"How To" series: Successful eBay Shopping - NOT Off-topic; MRR applicable

[tstage]

Let me first preface the subject title by stating that I just won an auction today on eBay for another bargain locomotive for my layout: A Proto 2000 Alco S1 switcher.

For those of you who know me, you know that I just LOVE these switchers! The Proto 2000 S1 that I already have has been an absolute gem from day one and absolutely crawls like no other locomotive I have ever seen. I also model the New York Central. With that said, however, this recent purchase is a little out of the ordinary for me.

Over the past year or so, I've developed an affinity for the Erie RR. Don't ask me why. Maybe...it's the paint scheme and the logo. (I think it looks pretty cool. ) Maybe...it's the fact that the Erie was one of the major RR lines that ran by and through Cleveland here. (I've been in Cleveland now for over 25 years so I've kinda grown some deep roots living here.)

Maybe...it's because I associate the Erie with Steamtown (which I visited last year and enjoyed it VERY much), and the yard next to Sreamtown used to belong to the Erie Lackawanna. Maybe...it's because when I think of the Erie, I primarily think of a working and freight RR - the major aspect of railroading that intrigues me very much. Whatever the reason, I have a soft spot for the Erie RR in my heart. Anyhow, I digress. Back to the topic at hand.

I spotted a new Erie Proto 2000 S1 switcher on eBay the other day for an outrageous price. I thought to myself, "Hmm. Here's a chance to pick up what I know to be a terrific locomotive at a terrific price in a road name that I normally wouldn't purchase but have been interested in looking at."

I remembered how much I paid for my NYC Proto 2000 S1 last year from Trainworld. I also looked over the description of the locomotive to determine whether the seller knew what he was selling. Apart from an error in the title (of which I immediately contacted the seller about and took the opportunity to ask him a few questions), everything looked good so I jumped on it.

Before I placed my bid on the S1, however, I determined that I was ONLY going to pay up to a certain price, and set that price as my maximum. (Again, knowing what I paid for my first S1 from Trainworld helped me to determine that amount.)

Over the subsequent days, I periodically would receive e-mails on the current status of the auction, or I'd check "My eBay Summary" to see how things were progressing, or whether someone else had placed another bid on it.

The moment of truth came when about 12 hours before the auction was to close, someone counterbid and outbid my original maximum limit by less than a dollar. "Hmm", I thought long and hard, remembered the original Trainworld price, and upped my maximum limit by only an additonal $2, BUT only willig to go as high as the original Trainworld price. After that, no one else made anymore bids on the locomoitve.

When it was all said and done around 17:05 EST, I picked up a new Erie Proto 2000 S1 off eBay for the total of $26.64! That's right, $26.64! (That's nearly $3.50 cheaper than I bought my NYC S1 for from Trainworld!) Adding in S&H ($4.55), the grand total came up to $31.19. ($6.75 cheaper than the original grand total purchase.)

As I mediitated on my terrific purchase today, I thought about how I go about looking for and bidding on ebay auctions and products and thought I'd share that with you all. If you read through the blow-by-blow above, it pretty much goes through (in order) the process that will be listed.

Now, as you read through my eBay purchasing rules below, you MUST take into consideration the following information:

1) I only have a total of six (7) successful eBay purchases under my belt
2) Of those six, I have been burned on one - primarily because I violated rule #3
3) I have walked away from a number of auctions.

With that said, without further ado, here are...

Tom's Steps for Successful eBay Shopping:

#1 - Know what you want / Know what you are looking for

#2 - Know the product -->

• What is it's current MSRP? (newer item)
• What was it originally listed at? (older item)
• When did this product originally come out?
• Can I find it cheaper?
• Have I checked elsewhere?
• Are there more than one of these listed on eBay?
• What are they going for?

(If Steps #1 and #2 can be answered successfully , then proceed to Step #4. If you can NOT answer Steps #1 & 2 successfully, then ONLY proceed to Step #3.)

#3 - Ask questions...LOTSA questions --> Of: eBay seller - forum - yourself - until you can successfully answer Steps 1 & 2.

(Complete Steps #1-3 BEFORE proceeding to Steps 4 - 6.)

#4 - Set your "reasonable" maximum limit* and DON'T go above that amount!

