Kato USA, Good, Bad, Indifferent?

[ouengr]

Over the past several years it seems to me that there has been a dramatic shift in the way that HO modelers view Kato. When the Kato SD40-2 was first announced, I bought all of them that I could afford. Since then I have purchased upwards of 20 Katos. During the past couple of years, I have sold nearly all of them in favor of locomotives by Atlas Master, P2k, and others.

I was interested in acquiring several of the SD70MAC, AC4400CW, and others when they were announced only to be disappointed when they arrived at my local LHS. The overly large handrails, cast in place plastic blobs for truck struts, and electrical issues made if difficult for me to justify paying $150 for the units. At one point I figured that it would cost an extra $50 to fix Kato’s cost cutting. This was just something that I was not willing to do.

Recently I went to the OKC Train Show and had the opportunity to speak with a Kato representative. I asked him about my concerns and if Kato ever reviews and improves models between product runs. I was basically ignored and told that Kato generally will not rework existing products. At this point, I basically gave up on Kato. I still have several of the units, primarily models that no one else makes, but I doubt that I will purchase any more.

Am I then only one who is disappointed with the design and manufacture of recent Kato products? I understand that mistakes happen and I am not looking to pan Kato for past errors. I am wondering about the apparent disregard for customer input and the impact on the hobby. I have heard rumors for quite a while that Kato’s sales are falling and that they may cut back or discontinue future HO production. I would like to now what others in the hobby are thinking.

[Budliner]

I read the kato website and got a bad taste in my mouth
the dont see to be very freindly

B

[SMassey]

My Katos are my favorite locomotives I have. my only gripe with Kato is that they have a very limited selection of locomotives available at any given time. I Model a freelance RR but I also have NS running through my little town. I would like to get some NS SD40-2s but they have not been out in a long while and are nearly impossable to get on E-bay. I have never had any electrical problems in any of my Katos and I have about 12 of them now of many different models. I usualy convert me older GP35s to the quick plug circuit board and glue the weight to the roof of the body. I will still buy Katos they are my fav and I have never had any problem with their customer service.

[Anonymous]

my N ones seem great! don't know bout HO. Not much choice down here, not much of anything;-([:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(] I wish I had a greater choice!

[Anonymous]

I have a Kato SD90MAC and 3 SD70MACs. I am looking at them sitting next to a P2K, an atlas, and an Athearn Genesis and a BLI. All of these models are modern diesels. I really dont see oversized handrails and blobs that you are talking about, plus the Katos run great. Atlas and Kato mechanically are very close. Its hard to tell which is better. The P2Ks are right behind, the Bli just behind the P2K and the Genesis lag way back in running quality. The genesis have about the same detail as the Katos, although the Katos have more frame detail. The P2K, Atlas and BLI do have good detail, but not quite as good as genesis or Kato. So, if you arent looking for factory installed sound. Kato ranks the best in my book.

[ICRR1964]

This subject is like Ford, GM, and Chrysler corp being compared. The Kato HO line is ok, I use to own a few of the SD-40-2's they were ok! I think P2K and Atlas make a better engine with better pulling power. Thats just my own opinion though.

[ouengr]

I should probably be a little more specific about the electrical problems that I have experienced with Kato. I had a set of the SD40-2 that Kato release several years ago and the circuit boards burned out withint just a few minutes of run time. Only after speaking with Kato over a period of several months, did I finally understand the problem. The maximum allowable voltage for a Kato is 12 V DC. Most power packs are capable of creating 16 V. I like to run long trains with minimal power and frequently need more than the 12V DC. It always seemed to me that Kato should design their electrical systems to handle the full electrical potential that can be reasonably expected. Apparently I was not the only modeler who had this problem with Kato since they have now added a warning in the side of box about the voltage limitation.

I have also had the modify the electrical system on several different units due to the copper tabs creating a short circuit. I have never had to make this type of modififcation on any other locomotive that I have had to own.

I own several Kato units at the present time and they are adequote, but they could be much better. My hope is that Kato will make their units better so that we can have better models.

[GN-Rick]

I own 3 Kato NW2s, 2 SD45s and 6 GP35s (3 re-bodied with GP30 shells). I have
had absolutely no trouble with any of them. The NW2s are easily my best running
and pulling yard switchers. The level of detail on all of them is quite adequate for
me as I generally upgrade the detail to suit my Great Northern Railway proto-
type. The SD45s, IMHO are the best available-for running and shell quality.
I can't say anything about the later prototype Kato offerings as I don't buy anything
that the GN wasn't running as of 1967. My [2c]

[Darth Santa Fe]

I own 1 Kato, 1 Athearn Genesis and 1 LL P2K. The Kato is the smoothest runner, but it's not as detailed, quiet or powerful as the other 2, which makes me wonder why I spent more on it than the P2K.[:(]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

I think P2K and Atlas make a better engine with better pulling power. Thats just my own opinion though.

