survey for only those that model steam

[k41361]

I would like to think that the manufacturers of model railroad equipment read these web sites.
What I would like to do is get a response from as many as we could as to what railroads they model from the steam era.Excluding their own fictional railroad.
I model my own Johnstown and Wheeling but also Pennsy ,B&0,Wm and P&WV.There is a lot of Pennsy but very little of the others that are modeled.It seems to me there are a bunch of B&O modelers but very little choice in locomotives.This is what I think this survey would show.Maybe I'm wrong and there is a market for the thousands of UP Challengers.But I think it is oversaturated with these locomotives and think something like a B&O EM1 would be a winner.Like I said ,maybe I'm wrong .A survey may prove it one way or the other

[tstage]

I model NYC locomotives exclusively. Rolling stock is an entirely different matter. I have roadnames from all over for variety. If I were to do it again, I'd probably go with Erie, or maybe ACY.

Tom

[grayfox1119]

I am modeling the former B&A ( Boston & Albany), so I get nothing to buy except unmarked locos that I will need to decal myself. I also am modeling the B&M, MEC, and luckily I can find some of these around, but nowhere as big a selection as other RR's around the country in the steam era. I will also have Rutland RR ( VT) , this one will be tough also, I have seen a few, but like trying to find a desert rat in Alaska winter.
The big popular RR's get the meat from the manufacturers, we get the bones to gnaw on. So, we will go on buying undecorated locos, and adding our own roadnames because the maufacturers obviously do not see enough volume sales to warrant the effort. Gee, and I thought that they were here to serve the hobbyist....what silly boy.

[Anonymous]

I model a 1910 fictional line in NE PA that has a collection of locomotives acquired from all of the usual anthracite haulers: Reading, Erie, D&H, DL&W, L&HR, L&H, L&NE, LV and NYO&W.

If it's a camelback and ran from 1890(?) to 1910... I'm interested.

Don't worry... I'm getting therapy! [:D]

[bikerraypa]

I model the Pennsy, the Bessemer & Lake Erie and the Western Allegheny, although only the PRR and the WA have any steam.

I believe there's an untapped market for affordable and ACCURATE Pennsy steam, in both N and HO. In HO, Bowser makes the most affordable Pennsy steam, and after that it's BLI, brass or unprototypical stuff.

In N, essentially NOBODY makes Pennsy steam. You have to find old Minitrix units and kitba***he heck out of them.

A company that made some affordable and pretty reliable H-, B- and E-class Pennsy steam, especially for N scalers, would make a pile of money.


Ray

[selector]

I have a free-lanced layout, but five steamers from different roads: two from PRR, a UP, an umarked 0-6-0 (eventually to be decaled to Sentinel Coal RR), and a Toronto,Hamilton & Buffalo 4-6-4. I have no great hankering for Canadian steam because they bought mostly American models and modified them somewhat. I am happy with what I can get due to models for C&O, Pere Marquette, Clinchfield, and dozens of others that, if not entirely prototypical for the road, at least bear a close resemblance. If it runs well, looks good, and sounds good, I will give it rail time.

[twcenterprises]

How about some ACCURATE Southern Railway steam? What other RR had Clean, Green Steam Machines? Oh... that was mainly their passenger power, the freight and yard engines were BLACK! I have 3 IHC and 3 Spectrum units, and would buy more if they came reasonably accurate and affordable.

Brad

[SpaceMouse]

I model 1880's SP

and 1917 Cailifornia Western and Northwestern Pacific

[Hawk007]

Interesting question,

For me it is based on Nickel Plate, B & O, NYC, PRR when they were in their haydays. different citys around Northern Ohio Area. where they interlinked and / or crosed one another.

I have tons of steam. and love it to death. (LOL) though at times I dont think it loves me that much when it dont work the way it should.

