes they are!  Found this on Railpictures.net

[JohnT14808]

Our club members have had this discussion off and on for the two years that I have been associated with the club.
However, our club house has been closed for the pasted five months, due to a renovation of the historical building that we are in. We finally got back in to the layout room last Thursday and began uncovering the layout.
With all the clean up we are going to have to do, I am going to pu***hat we try this "GLEAM" idea on the layout. We are going to have to clean the entire layout ( initial inspection showed construction material that did get dumped on two small sections of the layout) so we might as well try this to get our track back into tip top shape.
Since we had to remove virtually every structure from the layout, we have open access to all the track, so doing this at the beginning may keep us from cleaning track from now on....( is there hope in this world??)

[Anonymous]

REAL rails have a "shine" on them not because they are burnished (a smooth polishing action) but because they are hammered (planished in effect?). Rolling wheels impart a stream of hammer blows to the rail head - I am told - by my Dad who was a Chartered mechanical Engineer - so I imagine that he would know.

I suspect that the main benefit being gained in all the above is the removal of burrs and pitts which would assist the accumulation of crud (good technical word that). Except when material like fallen leaves or frogs/toads gets between the railhead and the wheel I suspect that the hammering action of wheels knocks most crud components from the rail head. Scale models probably lack the weight to have the same effect. Similarly i would suspect that the amount f lost traction would be too small in a model to measure.

(I've noted elsewhere that on severe curves the hammering effect of wheel on rail will actually force a slim strip of steel off the head of the rail. I had a 3' to4' length of this steel for some years but seem to have lost it... on the rail side it was fairly straight (conforming to the rail) on the outer edge it "wiggled" like the distinct pattern in a Japanes sword.

Don't know how much light this will shed?

I do know that Motorbike parts that are burnished by hand stay clean better than parts that are polished with chrome type polish and a buffing head on a drill or other tool.
I knew a couple who stripped his HD to component parts and buffed them every night before going to sleep... Then they took her bike apart! This is a true story of two immaculate HD's not a rude tale! It took them years.
... and they say that RR modellers are mad!

We used to use a 2"x2" piece of chain mail on a thick calfskin backing to burni***he lever heads of [what you call] armstrong levers until it was banned because the extremely fine steel dust produced wrecked electrical equipment in the underframe. Lebers burnished that way and worked only with a lever cloth GLOWED rather than shone.

[Anonymous]

JohnT14808; Do It! Then, you will have so much free time to model and operate, rail maintenance will become minor and effortless. Forget the wax/polish; I found it NOT NEEDED for HO nickel/silver rails. If the locos and rolling stock wheels are cleaned BEFORE they hit the GLEAMED rails, they will STAY clean. A new museum member showed me a neat tool to maintain rails: paper towel wrapped on a paint stirrer!
Easier to pass over multiple track, through tunnel portals, bridges, shed, etc.
This is for periodic carbon removal, as needed. LATER!

[Medina1128]

I would think that if you glued some cork roadbed to 3" long sections of 1x2; one marked for "polish" one for "buffing", you could polish and buff rather quickly. Use the same thing for the sandpaper. Another tip would be to drill holes lengthwise into the blocks. You could use the holes to insert a length of 1/4"-3/8" rod to make it easier to polish/buff hard to reach areas (i.e. bridges, tunnels, etc.) Just my [2c]

[ngartshore350]

One question guys!

I see you need to apply the polish sparingly, but how do you approach points? Carefully to make sure you don't et any over the guides or is there something that easily removes excess polish?

BTW Thanks for topic, I am going to start this as soon as I find a Stainless Steel Washer!

Regards,

NG

[Anonymous]

You have to do the points, too! ALL track is used to power the locos and lighted rolling stock, and the points in particular MUST be done. try not to press too hard; more passes will do the trick.

[cmrproducts]

As for gluing cork to 1 x 2, while it does give you a good handle to hold on to the cork the metal polish will crud up the cork surface and will end up putting more dirt back onto the track than you would be taking off.

