Leaving out the details: BLI Powerhouse vs. Paragon

[tstage]

I know that the BLI Powerhouse series is less detailed than their Paragon series. With that said, I have a two-fold question:

1. What would be missing from a BLI heavy 2-8-2 Mike?
2. Are there aftermarket parts that could be added to bring it up to detailing spec? Or, are we talking molding issues that just aren't quite as detailed on the Powerhouse series? (Extreme example: A Tyco 2-8-2 vs. an brass 2-8-2. The original mold is not very detailed and accurate.)

Thanks for you answers.

Tom

[cacole]

One difference is a real front pilot coupler instead of a dummy that can't be replaced. More added small detail parts such as pop-off valves, hand rails, etc. The body molding itself appears to be the same.

[tstage]

Charles,

Would those sorts of thing be difficult to locate a supplier for? Do you know any right off hand? Thanks!

Tom

[Pruitt]

Cal-Scale used to make all sorts of steam details. Unless I'm thinking of the wrong company, Bowser bought them out and sell the parts now. When I last bought them, they were still marketed under the name Cal-Scale.

[cacole]

If you're really concerned about those parts being on the model, you'd be better off to just spend the extra money for the better locomotive version instead of trying to add your own, but Brunton is right, Bowser now owns Cal-Scale.

[Fergmiester]

Cal Scale parts are still available from Bowser and can be ordered through Walther's.

Maybe I'm missing something here but for the prices BLI is asking I though everything was high end or is this something new?

Fergie

[Pruitt]

Fergie -

The early releases of the BLI Heavy Mike were the Powerhouse series - no working front coupler. I have two of those. The next release, of which I have one, is the Paragon series, with the working front coupler. That series also comes with an extra main driver that has traction tires.

BLI has replacement traction-tired drivers for sale for the heavy mike, at $7. I bought two of them - one for each of the Powerhouse locos.

They all run the same - excellently. The difference in detail level isn't obvious unless you look closely at the units.

[tstage]

And, with the new releases coming out for their Light Mike, BLI has dropped the LM from their Paragon series to their Powerhouse Classic series. (At least, that's the way it's listed on their web site.) Seems strange, since they should still have the mold from the first run - unless, of course, it's worn out.

Tom

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

One difference is a real front pilot coupler instead of a dummy that can't be replaced.

Charles,

Lookie what I found out about the front coupler:

http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/bli282coupler.htm

(A 0-80 isn't the smallest, but it's still one tiny screw.)

Tom

[jrbernier]

The Heavy 2-8-2 has some 'molded on' detail - like the sander lines. Other than that, the basic engine chassis is comparable. I have two of the early run Heavy 2-8-2's and other than adding a working front coupler, they work just fine, and after a number change and some weathering, they look real good!

Jim

[selector]

Unless I am mistaken, cacole and Tom, you have both dirverged right from the beginning. Tom, cacole, in his first reply, is comparing the lower value BLI versions to the Paragon series...I believe. In his second reply, he says just get the better version, and Bowser is not it. I believe he means the Paragon will have more of what you seek than the Powerhouse version.

You can still make brass wire stuff and CA it to the shell of the Mike if you'd like to dress it up. Otherwise, it already has injectors, rails, pop-offs, etc. ...doesn't it?

Just seemed to me that you two were not meeting in the ether quite right. Maybe I am in left field...[:)]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage
1. What would be missing from a BLI heavy 2-8-2 Mike?

There are very few differences between the BLI light and heavy USRA Mikes. The USRA light has a deck apron and a few more detail parts added as seperate pieces (instead of cast on piping), and has a working front coupler. The USRA light also comes with a second driver pair without traction tire.The tenders and drive trains are EXACTLY the same on both engines. The difference isn't worth the extra $150 BLI originally wanted for the light.

QUOTE:
2. Are there aftermarket parts that could be added to bring it up to detailing spec? Or, are we talking molding issues that just aren't quite as detailed on the Powerhouse series? (Extreme example: A Tyco 2-8-2 vs. an brass 2-8-2. The original mold is not very detailed and accurate.)

Both BLI Mikes are great models of what they're advertised to be: as-delivered examples of the USRA engines. As such, they both need upgrading , unless you're modeling the 1919-1925 era. USRA steam, and steam in general, didn't keep their as-delivered appearance for long. If you're modeling more modern period NYC, NKP, B&O or any other road that had the USRA Mikes, you'll want to add at least SOME detailing.

Bowser is the biggest steam detailing parts manufacturer out there these days. They've got their own named brand of parts, as well as Cal-Scale, Cary, Selley and Arbour. Precision Scale is #2, with both their own line of parts and most of the old Kemtron line. Unfortunately, neither manufacturer really has much of their parts lines online, so it's a good idea to buy each company's printed parts catalog before you start detailing. My two copies are well worn, and have been an invaluable investment.

BLI made a major tactical error in marketing the USRA light Mike under the Paragon line. The engine really is no different than the Powerhouse heavy MIke, and modelers VERY soon found that out. I really like the BLI USRA light model, but cancelled my six engine preorder once I found out that the engine was basically the same as my $170 USRA heavies, for $100 more. If you notice, I wasn't alone, since BLI lights are now being dumped on the market at much reduced prices, which are actually lower than the heavy's street price ($140 as opposed to $170). Now that the lights are at the price they should have been at all along, I'm slowly buying the few that I need.

[tstage]

I think I see what you mean, Crandell. I believe the title contributed to the confusion/ambiguity. My fault.