[dehusman]

Part of the problem is that all the manufacturers like to build and modelers seem to like to buy is the big stuff, huge articulateds, monsters that need a 130' turntable. in reality that were probably a hundred 2-8-0's for every 2-8-8-2. i would be wiling to bet that the 4-6-0, 4-6-2, 2-8-0, 2-8-2 comprised over 75% of the steam road engine fleet between 1935 and 1955. and they look ok going around a 24" radius curve. I would say make a variety of boilers to fit on some semigeneric chassis.

Dave H.

[jeffers_mz]

The layout my son and I are building is after the Silverton RR, though it was a narrow gauge and we're using standard HO track. I'd like to see some turn of the century equipment from the Denver and Rio Grande (Western), Rio Grande Southern, Silverton, Silverton Northern, or Silverton, Gladstone, and Northerly, since the SRR leased locomotives and rolling stock from all of them.. Old Time 2-8-0 Baldwins were the norm, with a very few 4-6-0's and one 37 ton two truck Shay that I know of. Some well detailed wood 24' boxcars, maybe five of the Baldwins and I'd be in hog heaven.

I'm not greedy though, if I can't buy what I need, I'll just make it myself.

[pcarrell]

I model a fictional RR called the Autumn's Ridge Railway & Navigation Co. and it is based in mid-coast Maine, in the area of Belfast. Currently the time period is 1939 but since I'm moving anyways I've been thinking of changing to the mid 50's. It is in N scale.

Any long wheelbase steam such as 2-10-0's and such would be a nice addition, as well as smooth running, good pulling small steam, like a 4-6-0, a 4-4-2, or some yard goats like an 0-8-0, would be very welcome. I can imagine that a really fine quality 0-8-0 would sell like hotcakes. I think that the smaller steam is definately much more needed. A camelback in N would be nice too, not that I'd need it though.

Some of these were done many moons ago, but the technology is so much better now that I feel they should be revisited. [8D]

[brokemoto]

I model mostly late transition B&O and P&LE in N scale. I also run some WM and PRR.

For B&O, we do have the USRA light mikado and pacific, although they are MP and have problems. MP can not get a correct road number on them, but I can always change the number. For the light mikado, we must buy the undecorated with the USRA Standard tender and letter it, as the MP comes with a Venderbilt (only a few of the Q-3s acquired Vanderbilts, and those late in life)

There is also the Bachpersonn consolidated, which looks much like an E-60.

The B-mann 2-8-0 also looks much like a WM H-7.

The PRR did have USRA light mikados, but those who model PRR steam want steam that looks like PRR steam: BelPaire fireboxes and high-mounted headlights.

The Kato USRA heavy mikado would be a P&LE H-9, although most of those were gone by the late transition era. The H-9s also had larger tenders by the 1920s.

Stil, what is out there is not enough.

Rivarossi did sell USRA heavy pacifics, which look much like B&O P-6s, P-7s and P-1ds. The first two were copies of the USRA heavy pacific (but with a Vanderbilt tender for the P-6). The last one were rebuilt older pacifics, but it appears that the B&O rebuilt them into copies of the USRA heavy. The RRs are not the best runners.

RR also had USRA heavy mikados and light pacifics and mikados, again mediocre runners at best.

TRIX: dated.

The MDC late 1880s consolidateds and moguls do look much like power that the B&O ran during that period. The MDCs have a motor in the tender connected to the locomotive by a driveshaft. They are good runners.

[orsonroy]

I model the Peoria area, circa 1949-1950, concentrating on the NKP and the lines it connected with. Being a NKP modeler, I'm a bit spoiled, since I can get almost every one of their primary freight and switching engines for the period in HO plastic (0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 2-8-4). But I model a lot of roads besides the NKP: P&E (NYC), IC, GM&O, TP&W, P&PU, C&IM, IT, ATSF, PRR, RI, M&StL. Of those roads and the engines that were run into Peoria, I can get three engines that are anywhere near correct. Everything else will have to either be brass, a compromise "stand-in", or (shudder) diesels.

