Turnouts--a summary and continuing the converstation.

[SpaceMouse]

Atlas Snap--don't bother

Atlas 100--some say bullet proof but other say that they have moved to low-end, hgh production and are becoming more and more out-of-guage

Atlas 83--a little more delicate--fairly bullet proof and more protoypical than 100.

Peco 100--???

Peco 83--higher quality but look funky. Cost double Atlas.

Walther's/Shinohara (I probably butchaer the spelling) ??? Walther's seems to be out of stock a lot.

EZ track and other snap togethers--forget it.

Handlay--the best looking and best quality but not for everyone. You can get jigs from Fast Tracks of kits from CMA.


So, how close am I?

[willy6]

I used Atlas 100, only problem I had was me, when I ballasted I got ballast critters in the frog and movable track. small wire brush fixed the problem.

[lesterperry]

You forgot Peco 100. That is what I am changing to I am very disapointed in Atlas 100

[SpaceMouse]

Lester,

Why Peco 100? What do you see as the advantages?

[SpaceMouse]

This post is going nowhere.

So what did you choose and why?

[Bill H.]

I use the Fast Tracks templates and M/E 83 rail.

I can control exactly how the turnout will turn out. (pun?) The end result is spectacular. Blades and points can be configured and assembled to the degree that guard rails are really not needed. I use them for appearance more than anything else.

Try doing your own. Sure, the first time won't look so hot. No problem, desolder and do it again. Before long, you'll wonder why anyone uses premade turnouts.

Remember, it's NOT rocket science.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill H.

I use the Fast Tracks templates and M/E 83 rail.

I can control exactly how the turnout will turn out. (pun?) The end result is spectacular. Blades and points can be configured and assembled to the degree that guard rails are really not needed. I use them for appearance more than anything else.

Try doing your own. Sure, the first time won't look so hot. No problem, desolder and do it again. Before long, you'll wonder why anyone uses premade turnouts.

Remember, it's NOT rocket science.

I watched the entire 75 minute video a couple of weeks ago, and I am sold, hook, line, and sinker. I am determined to do this. And an double-slip or two.

[pkeppers]

How about Central Valley turnout kits? A friend of mine has a couple and the jury is still out the last time I talked to him.

Also, I finally got to the point of actually laying track last winter and was going to buy some Walthers #8's until I found that they werent available and that the Walthers switches go in and out of stock daily so you never know when you can get one. I took a look at the Atlas #8 and it really didnt seem too bad. I painted part of the frog to make it look pretty much normal and that made a huge improvement in it's appearance. I installed a couple and although I havent run a whole lot I have done enough running to say that they seem to operate fine as far as I can tell. Doesn anyone else have expereince, good or bad, with the atlas # 8's?

I built my staging yard with code 100 atlas switches. I think I would have used code 83 if I were to do it again since I agree that the tollerances on the 83 stuff are better than the 100, particualrly the wheel drop into the frog on the code 100's. Trains make one heck of a racket in the staging yard cross over and ladder but I have to admit that I cant recall a single derailment that I could blame on the switch. My staging is looped so I never back up so I cant say how that would work but forward they seem to do OK.

[Jetrock]

Peco 100: Robust, doesn't need a switch machine, reliable, but made to match Briti***urnouts, not US ones, so detail freaks will get alarmed. Also, I think most of them have curved frogs. That said, I use 'em and they work fine. I'd rather pay a few bucks extra and not have to do all the under-table switch machine/spring hegira.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Peco 83--higher quality but look funky. Cost double Atlas.

Walther's/Shinohara (I probably butchaer the spelling) ??? Walther's seems to be out of stock a lot.

i don't know where you got the idea that peco 83's look funky , they're almost as good looking as handlaid . but you're right about the price

walthers/shinohara are just below peco for me . it's the rivit where the points pivot that makes them slightly less attractive than the pecos . i think some (but not all ) of the track items walthers shows as out of stock are the old pre-"dcc friendly" versions that probably won't be re-stocked

i originally wanted to go all peco , but at $30 canadian a turnout i may end up with the walthers , or even giving the atlas code 83 a look .

[IRONROOSTER]

I use Shinohara, but then there isn't much choice in S scale code 100. They work pretty well for me.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Peco 100--???

Peco 83--higher quality but look funky. Cost double Atlas.
So, how close am I?

