$$$ per square ft?

[Anonymous]

Hey guys and gals,

Am currently a contractor in Iraq, but when I get home I plan to get started in this adventure. Been looking forward to it. Anyway, was just wandering how much a square ft this will end up costing?

[Anonymous]

Sorry Glory, but there's no hard and fast rule...MRR can be as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it. I know that may seem like a chicken answer, but it's true. There was recently a thread on this forum where some users said they had spent $25K on their layouts over the years, while others had spent far less. Probably the best starting point would be to try calculate the cost of lumber for the size of layout you want to start with, and a starter train set from a reputable company like Athearn, and then go from there.

Stay safe and get back to the US soon!

(edited for typos)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info, and when the work is done here, I will get back. God, it's good to be an american!.

[SpaceMouse]

The price I've been hearing lately is $50/sq.ft. and 50 hours/sq/ft. if you take it to completion. I think those estimates are quite close to what I've been spending.

[Anonymous]

Chip,
Thanks, didn't even consider the time frame, WOW!, but hey, that sounds so good. What's that?....... Retirement, oh yeah!.

[CNJ831]

The prevailing figure for many years now, occasionally published in MR and elsewhere, has been $50/$100 per square foot for a high quality layout...especially if it depicts dense urban or complex country scenery. Basic layouts certain can be done far more cheaply but I think if one were to poll modelers who have built multiple larger layouts over a long career in the hobby, you would get the answer that $10,000 is about the absolute minimum for a fully completed layout of any really sigificant dimensions (i.e. bedroom-sized). Considering that rather small, quality, custombuilt layouts start at around $20K, that figure certainly is far from extravagant.

CNJ831

[cacole]

The cost depends on the materials you use, especially when it comes to scenery.

For example, when we built the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club's 20x40 foot HO-scale layout, we used the styrofoam packing blocks out of computer boxes, stacked up and glued together with caulking compound, and carved into shape with a serrated bread knife. We then draped an old Army blanket over the mountain and poured watery casting plaster over it until it got thick enough to not be brittle.

If we had tried to make that mountain out of commercial scenery material from a company such as Woodland Scenics it would probably have cost 10 times as much as we spent.

In other areas, we used plain Arizona dirt mixed with casting plaster, latex paint and white glue to form the scenery.

You can see the results at http://members.cox.net/cacole2

[Anonymous]

Thanks CN,
Not sure what I will do yet, but with all the help and ideas in the forum I know I'm going to enjoy all of it.
G1

[Anonymous]

Thanks cacole,
Very impressive[bow], I'm thinking 4x8 to start.
G1

[nbrodar]

I figure my layout costs about $35-40 per square foot. This includes locomotives and cars, which account for about half of that amount. I've reused track, benchwork, and sturctures from previous layouts, so the costs have been spread out over the last 10 to 15 years.

Nick

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by glory1

Thanks cacole,
Very impressive[bow], I'm thinking 4x8 to start.
G1

A typical first step, one that I did. However, there are possibly better options. IF you figure 30" of walk-around around the 4x8 you are dealing with a 9' x 13'. A 30" U of O shape in that area will get you more railroad and be easier to operate. Had I been more astute, planned better, I would have taken one of the other options.

You have some down time I imagine, There are a lot good resources on the net. Do your homework before you make a decision.

[Anonymous]

Chip,
Layman's terms on the 30" U of O shape. I'm all over the net, it's all I have, The Post Exchange dosen't sell any RR magizines[sigh]
G1

[SpaceMouse]

Typo--U OR O shape. Sorry. Figure either to be 30" wide or less and operate them from the center. The U would have Blobs at the end to turn trains around for contiuous running or maybe an yard at each end for point to point. Eithr way you have a lot of options not availible on a 4 x 8.

I'll see if I can locate a couple og the recent discussions on the 4x8 layout.

[SpaceMouse]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=46916&REPLY_ID=510534#510534

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=45816

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=46614&REPLY_ID=521107#521107

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=47171&REPLY_ID=510919#510919

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=46520&REPLY_ID=503457#503457

[tatans]

Do not use the $/sq.ft. this has no bearing whatsoever on actual cost,think about it, take one square foot of a layout with 2 tracks running through it and nothing else,is this worth $25-$35-$50 per sq.foot?? as opposed to an area with turntables, switches, bridges, mountain scenes, etc. Cost out your area on individual items (roughly) track, plywood, bracing, wiring, switches, foamboard, cork, etc etc etc, you will arrive at a more realistic sum than the per/foot method. This also applies to housebuilding, of course a contractor will
build you a house for $135.00 / sq.ft. if you agree, but if you do, just ask for a total and reciepts for every cent spent on the project,(not wages) you may be in for a big surprise,(if the contractor goes for it) no reputable builder uses this method anymore. I cost out a 1600 sq.ft house framed to lock-up, every nail board ,plywood, etc. etc. etc. you cannot believe the ACTUAL cost of the materials.

