Northlandz is a joke.

[ARTHILL]

I would love to visit. I also like House on the Rock and his collections. I don't see Northlandz as a joke but as one person's attempt at large. I love the bridges. I love the tongue in cheek. We all play with trains, and he is big and expensive. Three story mountains impress me. As a rich man's toys go, it is a good one. We went to see the model of "The Chinees warriers" and the Forbidden City near Houston. It was impressive if you took it for what it is. I do think I make better trees than he does.

[AggroJones]

For a layout that large and dramatic looking, I'm shocked they run such crappy trains on it. One would expect to see some well weathered, detailed stuff rolling over those spectacular bridges. Nope. Its like tyco, mantua, and other crap.

If they have so much cash, why not custom weather some BLI or Atlas locos and operate them? I'd be much more pleasant to watch and enhance the overall experience.

[2c]

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones
If they have so much cash, why not custom weather some BLI or Atlas locos and operate them? I'd be much more pleasant to watch and enhance the overall experience.

Probably because, if the trains were weathered, the public would comment, "Geez, why doesn't he clean those trains once in a while!" The old Lionel layouts never ran weathered engines or rolling stock, so the public would be highly unlikely to even understand what it represented on a model railroad, were it present. You can't view something like Northlandz and evaluated it from a model railroader's perspective.

As to those "crappy" Mantua engines running on the layout, they have all been rebuilt and remotored for thousands of hours of trouble-free operation. They are much heavier than any BLI, most Atlas, or similar "modern" locomotives, much more sure footed on the tracks and much less likely to derail. There's a lot to be said for "old" technology if you want to keep things running! I think that quite a few Mantua's are also used on the spectacular City Bank Christmas layout in NYC, for the same reasion.

CNJ831

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

I would love to visit. I also like House on the Rock and his collections. I don't see Northlandz as a joke but as one person's attempt at large. I love the bridges. I love the tongue in cheek. We all play with trains, and he is big and expensive. Three story mountains impress me. As a rich man's toys go, it is a good one. We went to see the model of "The Chinees warriers" and the Forbidden City near Houston. It was impressive if you took it for what it is. I do think I make better trees than he does.

Art, funny you should mention "House on the Rock", because all the time I spent reading and responding to this topic, I was thinking of that place. It is one of the strangest collections of stuff I have ever seen. Many times while wandering through it's maze of galleries, I got some pretty creepy vibes. Mondo Bizzaro!!! and on a grand scale.

[ereimer]

i haven't been , if i ever find myself in NJ with a couple of hours to kill i'd probably go for a look . seems a shame to me though that someone would spend the kind of money this must have cost , and continues to cost for maintainance and replacement parts and not build an operating model railroad . as long as it works as a tourist attraction i guess it's doing it's job , and we can't really judge it as a model railroad since it was never meant to be one

[Anonymous]

As a wannabe 'serious' modeler I'm not impressed with Northlanz, but if my family were driving thru NJ and my 7yr-old daughter knew it was nearby, she'd be BEGGING to visit the place! Her young mind hasn't had enough time to become jaded and critical, unlike her ol' man...[B)]

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

...and I may go again in the future.
Bob K.

Don't waste your time, Bob. I went six or seven years ago and, allowing it the parody of life it really is, thoroughly enjoyed it. Then I went again last year and was every bit a s thoroughly disappointed. The longest trains are three cars, and quite a few of the loops don't even run trains anymore. Scenery isa cracked and broken in quite a few places. Debris has fallen to all the low spots, and no one even bothers to clean it up.

Until they close down for awhile to refurb everything, it isn't worth a fraction of what they charge.

[TrainFreak409]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stuckarmchairing

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409
Trains are trains are trains, so what if it is not prototypical? They are always fun to watch. And I think the large environment makes it even more impressive.

Well lets look at it this way. Do real trains continually do loops and go nowhere and nowhere? When you go down to the tracks to railfan your not watching trains do loops. Your watching a part of the national transportation system, stuff going here and there. Thats what makes it intresting, thats what makes railfanning so fun. It adds to the mystery of it all, wheres this boxcar going? Where is that block of Centerflows headed?

It's not so much the fact that its a giant loop, its the fact that the scenery is so redicious. Its over the top and far fetched. You cant relate it to the real world.

You want big and impressive and realistc? Take a look at the MR story or Allen Keller video on Ken Mccorrys PC/Conrail layout. Or the MSI layout, the MSI is a giant roundie round but it represents scenes from the real world and thats what holds MSI over Northlandz. Even John Allen, who modeled a world that teetered on surreal and real, sometimes blending that line so much you couldn't tell, realisticaly operated and represented the real world and pulled off an effect that tricked you into believing it was real. Northlandz couldn't even trick you to believe that.