That is true. The Katos dont pull as well. My BLI AC6000 and my P2K SD60 will easily each pull 100 cars. The SD90MAC (the best puller of my Katos) will pull 100 cars, but just barely, lots of wheelslip and wont go upgrade. I like powerful engines because I like long trains. The longest train I ever had was at the club. BLI AC6000 on front, followed by the SD90MAC and an SD70MAC. About 100 cars back I had the SD60 and another 70MAC. And on the rear, A dash 9 and the other 70MAC. A bunch of big engines. But it was pretty neat watching a 250 car train go up 2.5% grades[:D]

[jacon12]

I also have one Kato, an SD-40-2 and it is a fine running machine. I'm not one to really get excited about fine detail, although I have a couple of engines that are right up there. Smoothness in running means more to me, so that makes the Kato A-OK.
Jarrell

[Don Gibson]

ouengr

I've been buying KATO since they were first introduced by Atlas. My latest purchase is 3 SD70MAC's. I think most here will agree that KATO is equal to anything else; however THAT being said, most everyone's newest offering's leap-frog their previous effort's, to induce people to buy the new product: KATO added directional LED lighting; Atlas added DCC and Sound option's; Athearn totally re-eingineered their product lines.

Also needed to be said that the KATO SD-40-2's had an uncharacteristic wiring flaw, Atlas GP-40's had 'surging' problem's, and Athearn's Genesis SD-70s wouldn't stay on the track. Manufacturer's, like parent's, are sometimes reluctant to admit THEIR children have problem's. In that regard ATLAS has shown outstanding concern.

I Guess Quality shows - even if eventually.

For what it's worth, every mfr. has it's champion's, and every roadname has it's favorite's. So 'who's pop can lick who's pop', varies from day to day. If you are a ' modeler' you can fix those SD-40 problem's with Kato's help. If not, Kato will fix them for you under their warrantee terms (1 year?) There is no 'free' lunch.

[trainboyH16-44]

They are not improving as much as I'd like, but they are still great. I will not stop buying them, that's for sure!

[ouengr]

[For what it's worth, every mfr. has it's champion's, and every roadname has it's favorite's. So 'who's pop can lick who's pop', varies from day to day. If you are a ' modeler' you can fix those SD-40 problem's with Kato's help. If not, Kato will fix them for you under their warrantee terms (1 year?) There is no 'free' lunch.]

When I had the problems with Kato sd40-2's, I contacted them and worked with them to determine the cause. The first time that the boards fried I bought a new set, a new power pack, and checked out the entire electrical system figuring that I had the problem. Only after months of work did I finally understand that the problem is in Kato's design. Once I understood the problem, I was able to use the units but not without trepadation. Yes, I could get the units to run, but it was difficult knowing that at any moment the boards could short and I would be out $20.00 per unit to replace them. This is why I ultimately sold the units.

[Don Gibson]

My point,oungr, was the SD40-2 was an 'exceptional ' unit. "Fry "the board's? - how unusual. More than once? - Did you modify the unit or install a DCC module?

[BRAKIE]

Kato doesn't really seem to be all that interested in the HO market as most of their releases under Kato USA has been in N Scale.Why? Who's to say except Kato.From what I been reading on that other famous forum is Kato is suffering from several mistakes from the overly large handrails to the paint being to thick.
We all know of the wiring problem some units has..

IMHO Kato *could* do much better by releasing more different types of locos but,chooses not to.Why? Only Kato knows that answer.[:(]

I have 4 Kato GP35s that I had custom painted for C&O..When these units are setting next to my Athearn RTR C&O GP35s,IMHO both look good,both run smooth and quiet and will mu together..

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: what I been reading on that other famous forum is Kato is suffering from several mistakes from the overly large handrails to the paint being to thick. - Brakie

LARRY:

From a guy who has posted his"preferrence's for Athearn Blue box engine's over Kato's - before Genesis & RTR came out - tell me again about 'overly thick handrails' and 'painting quality'.

[csxns]

That's bad.........

[Anonymous]

I can't speak for HO models but they produce really nice N gauge engines...smooth running, quality build, beautiful models.

Brad

[BRAKIE]

Don,You're fishing again and way off the fish.

[Paul3]

My favorite Kato USA quote is from the Springfield (MA) show recently. An N-scaler asked them why they didn't make more New England roads (for example, they did not make a single B&M RDC...even tho' B&M had the largest RDC fleet). Their reply was that they do enough New England roads because they had just recently done a Pennslyvania RR loco. Duhhhh....

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[accord1959]

Had a problem with Kato too, I bought an AC4400CW on ebay and it arrived missing 2 parts, the fan shroud and the rear railing. The seller was willing to take it back with full refund including shipping, I should have taken him up on it. Instead I told him that I would contact Kato and I was sure they would supply these factory installed parts. 2 emails and a written letter to Kato USA and not 1 response, not even a "sorry no can do", nothing. After 2 months of waiting I decided to try my luck with Kato Japan since that is where the AC4400's are made. Sent a letter 3 weeks ago, nothing yet but still hopeing. Does anyone know these parts are produced by any other company?

[ouengr]

Originally posted by Don Gibson

My point,oungr, was the SD40-2 was an 'exceptional ' unit. "Fry "the board's? - how unusual. More than once? - Did you modify the unit or install a DCC module?

The units were direct and unmodified from Kato. I have not yet converted to DCC but hope to in the near future. I replaced the boards in all five units two or three times. The total cost to keep the units up exceeded the original price. On one occasion I installed a brand new circuit board and watched the unit run without the shell on to see if I could see anything shorting or some other problem. This did not work and I actually was burned when I checked the circuit board after a few minutes of running. Ultimatley the problem was that the Kato electronics are only designed for 12V DC and most systems in the US are designed for 16V DC. To me this is a clear defect that Kato could easily correct if they wanted to. Unfortunatly, it seem that there answer is a warning on the side of a box instead of a upgraded electrical system.

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