[vsmith]

$/Sq. Ft. [?]

Too Much....short answer, but once you accept that, the rest is easy![:D]

[IRONROOSTER]

Model Railroader, recently did a project layout that cost about $500 for a 4x8 layout. Since it was specifically aimed at keeping the cost down, you can figure a little bit more - say $700-800. But train and structure selection can change this significantly. For example an Atlaspassenger station is $10.95 msrp, but some of the craftsman kits are over $100. Fortunately, you don't have to buy it all at once. Spread out over a few months it doesn't seem so bad.
Enjoy
Paul

[selector]

The answers to this question (yes, plural because there are many, as we can readily see above) all take into account personal experience and personal preferences. A wooden inner door , two saw-horses, about 30' of track, some switches, two locos, ten pieces of rolling stock, and a single plastic kit station house will set you back (with DCC and sound) about $400...no scenery, N-scale....several items discounted or won on ebay for a song. It can, and generally does, rise exponentially from that basic set-up to more elaborate and larger, more electronically powerful and capable systems.

The 50/50 rule is a safe, if conservative, estimate for the "average" layout in terms of the degree of sophistication, densitiy of track and motive equipment, density of structures, and the degree of detailed scenery. Less often quoted are the inevitable hours of trouble-shooting, research (don't ask Chip about that bit...his head will explode!), and redoing or adding to what you had originally thought would suffice. This is particularly more the case if you are new and largely green in the skills that an ambitious layout will demand....skill-building will also impose a cost in terms of both dollars and time.

Is it worth it? Oooooooooh yeaaaaaaaaah.

[orsonroy]

Without factoring in engines, rolling stock, structures, or control surfaces, I think I'm at about $30 a square foot, for a foam-based layout. That figure includes 1 section of flextrack and one Peco switch, as well as ground foam for a base scenery layer. Everything else in the cost department is up to personal tastes: if you like lots of trees vs. lots of buildings, plastic diesels vs. brass steam, Athearn vs. Westerfield freight cars, how much scratchbuilding you do, etc.

For a BASIC shelf-type layout (minimal scenery, few structures, midrange equipment), you can hold aggregate layout costs to around the $40/sq ft range.

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Do not use the $/sq.ft. this has no bearing whatsoever on actual cost,think about it, take one square foot of a layout with 2 tracks running through it and nothing else,is this worth $25-$35-$50 per sq.foot?? as opposed to an area with turntables, switches, bridges, mountain scenes, etc. Cost out your area on individual items (roughly) track, plywood, bracing, wiring, switches, foamboard, cork, etc etc etc, you will arrive at a more realistic sum than the per/foot method. This also applies to housebuilding, of course a contractor will
build you a house for $135.00 / sq.ft. if you agree, but if you do, just ask for a total and reciepts for every cent spent on the project,(not wages) you may be in for a big surprise,(if the contractor goes for it) no reputable builder uses this method anymore. I cost out a 1600 sq.ft house framed to lock-up, every nail board ,plywood, etc. etc. etc. you cannot believe the ACTUAL cost of the materials.

Tatans, I agree with your comment. However, most people don't care about the cost of roofing nails or furnace ductwork. All they care about is HOW MUCH in total dollars. If they can afford the total dollars, they buy. A 1200 sf house and a1600 sf house could end up costing exactly the same amount, but the 1200 sf house would be built with better, more expensive materials and fixtures.

The customers who want to compare one house with another, or one builder to another, will look for the common denominator of cost/sf as a basis of comparison. Unless they are knowledgable buyers, they will buy the 1600 sf house because it's bigger for the same amount of money. I'm not saying this is the right way to buy, I'm just saying that it is a common practice.

Knowledgable buyers understand the principles you stated, and are not fooled into thinking they are getting a better house based on cost/sf. They understand the costs are variable depending on the time and materials used in construction.

That being said, a 4 x 8 layout could cost you as little as $200-$300, (less than $10/sf) or as much as a new SUV ($1000/sf). Still the same sized layout, but a whopping difference in cost/sf. An all-brass O scale layout is going to cost more than a Bachmann N scale layout.

So you are correct that cost/sf is a misleading method of determining the final value. I'm glad you are a consciencious contractor and don't use these misleading methods in your buisiness. It shouldn't be used for comparing model railroads, either, but many modelers do just that.

I hope more modelers learn from your comment that cost/sf is NOT an accurate means to determine what a layout will cost them!