#5 - Place your bid

#6 - Walk away if you are outbid

Now, you could say that I violated rules #5 & 6 by upping my original maximum by $2. I set my original maximum based on the cost of the bid AND S&H. If I had purchased it for my maximum limit, with S&H, the total would have come to exactly $30. I re-evaluated considering the total cost of the original purchase price from Trainworld ($29.99) and the S&H for that purchase ($7.95) - of which I was well below.

Anyway, I'm hoping by sharing this that it comes in handy for those of you who frequent eBay for your purchases. Sorry for the long explanation but...I thought it better that you read how I went through the process firsthand myself. Please feel free to expand on the list. Looking forward to hearing from others.

Tom

[Virginian]

I have bought a whole lot more than seven items on eBay, and let me add something. I know a lot of people don't like it, but if you place your bid(s) well before the auctions are over, the average selling prices go higher. Sniping at the last second does help keep prices down, regardless of who ends up winning the item. You can still set the maximum you want to bid. I fully realize it is easier to set a bid at 5PM when the auction ends at 11:30PM, and walk away, therefore more and more people are doing that, and therefore more people are paying more for stuff on average on eBay. I have found the number of "bargains" to be far far less than there were a year ago or before. A bargain to me is something like an HO gauge, mint, P2K Heritage 2-8-8-2, for $150 or less, or a 12 pack of Accurail hoppers for $50, or a new P2K tender for $14. I am glad I got a lot of stuff I wanted/needed before the current trend took over, because I saved a fortune. Extremely rare if not non-existant to find anything in that order of magnitude anymore.
Did you ever notice that the people encouraging people to use the eBay bid process are mostly sellers, and eBay; the people who make more money the higher irtems go for?

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Virginian

I have bought a whole lot more than seven items on eBay, and let me add something. I know a lot of people don't like it, but if you place your bid(s) well before the auctions are over, the average selling prices go higher. Sniping at the last second does help keep prices down, regardless of who ends up winning the item. You can still set the maximum you want to bid.

Who Cares what everyone else likes? I've been a sniper (and seller) for over 9 years.. It's the only way I ever win anything I want at a price I'm willing to pay.. People putting in a max bid at the beginning of an auction or even an hour before it ends, will often find themselves disappointed or paying more than they Really wanted to.

I watch an auction to see where it goes and if it's still at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll bid.... in the last 5-10 seconds.. And yes, Sometimes I'm out-sniped. Oh well, there'll be another one (whatever it was). I'm finding as a seller that more and more people are doing this.. Many of my items don't get bid on until the last 30 seconds.

Bottom line is if there is something you want, there are 2 ways to get it (on ebay). One is to snap it up in the last seconds with your best bid or to put your best bid out there early for everyone else to chip away at. The difference is, with the sniper bid, you don't have a chance to rebid. But you put in your best bid, Right? So what difference does it make?? At least you won't end up in a foolish bidding war..

That's the way I see it anyway..

Jeff

[1shado1]

Tom, your advice for the most part is excellent.[:D] But I have to agree with Virginian and rolleiman: sniping is the best way to go when bidding on ebay.[tup]

Jeff

[Anonymous]

Sniping is the best way. Here are my tips for successful sniping on eBay.

1)Use Tom's steps one, two, and three.
2)Get the absolute maximum price you wi***o pay in your head.
3)Place your absolute maximum bid with 5-10 seconds left.

It has been successful for me, even back in the days of 28K dial-up.

[ICRR1964]

This is very true, you have to set your limit, and come in at the last minute or few seconds. Its a flip of a coin then, but your odds are better than bidding at the beginning.
I buy and sell allot on ebay in the winter months, I am getting some MR items ready for new homes and will use ebay to get them there. Being a seller has its drawbacks, I had several items last year that went out the roof for an unbelieveable amount, your going to laugh at this! A matched pair of GP9 BB Athearn's in original boxes, they brought close to $65. The person who won the item, had second thoughts on the item after it ended and wanted to back out then. I told him that if he did he would get neg feedback. He paid with no problems then, good feedback was left and we were both happy. A day later I had 3 BB Athearn GP35's that ended, they brought close to $80. The same bidder for the GP9's won again. The guy said he could not help himself and said he had a problem with losing. We see this all the time with bidders going beyond the retail price. You got to set a limit, or ask yourself how much are you willing to go, then draw the line. I don't like to lose, but we got to be realistic about the items and is it cheaper to go to LHS as stated. I still like the ones who run the price out the roof, complain about it what they paid, then call the seller a crook!