For clarification: The BLI heavy Mike ONLY comes in the Powerhouse Classic series. I might be interested in purchasing the heavy Mike someday and was just wanting to know:

1. What was missing or left off these particular heavy Mikes, since the Powerhouse Classic series is less detailed?

2. Are their any blatant things missing from the BLI heavy MIke that I could correct?

3. Who would make any aftermarket parts to do that? (I'm assuming that Cal-Scale parts from Bowser would stil be the correct answer.)

Is that a little more clear now?

Tom

[tstage]

Ray,

Just read your post after posting my correction. Thanks! [:)] That's VERY helpful information and what I was looking for. One queston though. Wouldn't the boiler size on the BLI heavy Mike be larger than the light Mike?

Tom

[rexhea]

Rather than start a new thread on this model I would like to ask you a question. I have the Powerhouse Mike, but also a problem that causes jerking at all speeds and I know several MR's that have experienced this. Do you have this problem and what did you do about it?

I have sent it to BLI only for it to return the same. They replaced the electronics and did this and that, but ...still the same. The loco is very smooth with the motor removed and pushing it on a piece of glass. However, under power the motor shaft is allowed to go back and forth on top of the helical drive gear with a spring like action almost like the thrust washer isn't doing it's job. Shimming the shaft to limit this motion helped some, but not entirely. Northwest Shortline doesn't have a direct replacement without changing out the gear box.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.[:)]

REX

EDIT: Sorry, my post should have said Powerhouse instead of Paragon.

[tpatrick]

I cannot comment on Rex's jerky Mike, except to note that my PRR 4-8-2 does that, too, although not so much as to be a problem. Check the motor mounting screws and ensure they are tight. My M1 went back to the factory where they found the screws not loose, but actually missing.

Tstage, what's missing from the heavy Mike may depend on your prototype. I model Erie and I would like to buy BLI's offering, but I can't because Erie used either Elesco or Worthington feedwater heaters on their N classes. BLI offers only injectors. I confess to being a rivet counter, but feedwater heaters are much larger than rivets. They really form the character of the engine's appearance. Take a good look at your prototype (if you follow one) and see if BLI meets your needs.

Tim

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

For clarification: The BLI heavy Mike ONLY comes in the Powerhouse Classic series.

Not true, Tom. I bought two BLI heavy Mikes in the Powerhouse series - both of the road numbers offered for CB&Q (5500 & 5508). Last year they came out with another Burlington road number for the heavy Mike (5501), and it was a Paragon model - working coupler, traction-tired driver, and all that.

[tstage]

Mark,

Huh, how about that. I was only going by what was on BLI's Product web page:

http://www.broadway-limited.com

(The Products link is located on the left side of the page..)

Tom

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Ray,

Just read your post after posting my correction. Thanks! [:)] That's VERY helpful information and what I was looking for. One queston though. Wouldn't the boiler size on the BLI heavy Mike be larger than the light Mike?

Tom

Yep. That's why the boiler assembly is the only thing different between the two models. Everything else (cab, tender, chassis, PC board) is exactly the same. Of course, that's just about how the USRA designed them!

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tpatrick
Tstage, what's missing from the heavy Mike may depend on your prototype. I model Erie and I would like to buy BLI's offering, but I can't because Erie used either Elesco or Worthington feedwater heaters on their N classes. BLI offers only injectors. I confess to being a rivet counter, but feedwater heaters are much larger than rivets. They really form the character of the engine's appearance. Take a good look at your prototype (if you follow one) and see if BLI meets your needs.

Tim

Tim,

Welcome to the club! I'm modeling the Nickel Plate, which took the basic USRA light design to new levels of superdetailing, with Delta trailing trucks, booster engines, feedwater heaters, twin air pumps on the pilot (and a new pilot), new cabs, new tenders, and miles of new piping. But looking underneath all those add-on doo-dads is still a basic USRA engine. Detailing a stock YSRA light model to fit my prototype is just a matter of hanging on new details, which really isn't as hard as it sounds.

So long as the base USRA engine comes close to an Erie 2-8-2, there's no reason why you can't use it as the starting point for Erie engines. Since the only other way you'll likely build a fleet of Erie steam is to buy brass, decent stand-ins or even correct redetailing jobs is usually a good route to take (especailly since brass isn't DCC-friendly, and usually runs worse than modern plastic steam). Recently, I've helped modelers get a start on quality stand-in models for NYC and Southern steam, and I'm about to start an online modeling clinic on turning a stock USRA light Mike into a NKP-specific engine. Let me know if you need any help to get started!

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Mark,

Huh, how about that. I was only going by what was on BLI's Product web page...
Tom

The newer loco wasn't advertised as anything but a new road number, as I recall, but I might not have paid that colse attention to details. But I was very pleasantly surprised when 5501 showed up - I wasn't expecting the working front coupler or the traction driver.

I see what you mean about their product list - it doesn't show any Paragon heavy Mikes.

[selector]

Their 2005 catalogue has a heavy Mike on page 32, and a light Mike a few pages later, all in Paragon.

[wjstix]

So far as I've seen the Heavy mike is Powerhouse, Light USRA mike is a Paragon. FWIW I have a GN heavy mike, it fits in well with my other BLI engines (2-10-4, 4-6-4) and Spectrum engines. I'm sure if I wanted to I could add a few details (most noticeable problem is the missing apron) but overall I think the detailing on the mike is 'good enough' as is.