Most people claim that the only steam models that will sell are either USRA engines, or engines that are really famous. Bull. The market is oversaturated with USRA steam (do we REALLY need five manufacturers cranking out USRA light Mikes?), and where are all the "famous" excursion engines from the past 35 years? Where's 4501, 1385, 2101, 6060, 700, 261, and all the others? Heck, where are the CP 2-8-2s? (between all the Steamtown attempts and moves, they'v GOT to be among the most-seen steam in the USA). How many people out there actually REMEMBER seeing big boys and cab-forwards?

The models we've got sell becayse that's what we've got to buy. I think the best selling plastic steamer of the past ten years has got to be the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0. Look at how many of them, completely unmodified, show up in the hobby mag layout photo tours. If anyone besides Bachmann were paying attention, we'd have more small steam models on the market to work with.

Manufacturers (besides Bachmann, which seems to be the only one listening) need to get off their articulated kick and start cranking out consolidations, ten wheelers, moguls, Atlantics, SMALL pacifics, SMALL Mikados, and Americans. And pick a few prototypes besides the Pennsy, N&W and the USRA. How about small ATSF steam? Or even UP? How about ANYTHING Canadian? How about some of the giant US roads, which have basically nothing on the market, like the CB&Q, IC, Rock Island, Southern and Mo-Pac?

Oh, and I'm really NOT spoiled: there hasn't been a single new plastic steamer that's more than about 85% correct for the NKP. USRA Mikes are only somewhere in the 40% accurate range, on a good day. I need to superdetail every engine, sometimes taking the details down to the basic boiler outline and starting over. And so far, only two engines didn't need a full redecorating. With all the great historical societies out there, why can't manufacturers get a simple paint job right?

[oleirish]

S.P. here 1950's up to about 1960![2c]I have nine steam loco's .Five are lettered in S.P. Three un-letter'd and one the BOOTH KELLY logger[2c](mantua 2-6-6-2)
JIM

[jsoderq]

Since no one thinks from the manufacturers point of view, a few thoughts. Steam is much more complex to make than diesel. Steam is pretty specific to one railroad which means a very limited sales market. You cannot make money making 200 units . Now small steam can only command so many dollars, which is why there are relatively so many large engines. You would not pay as much for a Toyota as for a Cadillac,so small steam is very difficult to make money on. I used to work for a company that made steam. We only packed a small number of kits, and it literally took years to sell them. Even large hobby shops you're talking oneseys and twoseys- car kits, multiple cases of 12 - diesel at least one case of six. My own perception is that steam fans are much more critical than most modelers resulting in negative feedback. So you begin to see the problem!

[Virginian]

I model N&W and Virginian; almost exclusively steam. If it is not exactly prototypically correct, it must at least have the right wheel arrangement and be something I can work with (I am probably going to get a 2-10-2 for the VGN to be trying out since I don't agree with management's decision on the 2-6-6-6s; 2-10-4s may be ideal).
I have no problem with big steam, but if someone would come out with a 4-8-0 they would probably have one sale for sure, maybe two.

[Anonymous]

If I was NOT modeling my own ficticious railroad, I would LIKE to model some Shays from the Argent Lumber company....in On30. I might would even add some to my ficticious railroad, as some interchanging traffic.

[IRONROOSTER]

I model the Ma&Pa, but I would be interested in any small steam, 4-4-0, 4-6-0, etc. as long as it's made in S scale. I think one reason that so many early model railroads were fictional was to avoid the criticism for not having the correct engine. There are apparently a number of folks who get critical about the having a Santa Fe 4-4-2 lettered for the PRR, etc. When your in a minority scale you appreciate any steam that comes your way.
Enjoy
Paul