[BRAKIE]

Above all KNOW YOUR PRICES!!! I can not stress that enough..I seen locomotives and cars go for more then I can buy them on line and at some local discount hobby shops..
Again KNOW YOUR PRICES!!!

[tstage]

Thanks for your comments, fellas! [tup] You all make some very valid points.

Matt, even though it wasn't clearly spelled out, I do "sometimes" incorporate your Step #3 as part of my Step #5. And, Jeff, I have to agree with your point: "I watch an auction to see where it goes and if it's still at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll bid..." Monitoring the auction is an absolute must. (I use "Monitor this item" quite extensively.) The key phrase however is "if it's still at a price I'm willing to pay".

The real determining factor and bottom line of the "absolute maximum bid" is how much you REALLY want what you are bidding on. Whether you place your maximum bid earliier on or at the last minute, the important thing is to "draw the line" (or, "I won't pay more than this amount.") in your own mind and determine not cross over it. If you win, you win. If you don't, then...like what Jeff said,

"Sometimes I'm out-sniped [or, outbid]. Oh well, there'll be another one (whatever it was)"...

As mentioned, what you want to avoid is an absurd bidding war. To use Jeff's point above as an illustration, I'm going to share what happened to me just last week.

I was looking for a new NYC BLI 2-8-2 Mike for my layout because I wanted to get a locomotive with sound. I placed a bid for one but was later outbid for it by another buyer. I opted not to counterbid because the price add gone over "my line" and I wasn't going to spend anymore than that. I poked around and found and another NIB BLI Mike that was a Buy it Now! or "Best Offer". Now, even though the Buy it Now! price was way more than I wanted to spend, I offered the seller a "Best Offer" bid for $40 lower and...he took it! [:)] Within a dollar, it was the same price I had originally used as my "absolute maximum bid" on the other Mike I was outbid on - and still almost 50% off list.

Out of curiosity, I kept track of the other auction that I was outbid on. It turns ou that the winner actually ended up paying over $25 more for his BLI Mike than I did on my mine. [:)] Pays to shop.

Everything auction and item is different. The important thing is to determine your own rules and objectives for buying and sticking to them. If you keep violating your own mandates, you run the risk of paying way more for an item than you should have, and, sometimes, is even worth.

Tom

[joeyegarner]

I see it as very much ON topic.

One thing to keep in mind when Ebay shopping is that if what you want got away, there will be another one in a few days weeks or months....so it can be time consuming to shop there but it need not be expensive. Set up searches in your ebay, I have lots, like GP-40, Atlas, Kato, Undecorated, Athearn parts and so on. You can keep checking back and you'll eventualy find what your looking for at the right price.

[Anonymous]

This might be an understood quantity in this discussion, but I'll mention it anyway. I always factor the shipping cost into my maximum bid, i.e. going rate for product minus shipping cost. In fact, I have gotten into the habit of looking at feedback, shipping cost and bid history before I bid. Some of the sellers, especially rookies and those "We'll Sell It On Ebay For You" places really jack up the shipping and handling. Also, I snipe only, via my watched items list and I try to pay as quickly as possible with Paypal to expedite shipping. I think Paypal is a really good deal as a buyer, because I use a dedicated credit card and it provides three layers of protection- the credit card company, Paypal and Ebay. There's my two cents.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drewsdaddy

This might be an understood quantity in this discussion, but I'll mention it anyway. I always factor the shipping cost into my maximum bid, i.e. going rate for product minus shipping cost. In fact, I have gotten into the habit of looking at feedback, shipping cost and bid history before I bid. Some of the sellers, especially rookies and those "We'll Sell It On Ebay For You" places really jack up the shipping and handling.

Gene,

[sigh]...Another point I neglected to include in my post. I actually have a current bid on something right this moment where I did figure in the cost of shipping BEFORE placing my bid. I still haven't put in my absolute maximum bid yet.

Gene, thanks for bring that one up...

