Do cheap couplers annoy you?

[lesterperry]

I replace all non KD couplers with kd. I keep the scottish ones to put on anything I wi***o sell at a later time. I know this is not very nice but KDs aren't free

[Anonymous]

I dont mind paying the extra 2.25 if everything came together. The business model can and should work towards quality product.

Electric Motive

I had almost given up on trains as a kid because the horn and hooks were so poor with attempts at actual operations. As luck would have it, my father introduced me to Kaydee which meant that the old Tycos and similar cars had to go and move up to the Blue Box Athearn with was pretty good for the time.

Intermountain cars do NOT give me any trouble what so ever, the bulk of my fleet is Athearn Blue box reinforced by a few choice RTR's I keep a pile of Kaydees, parts and tools on hand so I can make running repairs as needed. I have yet to have a train seperate on the main.

[ElectricMotive]

I just converted the couplers on a three Walthers Horizon/Comet p/p commuter cars last night. The coupler height on at least one of the cars is off, so on my initial run with the old couplers, I lost a car around the third curve. I changed out a few of the couplers to Kadees right then, and everything was fine in pull mode from there. Then I tried push mode, and had some problems I believe were related to the horn-hook couplers between two of the cars. I swapped out the remaining couplers for Kadees, though I didn't get a chance to run around with the all-Kadee train.
I also had a problem with an original coupler on a Walthers Amfleet car; swapping in a Kadee solved the problem.

In short, while I haven't been into model railroading that long (briefly around age 5, and more recently since June), I've quickly learned that Kadee couplers solve a lot of hassles. So, yes, cheap couplers annoy me. (After all, who wants to keep backing a train up to pick up cars that came uncoupled around a curve?)

[emdgp92]

I have a variety of knuckle couplers on my rolling stock--Accumate, Kadee, McHenry, etc. Most of my stuff was converted to Kadees years ago. There aren't many cars with the other types left now--whenever one of those 'lesser' couplers has problems, I replace it with a Kadee.

[Anonymous]

I can't stand Kadee Couplers. I like the Kato's the best.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Counter Weight

Im complaining NOT about CHEAP OEM. I am more than willing to squeeze out the extra 75 cents on a already over 30-40 dollar product if it comes equipped with Kaydees already adjusted and ready to go out of box.

couter weight
THEN (theoretically) $.75 for after-market shouldn't be a problem.

Installation? -or, the PRINCIPLE!

A $ .75 OEM price generally translate's to $2.25 retail due to increased Cost of doing business.

Cheers.

[Anonymous]

Im complaining NOT about CHEAP OEM. I am more than willing to squeeze out the extra 75 cents on a already over 30-40 dollar product if it comes equipped with Kaydees already adjusted and ready to go out of box.

It is the manufactors casterating the product with bad cheap couplers that must be replaced AGAIN once one arrives at home is the problem here.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Davidvd59

I thought about 2 years ago someone was coming out with a coupler (maybe McHenry) to compete with the KD. What actually happened with that? Was that coupler that was going to be made of metal turn out to be junk or did it never get to market?

Davidvd59

McHenry and Intermountain both came out with KD sub's, that looked promising. They both had molded-on whisker spring's that failed, and were made out of plastic that drooped, or broke. Since some of KD's patent's expired, many manufacturer's have been inspired to make /have 'knock-off's to mate with KD. You can read about their 'success' stories herein.

Specifically, McH changed to a coil spring, IM now supply's KD's on their product's, and to date PROTO 2000's can't be backed up without losing cars.

[Anonymous]

My policy on couplers is that cheaper bachmann plastic couplers are allowed to be used on my rolling stock if the rolling stock is maintenance/research cars. Because of the cost of converting everything to Kadee, I still use Bachmann couplers and will continue to use them for the near future but will eventually convert all of my cars/locomotives to mostly Kadee and McHenry couplers. Right now, a majority of my cars/locomotives have Kadee Couplers on them.

[Anonymous]

I also see some comments about the scottish people, I thought the dutch got their dollars worth?

[Anonymous]

I thought about 2 years ago someone was coming out with a coupler (maybe McHenry) to compete with the KD. What actually happened with that? Was that coupler that was going to be made of metal turn out to be junk or did it never get to market?

[Don Gibson]

hdtvnut

SUBJECT:Do cheap couplers annoy you? Agreed.