[Eriediamond]

k41361 and others, my railroad is the Erie.I'm modeling the 1940's early 50's era. From what I've seen in the "fallen flag" web site, Erie had a lot of camel backs in different configurations, however I didn't see any in my part of the country back then. Also I'm not a nit-picking modeler either. If a steam loco is in Erie livery and brings back childhood memories, I'll take it. Now if I may make a beef here. If there are any manufacturers reading this, my beef is not the loco end of the train, it's the caboose end. Why do you spend all the money to research and develop a model steam loco or diesel for that matter, and not produce a caboose for the road the locos are modeled for. My road, the Erie there are a number of locos available and only one caboose and that's in EL livery. Now it would be a simple matter of repainting and decaling for the Erie, but, no decals either, except for a few and you quessed it--- for locos. Thanks for listening, Ken

[mikebonellisr]

I model the nyc,and love to see "smaller" engines,such as 0-6-0s,2-6-0s,4-6-0s,any wheel arrangement up to 4-6-2s.The smaller motive power just looks better on my freelance,putnam/harlem division layout

[TwinZephyr]

While profit and customer demand may be factors, I've often suspected that manufacturers select their product line based on what the owners or the product development team want for their own collection.

Too bad model steam locomotives are never designed with easy to swap/move domes, stacks, etc.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by k41361

I would like to think that the manufacturers of model railroad equipment read these web sites.
What I would like to do is get a response from as many as we could as to what railroads they model from the steam era.Excluding their own fictional railroad.
I
.But I think it is oversaturated with these locomotives and think something like a B&O EM1 would be a winner.Like I said ,maybe I'm wrong .A survey may prove it one way or the other

Most of us have wanted some other engines that are not available since we have been in the hobby. I enjoy and have several PRR locomotives because I grew up watching them run steam in Illinois. Most every PRR steam engine has been made available at one time, but if you want to influence BLI, or any of the model steam builders, we should keep emailing them with our requests.

It sounds too easy just to email a company and make a request, but this is one way they really find out what we want. It is surprising that the B&O has been omitted in the plastic market, since most of their locomotives have been made in brass for sure. AHM did make the 2-10-2, but it probably did not run well, since their early models were poor runners.

You cannot expect a company to import a model that was not popular, since they would be on warehouse and store shelves for months or years. I also model the Illinois Central, and no one has imported any plastic locomotive for the IC except common diesels. The brass steam that was imported sold, but not fast enough for PFM or Hallmark to continue with the IC engines.

I would like to see BLI or Lifelike continue bringing in locomotives that are less popular than the Union Pacific, Santa Fe or Southern Pacific models, but these are the models that do sell well and they will probably always be imported as a fail safe type of merchandise.

If you email your requests for favorite models to BLI , PCM or Lifelike, you might get your wish. I am certain that the request for the Reading T1 was heard and now is coming in from PCM, part of BLI. The requests have to sort of universal and the models have to make sense from their view or they would not build it. Engines like the Northern Pacific A3, A4, and A5 along with the Z6 and Z8 would sell so fast they would have to do reruns to keep up with the demand, but they have not been announced from BLI or PCM. The A3, A4 and A5 have been announced with sound from Sunset this coming year, but I have reservations on their quality. If they are excellent, they will sell to the people who will pay a little more than the BLI engines, but not expensive like the normal brass.

From a surrey point, I would like to see both the B&O EM1 and the DM&IR M4, which are kin to each other since Baldwin built them and they do share many basic type parts.

Let the good models continue to be imported and many more requested by us.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by k41361

...... P&WV.There is a lot of Pennsy but very little of the others that are modeled......

P&WV had USRA Light and Heavy 2-8-2; BLI offered thiers lettered for P&WV. P&WV also had two ex PRR H9 2-8-0; the Bowser kit. Pretty good for a short line; three different HO scale non-brass steam locomotives are currently available.......The P&WV 2-6-6-4 is a do able bash using an extended Bowser PRR M1a 4-8-2 boiler, shortened H9 chassis, NWSL gear boxes, etc.

My main focus is the N&W, which enjoys excellent coverage in the sub $500- arena of HO models, in addition to many kit bash opportunities provided by Bowser (and Cary), Bachmann, Walthers (Life Like P2K), BLI and PCM.