I throw the used cork away once it starts to cake up with the wax/polish on the surface.

I like to have fresh cork as much as possible when polishing the track as you will only want to be doing it once in 3 years, so do it right by using a clean piece of cork is best!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails.Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails. Everyone just ASSumes this but no one has shown any hard evidence that I have seen!

I run an engine power pull contest at our NMRA MCR Div 11 Jamboree (Apr 8, 2006) each year and we have the engines pull against a digital scale.

I have found that the old Athearn with the sintered wheels will usually out pull any engine given their weights being equal.

We have never actually measured the difference between polished rails and non treated rails, but before the pulling contest starts I usually place a couple of different engines on the test track and make them slip their wheels so that they poli***he rails a bit, thus eliminating any dirty track to give the first few engines any Tractive advantage.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

I have been reviewing past posts and found this one to have a note of dissent, particularly in the varied form of the word 'assume'. I did not pick this up earlier, but let me warn others that this person has no quam of directly insulting us with verbal abuse on this forum when he feels his intellect is being threatened. Beware!
I am not trying to demean anyone with my zeal on gleaming, just offering an alternate method others have tried and approved, also. Thank you.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I used the Gleam process last June (6/18/06) and haven't had any problem keeping my track clean. Sometimes dusting it a little if the layout hasn't been used in some time but other than that I haven't had to clean it again. On 6/18/07 it will be a year since I Gleamed my track. This is no fluke. As a control I didn't Gleam a small inner loop. I have to clean this inner loop at least once a week to keep it operational, I Gleamed the main lines and they stay operational no matter how much or how little I run the trains and I've been known to run them for hours on end. If I have any problem, it's usually dust from the air conditioner, which blows right across the tracks. A simple light wipe with a dry cloth takes care of this in just a matter of seconds. This process really works.

[claycts]

I do have a fire suit on. I have been running for about 9 months now and I use a box car with a cleaning pad and a Micro clean II and no gleaming and have zero problems. I have 975 ft of track so the process was never on the table for me.

I am code 83 Atlas HO. If you have the time and the process does sound good then go for it. In my case I will use the cars to do the work.

I also cheat in the fact that the layout room never gets above 74 deg with 35-45% Humidty. The ceiling is sealed and no windows. The A/C unit has a filter on the outlet also.

[Virginian]

Sorry, but I gotta know.  What's a Chartered mechanical engineer?

I know what a licensed Mechanical Engineer, also known as a professional engineer is, because I is.

[cmrproducts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails.Can anyone verify if the engines have less traction from metal polished rails and Gleamed rails. Everyone just ASSumes this but no one has shown any hard evidence that I have seen!


BOB H – Clarion, PA

I have been reviewing past posts and found this one to have a note of dissent, particularly in the varied form of the word 'assume'. I did not pick this up earlier, but let me warn others that this person has no quam of directly insulting us with verbal abuse on this forum when he feels his intellect is being threatened. Beware!
I am not trying to demean anyone with my zeal on gleaming, just offering an alternate method others have tried and approved, also. Thank you.

semafore

I was asking a question about the loss of traction that others have stated.

While I may have accented the word (assumed) no one has presented any real test of the loss of traction with the Gleam process or with just using metal polish.

If I have offended any one, I am sorry!

But the problem is, there still are too many that feel there would be a loss of traction and may not try the Gleam process or metal polish, when the benifits of not having to clean the track frequently, for me anyway, far out way any loss of traction.

BOB H - Clarion, PA 

[claycts]

OK Gleaming folks I came up with any idea. IF the object is to burnish the rails with S/S why not mount an S/S Washer under a car and let it do the work. Two SMALL washers so as not to short anything may just work.

I found a VERY OLD Round house powered Box cab diesel track cleaning engine. Runs on DC only since the motor is form the 1950's. This design could be modified to become the "GLEAM MACHINE" since it has for SMALL pads two on each side.

Have I fallen off the deep end or might this just work. 

 

[Greg H.]