Not very on the PECO. The classic PECO turnouts in HO come in Code 75 and Code 100. These are the ones that curve through the diverging path. These don't look a lot like traditional US turnouts (and not much like British or European turnouts either).

As others have said, these lock to one side or the other without any additional switch machines. Code 100 turnouts come with insulated or powered frogs. Code 75 only with powered frogs.

The new Code 83 looks much more like US track, with the diverging side straight. These come with either powered or insulated frog and look pretty darn good to my eye. Still include the locking points so you can use them without a machine.
http://www.peco-uk.com/products.htm#products

They're all a bit more expensive than some other options, but do seem pretty bulletproof.

Jon

[jeep35]

Spacemouse,
For what its worth, here's what I did. I started out using Atlas 100 and yes they work fine. You might have to tinker around with them and file the points down a bit, but yes they are perfectly acceptable. As I got a little more experience I switched over to code 83 (this was in the days before Atlas made their own code 83). Walthers and Atlas/ROCO was about the only code 83 available. First I used Walthers, mechanically they work well but they have some electrical issues, and yes you can fix them. Personally I don't think I should have to "FIX" a turnout that I paid top dollar for!! So when Atlas started making code 83 at a reasonable price I switched over to them. I have had mixed results with them. I tend to have more electrical "dead spots" then derailment problems. I'm using them on my new layout because that is what I have on hand. I solder feed wire to each and everyone of them so I hope that will take care of the dead spots.

[SpaceMouse]

I just got through watching the Fast Tracks video. Those turnouts look really good and I cannot see them being a problem for any engine. Very nice. I haven't looked at the price of a jig yet. A little nevous I am.

[pkeppers]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

i think some (but not all ) of the track items walthers shows as out of stock are the old pre-"dcc friendly" versions that probably won't be re-stocked

All the old non DCC versions are permanently out of stock but the new ones go in and out all the time. Right now you cant get a #6 code 83 walthers switchand only 1 direction of #8 is available. In 2 years I have not noticed a period of time when both directions of #6 and #8 were available from Walthers. You can usually find someone who has one or maybe two but if you need a number of them or wan tthem at a decent price, less than the list price in Walthers catalog, you end up waiting months. I would have eventually bought 50+ walthers switches if they had "normal" availability but I dont want to buy them all at one time and I'm not waiting 6 months everytime I want to add one so I decided to go with Atlas for now.

[Anonymous]

Walthers / Shinohara Code 83 is available to those that are willing to look around some. 2 months ago I installed a whole bunch of them in my new layout, #4's, #5's, #6's, and #8's in both straight and curved turnouts. Look fine, work fine.

My only problem has been that 15% of them do NOT have the frog isolated, so both rails are shorted together. 30 seconds with a cutoff disk in a Dremel solves the problem.

Mark in Utah

[selector]

Chip, I am nervous too, but excited nervous. I KNOW I can do this...I just know it. So can you. The video is always there, he talks you through it, watch and do. Don't like the fit? de-solder and re-do it. You'll get it, and one night you will find that you already have eight of them stacked up. Perfect ones.

The kit is a couple hundred dollars, give or take. I don't know if it includes any track pieces or circuit board, but I believe it is all inclusive.

[Anonymous]

i bought some life-like turnouts and they are junk- i have 1 Atlas code 100 turnout and that's what i'll replace all the l-l ones with

[SpaceMouse]

I'm not nervous about the turnouts, just the price. They look really good. And I probablly will need 50-100 of those suckers. It's just that we'll be limited to the size jig we get. It's easy to be nervous when you don't know what size etc. your turnouts will be. IT might be a matter of gettig a jig for the lions share as scratch building the special ones.

With the size locos I'll be running, I could get away with all #4's.

[dragenrider]

Tillig-Pilz code 83 elite. Smooth flowing points, mildly flexible and can be bent to fit, power routing, one continuous rail from point to frog. Also, they don't appear overly European in looks. DCC friendly, I believe.

I really am surprised that more nit-picky modelers aren't using them. They beat everyone else in quality and rival Peco for reliability.