[GN-Rick]

The Great Northern Railway is another road with distictive steam
power that is virtually ignored by the manufacturers. Plenty of high-
priced brass, of course, (I have several) but with the exception of
Con-cor's very nice N-scale S-2 Northern, there is nothing at all
available other than brass. Even kitbashing would be difficult, as
GN steam is so very different from most other railroads'. In particular,
I would love to see (in HO scale) an S-1, an R-2 (2-8-8-2), a late
model P-2 (4-8-2), an O-1, 4, 6 or 8 Mikado and any of the class
F-8 Consolidations. GN, like the Southern, also ran "clean, green
steam machines"-both passenger and freight.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

------- I have no great hankering for Canadian steam because they bought mostly American models and modified them somewhat. -------

Wow! That's a surprising and provocative statement given the wide variety of fine locomotives designed and built by or for the CPR during the 1st half of the 20th century. I can't speak for the CNR, however there certainly were some very fine locomotives designs that came out of their engineering offices too.

To describe those locomotives as being somewhat modified American models would be laughable and suggest any such author as not being well read on the topic.
[:D]

[PASMITH]

SP Early 1900's Northern California

Peter Smith, Memphis

[jrbernier]

Steam engines are a problem for manufacturers. The prototype really had few 'standard' models from the builders. Most steam was very customized. The USRA series and the 'copies' are about as good as it gets.
I see someone mentioned the B&O/DM&IR 2-8-8-4 engines - the DM&IR engines were bigger, Akane tried to sell a modified B&O EM-1 as a M-4 back in the 60's! Other than the availability of 'brass' steam 20-30 years ago, we really have it pretty good right now. A good selection of USRA basic engines, the Lima built 2-8-4, and those big UP engines, and they all run far better than the brass we used to have.
What I can see happening if folks start to want to 'build' something again is 'conversion' kits to modify existing models - of course you would have to 'paint & decal' something!

Jim Bernier

[route_rock]

Going to model my own line in On30. 1900's era so thats why the On30 part ( that and I think it looks sharp) Give me a Heisler, 4-6-0,2-6-0, and I will be happy! Ok ok add the shay maybe and the C-16 BLI has out.But still no one wants steam it seems.I dont know why? With the new sound systems and everything else to capture the sound of the real thing why not? Now if only they can get them to smoke like when shes in the corner and you yank the throttle full out witha fresh load of coal in the box! (yes I ruined a pair of my wifes pants doing this )

[twhite]

I model the WWII era, predominantly Rio Grande standard-gauge steam, with SP running a close second (trackage rights). Since it is WWII, I also have 'borrowed' power from N&W, Burlington-C&S, Pennsy and C&O. Santa Fe occasionally makes an appearance, as does GN and WP. Since I do model predominantly Rio Grande power, which is fairly distinctive, I've built up my collection from brass that I've bought on consignment or at swap meets.
Steam IS distinctive from road to road. For instance, you can't get a Santa Fe 3800 2-10-2 and slap Rio Grande decals on it and come up with an F-81. You CAN get a UP Challenger and turn it into a Rio Grande 3800 4-6-6-4 with a few decals, but then Rio Grande only kept their UP clones for a couple of years and got rid of them quick! You want a REAL Rio Grande Challenger, you'll have to spend big bucks for a new or used brass import of the Baldwin L-105, which is as different from a UP Challenger as night from day.
Beleive me, I'd like to see some good quality plastic models of Rio Grande steam, but how many like me MODEL Rio Grande standard gauge steam? Not a lot, I'll wager. Probably not enough to warrant a C-45 ALCO 2-8-0, or their sporty little Baldwin P-40 4-6-2 from Spectrum or Proto or BLI. So some of us have to kit-bash and be satisfied with approximating the results. Or haunting swap-meets and railroad shows once or twice a year hoping that God will smile on us and someone wants to get rid of their Rio Grande collection.
Tis a conundrum.
Tom