Can we actually compare a large display layout to real trains though? Sure, when we are railfanning, part of the fun is wondering where a certain boxcar has been or where it will go. I'll agree with you there. But you can't do the same with a model railroad, especially displays like Northlandz. Displays are built for easy maintenace and to entertain passerbys. In this case though, anyone who wants to pay to get in. And it wasn't built specifically for train enthusiasts, and was built almost by one man. It's a fictional display layout, built for continuous running, it doesn't need to be prototypical.

My personal two cents...When I go railfanning, I go to watch trains. I see many at times, and sometimes I don't do so well. When I go to display layouts, I go to watch trains, just in a smaller size, and can stand there for as long as I want, just watching them go around. No, when I go railfanning, I don't go to watch a loop, but when I go to a display layout, I do.

[loathar]

I can appreciate it for the shear mass of material and time that went into it.
Aggro-Can you imagine the cost if his locos where all Kato, Atlas or Spec. steamers or if his rolling stock was all high quality kits. If someone donated all that stuff to me, I'd sure make use of it. I know it's not very realistic or detailed, but I sure wish I could build bridges like that.
Remember- The guys running a railroad AND a business at the same time.(wish I could make money off my trains)

[CP5415]

Is it?
I agree with Elliot that it would promote the hobby.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of whimsy, especially on the scale that it is built.
Could any of us build anything like that & as quickly?
If i remember correctly that the bridges on the layout were all made from scratch.
I went looking for the issue of MR it is in. I do have it & it's probably under the benchwork 3 flights of stairs above me.
Norhlandz may be a joke, BUT they do advertise in MR & we shouldn't be slamming an advertising customer of Kalmbach.

Gordon

[JohnT14808]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3rdRail

Obviously no one took the time to watch the Northlandz segment of the free DVD.

I watched the segment on the Dream,Plan,Build DVD and was intrigued by the sheer size of the place. 3 stories tall??!? Geeze, if something derails at the top of the mountain, what's an operator to do....Get out their hiking boots?

In any event, if I am ever in NJ, I will have to stop and see it, just so I can say " I've been there!" One man's dream is another's piece of whimsy. Remember...it's HIS layout.

[Anonymous]

I have never been to Northland. I have seen the MR sample DVD with the segment on Northland. I am impressed with the shear size of it and it is quit an accomplishment for one family.
It is sad to read so many negitive comments on this forum about one person's dream model railroad. This bashing of someone's work can only be bad for our hobby. There is room for everyones ideas and dreams in our hobby. At the very least we should be kind enough to only post constructive suggestions!!
[V]

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

For a layout that large and dramatic looking, I'm shocked they run such crappy trains on it. One would expect to see some well weathered, detailed stuff rolling over those spectacular bridges. Nope. Its like tyco, mantua, and other crap.

If they have so much cash, why not custom weather some BLI or Atlas locos and operate them? I'd be much more pleasant to watch and enhance the overall experience.

[2c]

When I visited the attraction, I talked with one of the operators in the control room. I had asked why they used only 2-3 styles of Mantua locos only and not run a better quality such as Atlas, Kato or Stewart.
They have found that with continuous running that dollar for dollar the Mantua proved to be the best choice and most reliable. I don't know about that, I think a Kato/ Stewart can take the most abuse next to a BB Athearn. Maybe they get a deal that can't be beat w/ the Mantua.
Bob K.

[lesterperry]

I went there a few years ago. I was impressed with the size. Disapointed with the layout. After about 1/2 way through it I was ready to go from boredem. I would not tell someone not to go, but would say unless $$ is a problem if you are in the are stop and see it. If for no other reason than to be able to say I've been there. Sure it is not a nodel RR but it is huge it is different. Now that you know what it is if you do go you have no right to complain about it.

[Anonymous]

looks interesting enough.... but i wouldn't pay unless it was something my kid HAD to see!

[jondrd]

3rd rail,
Is 90% of the expansion going to be done by one person?
Pointing at someone to do something doesn't mean you built it single handed.(in model railroading; business world is exempt from this rule)
Guess if the display is to undergo a huge expansion the owner is laughing all the way to the bank.

Jon

[CP5415]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

For a layout that large and dramatic looking, I'm shocked they run such crappy trains on it. One would expect to see some well weathered, detailed stuff rolling over those spectacular bridges. Nope. Its like tyco, mantua, and other crap.

If they have so much cash, why not custom weather some BLI or Atlas locos and operate them? I'd be much more pleasant to watch and enhance the overall experience.

[2c]

When I visited the attraction, I talked with one of the operators in the control room. I had asked why they used only 2-3 styles of Mantua locos only and not run a better quality such as Atlas, Kato or Stewart.
They have found that with continuous running that dollar for dollar the Mantua proved to be the best choice and most reliable. I don't know about that, I think a Kato/ Stewart can take the most abuse next to a BB Athearn. Maybe they get a deal that can't be beat w/ the Mantua.
Bob K.

If I recall correctly, the Mantua's were donated to Northlandz.