For a very large close up picture of the first one I installed on my layout click on: http://www.railimages.com/gallery/randyates/abu?full=1 and http://www.railimages.com/gallery/randyates/abv?full=1 . I had to replace a Shinohara which went bad. I've never had a derailment on these turnouts.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I'm not nervous about the turnouts, just the price. They look really good. And I probablly will need 50-100 of those suckers. It's just that we'll be limited to the size jig we get. It's easy to be nervous when you don't know what size etc. your turnouts will be. IT might be a matter of gettig a jig for the lions share as scratch building the special ones.

With the size locos I'll be running, I could get away with all #4's.

You could also live with #5's, and use them on another scheme when you eventually decide that you have had enough of the current layout. Just a thought.

I will build #5, and maybe a few #6's, although it seems a shame to buy two sets of jigs. Certainly the #4's would not work for me. You are right, though, this is a bit of money. It would help if we could cooperate and re-cycle the jigs amongst a few of us. We could all, you know, 'chip' in.

[TrainFreak409]

Are these all HO switches? What about some N scale ones? All I know about is the EZ Track series, and the turnouts are the worst. They are bad. I am usually quite pleased with Bachmann, but I can't say much for their track.

[Don Gibson]

No matter how many turnout's you buy , you buy them a few at a time. You don't buy 100 turnout's, you 'accumulate' them.

Buy the cheapest - and you can replace them later on. I've replaced a lot of different brand's. The conscensus here seem's to be the best is what's CHEAPEST. I don't think so

My current layout is all Shinohara or Shinohara made Walther's. In so doing, I got rid of derailment's and 'toy-like' frogs.

The only turnout I've found more derailment free, is the BK - formerly Anderson -.No more even 'clickety clack'.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

No matter how may turnout's, you buy the a few at a time. You don't buy 100 turnout's, you 'accumulate' them.

Buy the cheapest - and you can replace them later on.

Certainly you can plan ahead and amortize the expenses, which is what this conversation ia about. Turnouts are the greatest expense on the layout. Guessing at the number needed is part of determining if the Fast Tracks system is worth the time and money to invest.

[SpaceMouse]

Okay I looked at the system cost and it looks like $130 per turnout configuration which inlulded the jig and point tool.

Materials would be about $5 per turnout so if you figure that a Peco cost $20 cost-wise you break even at about $10. After that you save $15 per turnout--an it takes an hour per turnout. If you figure that these are better that Pecos, that $15/hr hobby tie might be worth it.

[jxtrrx]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Okay I looked at the system cost and it looks like $130 per turnout configuration which inlulded the jig and point tool.

Materials would be about $5 per turnout so if you figure that a Peco cost $20 cost-wise you break even at about $10. After that you save $15 per turnout--an it takes an hour per turnout. If you figure that these are better that Pecos, that $15/hr hobby tie might be worth it.

Chip,
Interesting topic.
I didn't quite follow your math there (is there a typo in there or am I just dense?). But if you're looking at cost only, you must also compare Atlas Code 100. You can buy them for under $8 on the internet. That means you have to build over 40 of them to break even. I wonder if you wind up with better turnouts, though, when you build your own?

[Anonymous]

OK, why buy new ones to start with. I have purchase around 50 turnouts at different train shows here and there over about 2 years and the most I can remember paying for one was about $4.00. Sure a couple needed work but all work graet and I save big bucks. Do your gathering of what you need over time guys. Remember it's a hobby not totally a way of life. Don't starve trying to get what you need. Someone is always upgrading or heaven for bid getting out of the hobby. There is always a way to save a bit of money. I love the challenage of finding a deal.

[espee3004]

Switches have been built without jigs for a very long time. Waste a length of rail and see how you do.

Ralph

[BR60103]

Chip: I built my first turnout over 40 years ago, using a nailfile on code 100 brass rail. I then built Atlas and Tru-scale kits, and then a code 70 turnout (I had a proper mini-file by then.) No jigs.
I went for Peco when I started working. (Coarse code 100 at that time). I've only built 2 turnouts since.
My latest trackwork is Peco code 75. I'm modelling British, but I put up with the excessively American looking ties. My trains seem to run more smoothly through the code 75 than the code 100 (One dealer said "Peco finally got it right.")
I've seen some Atlas lately, and they have an absolutely grotesque, oversized frog.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: "Turnouts are the greatest expense on the layout"

No.

One's Engine's are. - except for maybe Lil' Guy. When your first $200 engine hit's the floor, you'll re-evalulate.