Tom

[ouengr]

I have traded on e-bay for several years and can say that their is nothing that I dislike more than snipers. If you know that you want the item make a fair bid and if smeone wants to pay more, then let them. I frimly believe that habitual snipers should be banned from auction sites. The sniping process is an effort to prevent the seller from selling the item at the free market price. Sniping cheats the entire system and is bad for seller and buyers.

[Virginian]

Some of the gun sale sites added an automatic 15 minute extension after any late bid to prevent sniping. Some saw their sales deteriorate and dropped the policy, but others are fighting it. Sellers and the auction sites do not like it, therefore almost by definition, it is better for the buyers.
SNIPING FOREVER !!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I don't see how sniping cheats the seller. When I buy something at the last minute, it means that I have actually raised the bid to win the item. Ergo, the seller is receiving more money. In addition, aside from highly priced items, the HO scale items rarely have a reserve. By placing an item on Ebay without a reserve or the Buy It Now option, the outcome is in the hands of the buyers. That's why there are so many posts on here about ridiculous bids for low end models.
I don't mean to sound defensive, but I have tried placing bids for items whose auctions don't end for six days with no success. Also, if you just turned on the computer, got on Ebay, and looked at items ending. There's a gold plated Overland models (insert favorite model/road name) with one minute left, six bids, free shipping going for half of retail. Wouldn't you bid, and wouldn't that be sniping?

[csmith9474]

I have had great luck with poorly listed items. Some sellers make mistakes like misspelling in the title or not having the appropriate keywords in the title. It doesn't happen often, but often enough to take the time to look for things like this.


And let's stay away from the sniping here. Some people love it and some people hate it, and both sides have plenty of ammo to support a heated debate. It is a no win situation.

[Anonymous]

make sure you know what the seller charges for shipping -if he wanted he could charge $50 to ship something lightweight say, a boxcar and he'd most likley get away with it

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

make sure you know what the seller charges for shipping -if he wanted he could charge $50 to ship something lightweight say, a boxcar and he'd most likley get away with it

Great point! Reat the TOS very carefully and check the shipping. If you have to e-mail the seller about shipping if not specified. A lot of people seem to bid based on what the auction title states.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csmith9474

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

make sure you know what the seller charges for shipping -if he wanted he could charge $50 to ship something lightweight say, a boxcar and he'd most likley get away with it

Great point! Reat the TOS very carefully and check the shipping. If you have to e-mail the seller about shipping if not specified. A lot of people seem to bid based on what the auction title states.

All good advice.. Writing the seller will A: get you the answer you need (one way or another) and B: Determine how difficult it will be to Reach the seller after the auction ends.. I tend not to bid on anything where the shipping cost AND method are not disclosed. If they are charging $8 for a first class 98 cent envelope to send a couple HO scale figures, I move on.. IN comparing prices either with online hobby shops or even the LHS, be sure to factor the total cost.. Online shops also have shipping charges, some will also charge sales tax (some ebay sellers do to when sending to the native state) and of course the LHS will charge sales tax.. Buyer beware is in effect at all times (with all of them), it Is the bidder that sets the final price, the seller sets the opening price.. At the end of the day, in all cases, it's the educated buyer that is always going to be the winner.. Make sure you aren't the one born every minute type..

Good luck all,
Jeff

[Jacktal]

I'm not really for sniping,although I've done my share of it,but this is the way the game is played.You have to go with the wave......Not having a high speed connection,I still am at a disadvantage.Last year,I purchased an N scale Challenger and had to use a chronometer to time the very last minute so that I'd press the "confirm" button at the very last 4-5 seconds to beat another sniper at his game.You think I like it?No way...but I really wanted it and had already failed on at least half a dozen occasions.It's a dirty game in my sense,but if you're not willing to raise an elbow sometimes,stay off the ice.

There are occasions that I can't use sniping,like when the auction ends while I'm at work for instance.This is when I bid my maximum amount,which is generally pretty close to the item's value,and cross my fingers.Occasionnally,I'll get it though quite rare.But then I don't feel bad as I know the item was purchased by someone who really wanted it and paid it a fair price.

As far as "bargain of the century" on Ebay...maybe in dreams...as only neglected items will go at much smaller price than their real value.Most times,I get items that I couldn't find locally or would have needed much research to find,so what I save is effort...not my money.