Gordon

[rrandb]

If Norhlandz is a joke I suspect they are laughing all the way to the bank as they are planning an expansion. The brands that were referred to as "crap" are what was in the first set most of started this hobby with. Perhaps there is a need for a "really expensive" and /or "precision" model forum where it would be more appropiate to bash other peoples life long loves. [2c]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409

Can we actually compare a large display layout to real trains though?


MSI

Sure, when we are railfanning, part of the fun is wondering where a certain boxcar has been or where it will go. I'll agree with you there. But you can't do the same with a model railroad

Realistic operation with carcards, waybills, timetables and train orders.


It's a fictional display layout, built for continuous running, it doesn't need to be prototypical.

It makes people who slave over representing a prototype look like fools when joe-public believes thats all model railroads are.

My personal two cents...When I go railfanning, I go to watch trains. I see many at times, and sometimes I don't do so well.

Chase a train one day, sitting trackside and watching the parade of trains is boring and sometimes tedious, unless you live on a high traffic line like Sand patch, The Pennsy middle division or the Chicago racetrack


When I go to display layouts, I go to watch trains, just in a smaller size, and can stand there for as long as I want, just watching them go around.

Move away from that mentality and discover the world of operation, it adds enjoyment tenfold to the hobby, I operated on a layout for about 4 hours today and It beats running in loops anyday.

No, when I go railfanning, I don't go to watch a loop, but when I go to a display layout, I do.

You can railfan display layouts, but only if there realistic like MSI, not jokes like Northlandz

[Bill H.]

From Northlandz own info:

The Northlandz is a wonderful way to spend a wholesome day of fun with the entire family. Northlandz is the culmination of twenty -five years of dedication to art and creation by Bruce Williams Zaccaginino. Truely unique in the world, New Jersey's official attraction is becoming one of the most popular attractions on the East coast. Learn more about Northlandz at northlandz.com.

I've seen it. I will, however, refrain from any bashing until I can measure MY trackage in miles...

[cnw4001]

I've been there and agree with the thoughts that it's not a realistic scale model operation. It's a curiosity and that frankly is what you find in most of the commercial attraction layouts.

[Anonymous]

People who play seriously with model trains have no room to blast anyone else's hobby. The Northlandz guy has done very well. When will we all learn that it's all really cool stuff, including operation, fine detailing, being prototypical, Northlandz, or anyting else, with something for everyone's taste. It's like we used to say when I worked at a TV station, "If you don't like it, turn it off!" We never said that to the public, of course. You don't have to like every model railroad. Do your own thing and don't waste time putting down someone else's idea of fun. No need to worry about Northlandz hurting the hobby or anything like that. It's not brain surgery. It's miniature trains, for garsh sakes!

[cmrproducts]

What it all boils down to is a bunch of big kids (adults?) playing with little toy trains, whether they are perfect replicas (which they are not) or tinplate.

You can talk all you want but it still is the same.

And yes I am in that category!

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb
The brands that were referred to as "crap" are what was in the first set most of started this hobby with. Perhaps there is a need for a "really expensive" and /or "precision" model forum where it would be more appropiate to bash other peoples life long loves.

I'm not bashing any loves. I just expected a layout that huge and spectcular to have at least realistic looking trains operating on it. If he's going to run mechanically upgraded Mantua/Tyco stuff, he should detail the outside some and do some minimal weathering.

[2c]

[Budliner]

maby they had a bad hooser day

[ARTHILL]

Would that I could get this much interest in my layout.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stuckarmchairing
It's like some 6 year olds fantasy layout.

Thats why I call it the worlds largest train set.

James

[Anonymous]

It's a toy train amusement park

[dwRavenstar]

Heyas,

In a hobby where the accepted general idea is to do what makes YOU happy I'm honestly surprised to see so many spelling out the percieved shortcomings of the Northlandz attraction.

So many have disparaged the portion of the public that has little or no understanding of this hobby but they continue that line of thinking when they describe what may well be the best known opportunity available for the masses to have their first look at what can be accomplished in the genre.

I haven't got the figures at hand but I'll feel safe in assuming they're monstrous and also safe in figuring that even a small percentage of the visitors to the Northlandz attraction becoming involved with the hobby would be a great infusion of new blood. That same new blood that has so often been described as critically necessary in a great many posts.

Think of how many who are currently involved who had their initial exposure offered through a department store display window during a long, long ago Christmas weekend. Now, imagine the potential number of future railfans and railroad modellers in years far away who will look back on their visit to that New Jersey attraction as their inspiration.

Have never been lucky enough to have been there but I hope one day. Even after that initial visit I hope I'll keep any negative comments under my hat until I feel MUCH more secure with my own modelling efforts.

Not a knock to anyone, just a personal observation.

dwRavenstar

[rrandb]

They upgrade them internally so they will run continueously. Put your engine on your track and turn it on. Let it run 8 hours a day every day. You will soon be busy keeping then running. If you have time to add detail and weathering that great. There priority is continueous running. Oh I almost forgot, perfect track, no deraiments either. You should have plenty of time for better sceinery. I will be the first one to plunk down my money. [:P]