Darrell, about $90/cubic foot, but quiet...for now

[davekelly]

Some thought that I have

1. I think we also have to realize that often a smaller layout actually costs more per square foot than a larger one. Let's take a Digitrax Zepher and 3 decoders, $250.00. Take that cost and divide it into 32 (4 by 8) and it raises the layout cost $7.80 per square foot. If you are building a 20 by 12 foot U shape layout (let's just say 180 square feet) the cost of the Zepher and decoders will only raise the layout cost $1.38 per square foot. Of course a bigger layout might have more engines, meaning more costs there, plus more decoders etc, but I think you get the idea.

2. Money spent in constructing a layout isn't all spent at once. Also, money spent in constructing the layout isn't spent in a linear fashion. In the beginning, costs might be higher as you want to complete the benchwork and get a mainline running as fast as possible. Thus initially you are buying, benchwork material, roadbed, track, control system, engine, rolling stock etc. Months spent painting foam might cost a whole lot less than a single week which sees a Walthers 130ft Turntable installed.

3. It seems that you are wondering how much this hobby will cost in completing a layout (no layout is completed lol). Because constructing a layout takes an amount of time ranging from a couple of months to several years, what you can afford to spend on a month to month basis and when you envision certain things completed are probably more accurate indicators of determining affordability than cost per square foot. A layout that costs $75.00 per square foot may be less affordable to one person than one costing $200 per square foot to another person even if all financial considerations are the same, if they have different ideas of time. (ie: first person wants to complete the layout within a year, while the other sees the completion date somewhere around the 5 year mark down the road.).

Of course, all this planning is just theory - isn't it? Or are we all disciplined enough to say "no" to buying that nifty new whatever that pops up in order to keep our costs per square foot or costs per month where it was planned to be? [:-^][:-^][:D]

I think the best thing to do is to get one of those Atlas layout planning books and price the list of materials and track. Do this for several of the layouts. Also do this for various engines, rolling stock and control systems. This should give you an idea of cost. Factor in how much you want to spend in any given time period and you should have a good idea of where you can go in this hobby based on financial factors.

Dave

[Texas Zepher]

The only time I carefully tracked this was on my son's "Youth In Model Railroading" module unit he took to the NMRA convention in 1999.

It is 23"x44" and cost us exactly $189.94 (excluding gas to and from the hobby stores). That comes out to $27.03 per square foot for frame, base, scenery, and track. Note that this module had just two straight tracks through it. No turnouts, no crossings, no electronics, nothing fancy. The most expensive individual parts were the little animals & people (moose, skunk, deer, trout, fisherman, etc.).

Edit - oh yeah, no trains in that price, just layout.

[Anonymous]

All,
Thanks, you gave me a lot of great answers and a lot more to think about. I will continue to reserch and learn all I can about this great hobbie that I can't wait to start as soon as I get back to the world.[:D]
G1

[dgwinup]

Well thought out, Dave. Great suggestion, too.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[davekelly]

glory,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Do some research, reading (this forum is an excellent source of information) and some thinking. It will save lots of time (and money) down the road.

Here's another thought. While total cost may seem high, if you figure out cost on an hourly basis, I think you'll find this hobby is quite inexpensive. A $20.00 structure kit and $10.00 of paint can easily provide hours and hours of enjoyment (ok - sometimes a little frustration too), at an hourly rate of less than the cost of renting a video.

Dave

[colvinbackshop]

glory1
Ahhh...Costs! Now we're talking variables...Many, many variables.
As well stated in all the above posts; a layout can cost as little or as much as you want it to depending on craft kits verses shake the box, brass verses plastic, how much detailing, landscaping and so on...
Starting out with a 4x8 empire as you have stated (which is a great way to get going in this wonderful hobby), using quality track and turnouts along with the lesser expensive structures, locos and rolling stock, should run between $25 and $35/ sq. ft. and result in a great looking and running pike.
One area that hasn't been addressed in this thread, and may not even be a factor in getting your 4x8 going (but is worth mention), is the cost of the Trainroom! Is it an extra bedroom, unfinished basement, stand alone building?
In calculating my costs, just lighting and valance run about $5.00/ lin.ft. and I'm doing things as cheaply as I can! My Trainroom is also in a stand alone building (converted garage) as I had no available space in the house. Factoring the initial building cost and cost of remodeling/refurbishing this space, I'm at about $17.00/sq. ft. of pike space (actual sq. footage of model railroad) before even building any benchwork.

[Budliner]

I spent $150 on 1x4's for my 11x10 midland layout
but the 40 locomotives went to high and I lost count


B -

[Anonymous]

All,
Again, thanks. I am being quickly, and happily [:D] consumed by this hobbie and I haven't even laid my 1st piece of track yet [:(].

C1