[1shado1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jacktal

I'm not really for sniping,although I've done my share of it,but this is the way the game is played.You have to go with the wave......Not having a high speed connection,I still am at a disadvantage.Last year,I purchased an N scale Challenger and had to use a chronometer to time the very last minute so that I'd press the "confirm" button at the very last 4-5 seconds to beat another sniper at his game.You think I like it?No way...but I really wanted it and had already failed on at least half a dozen occasions.It's a dirty game in my sense,but if you're not willing to raise an elbow sometimes,stay off the ice.

There are occasions that I can't use sniping,like when the auction ends while I'm at work for instance.This is when I bid my maximum amount,which is generally pretty close to the item's value,and cross my fingers.Occasionnally,I'll get it though quite rare.But then I don't feel bad as I know the item was purchased by someone who really wanted it and paid it a fair price.

As far as "bargain of the century" on Ebay...maybe in dreams...as only neglected items will go at much smaller price than their real value.Most times,I get items that I couldn't find locally or would have needed much research to find,so what I save is effort...not my money.

If you used (free) sniper software, it wouldn't matter if you were at work.[:D]

Jeff

[ouengr]

I believe that an automatic extension on late bids could be a good thing. There are many time where I am bidding on several items and limit my total bids to a budget amount. As auctions end I may be more inclined to spend additional funds when I am out bid on other items. The reason that sniping is bad is that it prevents me from countering another bid with an even higher bid. There are items that I have tracked for months before I found one at a price that I was willing to pay. I have found many great deals on e-bay and in many cases pais less than 50% of the MSRP and in some cases as little as 20%. I prefer buy-it-now listings over auctions but I will bid when the price and item are right. I view e-bay much the way I would view any other form of an auction. Let people bid until the ultimate price is reached. To do anything else is to potentially cheat others buyers and the seller. I used to sell on e-bay until I was hit with a series of snipers and then I started consigning to a local hobby shop instead. The snipers lowered to ultimate final price and frustrated other buyers. When buying and selling on e-bay consider the remafications of your actions and your reaction if the situation was reversed.

[MisterBeasley]

Ha! Just won my first train item on Ebay!

I had a winning bid in and I got sniped literally in the last 5 seconds. Fortunately, my Max Bid was enough that it bumped me over the sniper, so I won because he couldn't respond fast enough. It also saved me the embarrassment of having to pay more for shipping than for the item. (Wait a minute, that doesn't sound good, or does it?)

And a "Vintage Mantua Passenger Car" sure beats Shatner's old toupee...anyday. I suppose I could cut the wig up and use it for flock grass...

[Berk-fan284]

I set my top price often bid early and I am still successful enough of the time at a price that I figure is reasonable enough (usually old brass locos). Sniping is a fact of life get used to it, if it works for you fine if I get beat by a sniper so what they had to outbid me and my self imposed limit to do it, so it doesn't matter to me if they outbid me two days ago or two seconds to go they still went more than I was willing to go.

[Jacktal]

You know what?Berk-fan284 just made an excellent point in my opinion.There's no reason to be upset if you get outbid after bidding a fair price,or better said what you were willing to pay.The problem with some people is that they have a compulsive desire to win...at any price,so let them pay sometimes too much if they want to.

Come to think of it...is being successful at bidding worthy of being called winning?I don't think so.In fact,all it is is business like...a seller offered a product and you made the best offer,just that simple.I don't feel I "win" anything when I buy on Ebay.On the contrary,many times I wonder if I didn't pay too much,but then I'm still satisfied that I bought what I wanted at a price I was willing to pay.

[Anonymous]

I use a sniper service. The reason being I have been outbid by others using a sniper service. When an item has been bid to a good price and your sitting there waiting for the item to close and your the last bidder in a day or so, then the item closes and you have been outbid by a sniper then your only recourse is to become a sniper buyer also.

Dewayne

[Gwedd]

Fellers,

     I've been pretty happy with ebay and I agree with what everyone's been saying. I'll chime in anyway, though.. :)

     After I find something that piques my interest, the first thing I check is the seller's feedback. If he has any negatives or neutrals, I go to his list and see how far back they go and what the reasons were. If all his negatives were over a year ago and he has good feedback since, than I'll consider it. Otherwise, it's not worth the risk to me to bid on his items.