OEM supplier's don't make their own coupler's - they BUY them.

2. Since they're supplied for FREE, they buy what's cheap. Some still supply horn-hook's. would you rather have these?

3.Since they buy what's CHEAP to save money.

WHY exactly are you complaining?

It wasn't too long ago that if one bought a FORD SUV, you would have to replace the FIRESTONE tires to prevent blowout's.

4 KD's cost $3.

[nickinwestwales]

Hey-at least you guys have a choice of reasonably realistic scale sized couplers to choose from,us Brits are lumbered with variations of what is known as the `tension-lock` coupler,the closest we have managed to get to a `national standard`.
O.K,it`s efficient,but each vehicle is held about 6 scale feet from the next and the only alternative is to take a hacksaw to every vehicle & replace with 3-link hook & chain which requires very keen eyesight and an extremely steady hand with a purpose built tool to operate--moral-be gratefull for what you have,happy modelling,nick

[Anonymous]

Canadian, try bending the metal athearn coupler box cover inwards just a hair. A little pinch and they snap onto the often incomplete wedges a little better.

[dragonriversteel]

Mchenry is Irish ......not Scottish,although it could be another surname for another sect or clan of scottish decent. I'll have to look that up further. I'm Scottish from Renfenshirer Scotland ,family moved to US in late 1700's...then the irish side came in to play.

As for the cheap couplers, I too made that same mistake buying those cheap crappy couplers. Only to go back and buy Kadee's,lesson learned.

Patrick

[CANADIANPACIFIC2816]

Other than cheap, plastic couplers such as the McHenry, my biggest gripe is the way some freight car manufacturers mount them on their cars. Athearn for example..........
when you try to remove the coupler from an Athearn ready-to-run or Genesis car you often bend the coupler cover box cover out of shape and then must replace it. And with many of Athearn's kits these days the coupler box covers are so flimsy that you can not get a tight fit with them.

CANADIANPACIFIC2816

[trainfreek92]

what about atlas couplers they seem to be preety good??? Tim

[htgguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

Sorry, folks. I can't go along with the crowd on this one. I have been using McHenry coulers since I got back into the hobby about three years ago. I have been using the newer style with the coil spring. I did come across one set with the wiper spring and can see where there could be some compplaints with those.

I actually broke one McHenry when the enigne fell off the table. Other than that, I have had no failures. When the couplers are adjusted using the Kadee height gauge, everything works as advertised.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

Agreed, I run what they come with for the most part. I have not had any broken couplers. I have a switching layout and run short trains (<15 cars) for the most part.

I do not like the copper return spring on the kadees, it makes installation tougher and on some cars sticks out of the pocket. Kadee must see it as an issue if they are coming out with a whisker coupler.

Tom, I also agree that none of them work properly if not adjusted properly and most work well if adjusted and lubed correctly. My experience.

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Being Scottish doesn't mean you're CHEAP! It mean you expect your dollars worth!!

Fergie

We of Scottish heritage are so often misunderstood! I'm an Howard and a Robinson (on me grandmother's side).

I also usually leave the coupler as is if it comes ona RTR model. When it stops working, the box of Kaydees comes out. On kits, since I have to install the coupler anyway...... I put in the one that is going to work for a long time in the first place! [:D]

[hdtvnut]

cbq9911a, that was true with almost all of my Walthers Superliner II and Budd
cars. Both the original and #5's sit too high, and the only ways I could see
to deal with it were either to file down the bolster or use overset couplers.
Why can't companies exert enough quality control to get such a basic thing
right?

In general, my main gripe is that the plastic finger springs simply will not
hold up, and I think the use of those type couplers should be boycotted.

Hal

[cbq9911a]

Not really. You get what you pay for. Sometimes I'll use a cheap coupler specifically because it's expendable.

What really annoys me are cars that aren't quite the right height for a Kadee #5 and that are a bear to adjust.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester

Oh yah! If it isn't KD get rid of it. Some of my most (about 90%) spectacular derailments and pile ups are as a result of faulty cheap plastic couplers. Those little brass springs make the world of difference.

And yes it annoys me to no end when I buy an expensive Loco and get a cheap plastic coupler with it.