Thanks Bob, the cork road bed works great! Really does the trick. Now if I can find something made of stainless steel to burni***he rails. Anyone have a good suggestion? Is this something I could get at Menards or Home Depot?

 

How about an old spoon from the kitchen, that was bent the wrong way and the wife was going to throw out anyway?

[Tilden]

I run DCC and good clean track is essential.  I gleamed an area of my track and it works very well.  However, it is a lot of work.  On a whim, I cleaned the rest of the rail on the mainline with 91% isopropol alcohol and did a final wipe with a saturated cloth of 2-26 cleaner/lube.  After a few weeks of running without further cleaning, this is also working very well and goes much quicker.

So....whatever works is good.

Tilden

[larak]

BTW: Tool steel works too. I use the (side) edge of an old metal lathe cutting bit to burnish.

Perhaps a discarded wood chisel blade would work too? 

Also, running lots of trains with metal wheels will over time also burnish the rails. The question is do I want to wait five years or do some extra work now and be done with it? I am trying both methods. So far (18 months) the "gleemed" sections seem to stay somewhat cleaner but not by an order of magnitude. I wipe the black stuff off both sections three or four times a year with a soft cloth and alcohol. 

 

[Anonymous]

1.  I've never enjoyed so much time running trains before the 'gleam' method.

2.  I will somehow do a traction test, to present data for those who are curious.

3.  Stainless Steel doesn't leave particles that can rust.

4.  Please, Do a search on 'gleam' to see how it's done, and to see all mixed reviews from those who have tried.

5.  This is a new idea; no one said it was the best idea.

6.   This is not a product; it is a method, free to all modelers and guitarists.(Frets!)

7.   The method contours the rail head to prototype shape. It removes mill marks from extrusion, and other imperfections. It also seals pores with the rail's own metal. More shine=more metal.

8.   Posssibly using metal polish with abrasives knock off some of the edge of the rail head, giving a slight contour, and removes some imperfections. This will increase shine, traction, electrical contact.

9. Still a young subject, more info will develope in time. I look forward to this because we're all helping each other.

10.  No offense taken.

[Greg H.]

My $.02 is that Friction is where we get traction from. A flawless piece of metal that is slick can cause the loss of friction. The theroy is sound about the rails not taking dirt but if you make it to perfect you may lose the friction required for traction.

Not nessasarly.

Consider that a very smooth surface actualy increases the total amount of surface to surface contact - the more perfectly smooth the two surfaces are, the more contact they have with each other, in fact some non-stick cooking surfaces actualy have small groves in them to reduce the total amount of surface area, in contact with the cooking food.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for keeping the thread active with your interest, everyone. This is what a forum is; ideas and comments, not preaching.

Stainless Steel I use is just a 1/2- inch cut washer (HO). Easy to hold because of hole for finger. Also, one side has a 'cut' edge; use smooth edge.

Sandpaper is 400 and 600-grit wet/dry type, used dry.

Block is wooden 3/4" x 3/4" x 1- 1/2 inches long.

It would be nice to hear more feedback from others who have tried, or not tried.

Be good. Be well. Be trained!

 

[Blue Flamer]

Thanks for keeping the thread active with your interest, everyone. This is what a forum is; ideas and comments, not preaching.

Stainless Steel I use is just a 1/2- inch cut washer (HO). Easy to hold because of hole for finger. Also, one side has a 'cut' edge; use smooth edge.

Sandpaper is 400 and 600-grit wet/dry type, used dry.

Block is wooden 3/4" x 3/4" x 1- 1/2 inches long.

It would be nice to hear more feedback from others who have tried, or not tried.

Be good. Be well. Be trained!

 

Time to give this a bump.

Blue Flamer. 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

The GLEAM method works well for me. As for a loss of traction I haven't noticed any. In fact my locos seem to be pulling better than they did before. I accidently left a turnout open and the express went onto the siding at a bit less than half throttle, plowing through a waiting ten unit freight loco and all and barely even slowed down. I'd say it had pretty good traction to do that.