    The next thing I do is look at the shipping and compare it to the opening bid. Many sellers out there jack up the shipping in order to pad their bottom line. It's a fact, and i won't play that game. If the shipping seems unreasonable, then I just move along.

     Anyway, I set a maximum bid and bid early. If I get outbid, then so be it. Another item will come along, ofetn the same thing and eventually I'll get what I was looking for at a price that I feel comfortable with. Patience is, in this case, a very real virtue, and rather than get into a bidding war with someone else, I research the MSRP and bid what I feel I'm willing to pay. Simple and effective. I either win it or I don't.

    Lastly I ALWAYS pay for items with US Postal Service Money Orders. I also require payment in them for things I sell. They cost less than a buck and are as good as cash. In fact, my own bank treats them as a cash deposit. The advantage of a USPS Money Order is that, should you be cheated by the seller, you can sic the Postal Inspectors on him. I had to resort to this once, and it was amazing how quick I got what I paid for, along with a letter of apology from ther seller. Mail Fraud is a felony, big time, and when you use a USPS Money order and mail the payment to him, you qualify for protection from the feds, regardless of the amount.

   Anyway, know what you want, what you are willing to pay (shipping included) and what the seller's feedback is and you'll usually be fine.

    Respects,

[NeO6874]

I like ebay... when people "play nice"

 

• Bidding wars stink
• Sniping gets annoying (especially when its a continued affair... 8 items IN A ROW was my breaking point)
• people jacking up the S&H to avoid ebay costs stink
• people who don't accept paypal won't get my cash (regardless of how "evil" or not paypal actually is)

With that,  I generally set a bid about 75% of what I'm willing to pay at first, and see where things go - if I win - great.  If I get outbid, I'll either look at something else, OR I'll wait til there's about 5-10 mins left on the item, and go to my absolute max.   It seems to have worked for me... I recently acquired a Hudson, a Mike (both Mantua), and a Niagara (Bachmann) (all shipped) for what it'd cost to get the Niagara (sincl. shipping) @ MSRP.  I figure I did pretty well with a 3 for 1 deal there.

 

Now, while they might not be "the best" lookers or runners - I like to tinker, and I'll tinker with something until it performs at or above my expectations of it.  I'll have something in as many pieces as I can get it in within 10 minutes of opening the package... It's a curse I tell you... but anyway, I figure if I can get them pulling (ok, well "dragging" if you want to get technical) 9 improperly weighted non-free rolling cars around.. they should serve my purposes rather well when I can get around to weighting the cars properly and getting better trucks/wheels (or I'll just need more locos..

[rrebell]

I have traded on e-bay for several years and can say that their is nothing that I dislike more than snipers. If you know that you want the item make a fair bid and if smeone wants to pay more, then let them. I frimly believe that habitual snipers should be banned from auction sites. The sniping process is an effort to prevent the seller from selling the item at the free market price. Sniping cheats the entire system and is bad for seller and buyers.

How can it be bad for buyers, I've gotten real bargins snipping.

[BigOzzy86]

There are definitely some people who are addicts to winning at all costs.   You are right about knowing your prices and setting maximums.  I've seen numerous items get bid to well above retail and it makes me shake my head and laugh.  I've contimplated running out to one of the 4 hobby shops I have within 6 miles of my house... buying an item for full price (not even using my discount) and coming back and placing the item on ebay.

They should do a article on some of these complusive winners  (addicts)  Seen some guys with like 500 plus ebay contacts all as purchasers.... get a life.

[MAbruce]

I also follow the same bidding process that Tom initially posted.  I do my homework, set my MAX bid, and walk away.  If I get sniped, then so be it.  That only means that someone was willing to pay more for the item than I was.  To me it was something that would have happened whether sniping is allowed or not.  That's the nature of an auction.

I just don't see much advantage in sniping.  To me it should not merely be a contest of who will win the auction; it should be about winning an auction without overpaying for the item.  I suppose this could be accomplished through sniping, but if someone has already set their MAX bid to an appropriate level, then sniping shouldn't do much to win the auction - unless your intent is to win at any cost.

Now shill bidding is a different story.  Those people should be hunted down and shot like rabid animals.