Fergie

Amen to that!!!!!!!!! [bow] You have no idea ow many times I try to run long trains over my rather steep grades, and they pull apart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And the culprit- CHEAP PLASTIC COUPLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][xx(][xx(]

[;)]

KADEE ALL THE WAY[:D]

[fiatfan]

Sorry, folks. I can't go along with the crowd on this one. I have been using McHenry coulers since I got back into the hobby about three years ago. I have been using the newer style with the coil spring. I did come across one set with the wiper spring and can see where there could be some compplaints with those.

I actually broke one McHenry when the enigne fell off the table. Other than that, I have had no failures. When the couplers are adjusted using the Kadee height gauge, everything works as advertised.

Just my 2 cents.

Tom

[Anonymous]

You MEAN Mc Henrys? oh.. pardon me Mc Breakems.

Kaydees ALL THE WAY.

I tolerate those cheap plastic wanna-be's until they break.

I get VERY incensed when I see a 450.00 engine with all the bells and whistles (Literally) riding on a McHenry instead of a honest by gawd Kaydee.

I should redirect this topic to "Why isnt Kaydee doing business with every factory to BUILD thier couplers into each and every retail item??" Save us all the trouble at the workbench with the gazillion little issues such as which coupler goes where and how.

I can see myself looking at mc henrys and a million Kaydee wanna bes 50 years from now. And it was 30 years ago Horn and Hook couplers were the bane.

Now if only they will equipt the cars with metal (Quality like "Life Like") wheels and adequate weight. When I purchase a 50 foot flat car and find it is only 2 ounces and tips off the track.. what a lip service to established guidelines...

[soapbox]

[TomDiehl]

Cheap couplers don't bother me at all. Probably because I don't use them. I started converting to the Kadee brand couplers in the late '60's (yes, I'm THAT old) and have never regretted it. The most recent experience I've had with other brands was the Walther's brand of HO Superliner models. These come with the Bachman E-Z Mate couplers and were quickly replaced with the Kadee's when I experienced constant uncoupling on the helix grade because the coupler shank would twist or bend.

On my equipment, they either work or get replaced.

[BRAKIE]

Bad couplers doesn't bother me..I been changing out couplers to KD since the 60s..It's a well known fact that KD will not supply couplers to the ALL manufacturers but,every time this subject comes up there is that age old cry that falls on deaf ears just has it done over the past years...

Hal,If the manufacturers did use KD couplers that would add to the price and guess what? There would be complaints about that to.[:(]


I do agree with tatans we do need a better coupler.[:D]

[tatans]

Here we go again, it seems at least once a month a theme on couplers erupts, does this not register as a major problem with model railroading? there seems to be a steady tirade of complaints about how bad couplers are and I must agree, and I mean ALL couplers, manufacturers will not come to a standard attachment receptacle for all couplers,(who knows why not?) and it seems to be a hit and miss everytime a train is run.---just how much time is wasted re-coupling cars???--- I have ranted about this problem before, If kd is the standard, to me it seems to be the better of a bad bunch of couplers, does mean there is no room for improvement??? (uncoupling a car with a small stick? c'mon guys) sure hope out there somewhwere, someone is working on a good looking, completely workable, economical, correct coupler, when they do I shall buy them, and so will a lot of other people.

[jrbernier]

If Kadee 'wanted' to increase their production capacity, I am sure they would have no problem getting a bank load to finance it. What they do not want to do is provide couplers at a very low discount price for OEM. They want to keep a certain profit margin, and they have a product that has not been duplicated in reliability so far. So there is no incentive to 'deal' at this time. When the first 'clones' arrived, Kadee went as far as hold the line on prices and then offer discounted 'bulk packs'. I think Athearn approached them when they started the 'Genesis' line and could not work out a 'deal' at that time.
Myself? I always replace the 'living spring' McHenry coupler that are on my engines with a solid Kadee coupler. I replace the 'clones' on any freight cars as soon as I have a problem. What I have noticed is that the Accurail 'Accumate' coupler seem to preform fine(a little over size...). I do use some of the newer McHenry/EZmate 'coil' spring couplers on some applications, due to mounting insulation requirements. I have noticed that these newer couplers have a stronger 'shank' and perform as good as a Kadee coupler. For most applications I use a metal Kadee(bulk packs of #5's) - I can buy them discounted for the price of the clones(or darn close...).

Jim Bernier

[selector]

I'm with jecorbett. I try to keep my costs down, so I will use whatever they suppy between cars (like the MDC Harriman'), but swap them out with Kadees where they mate to the rest of my kadee'd train, including locos.