Dumb Question

[rlandry6]

Don't laugh.. I really don't know..

What is a Daylight Locomotive. I've seen photos of them, but why are that called that.
I told you it was a dumb question..

[Tracklayer]

First of all, there's no such thing as a dumb question on this forum. The only dumb questions are those that don't get asked. Secondly, I have absolutely no idea the answer to your question. Let's hope someone comes along that does so we'll both know...

Tracklayer

[TrainFreak409]

When someone says "a Daylight Locomotive," they are usually refering to the Southern Pacific 4-8-4 steamer, number 4449, dressed in a bright orange and red scheme, resembling the colors of a sunset.

[Tracklayer]

No, no Trainfreak409. I think our friend wants to know "why" it's called the Daylight... My reply to this would be that they had to call it something (?)...

Tracklayer

[jguess733]

don't quote me on this, but i believe the daylight was an SP passenger train using the daylight paint scheme, and a daylight locomotive refers to any of the locomotives that might have pulled it.

[trainboyH16-44]

I think that it's because the colours are representative of daylight, or at least a good sunrise. Whenever I see them, I think of a nice, sunny day because they're o bright.
Matthew

[ndbprr]

The Daylights got there name if I am not mistaked because they travelled the 400 scenic miles between LA and San Fancisco in of all things, "the daylight" There was the Coast Daylight along the ocean and the San Joquin Daylight that went up through Bakersfield. There may have been others. I am no SP expert. Some called them the most beautiful trains ever but that is highly subjective. Some of the GS class were painted in the red and orange paint scheme ala the one remaining and were dubbed the "daylights"

[selector]

You're all wrong. As a powerful 4-8-4, it hauled passenger butt so quickly that it scared the living daylights.....

[nfmisso]

The SP "Daylight" train name came about from the SF (actually Oakland) - LA run made entirely within daylight hours. The paint scheme came later, as did the additional "Daylight" trains.

[Anonymous]

The Daylight locomotive is the SP GS-4 449, as stated. It got its name similar to the Challenger; it was named after SP streamliner the Daylight. Which it did haul, though the daylight was pulled by diesels in later years just as was UP's Challenger. So were the other SP freight 4-8-4 called Daylights? And speaking of stupid question what does the term “Espee” differs in meaning from the SP and what does it mean?

[dehusman]

Espee is just the phonetic pronunciation of SP, In a similar vien, Beano is B&O.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

A Daylight Locomotive is any locomotive painted in the Coast Daylight paint scheme. Although 4449 is the most famous "Daylight Locomotive" there have also been F-units and even SD-40s painted in the Daylight paint scheme.

[ericsp]

As far as I can tell there were the Coast Daylight, San Joaquin Daylight, Sacramento Daylight, and Shasta Daylight. After a while, SP decided to paint the equipment for these trains in an appropiate (Daylight) scheme, including the locomotives. However, I believe the names outlasted the paint schemes.

During the 1970s, SP had four U25Bs rebuilt into TE-70-4S. They were painted in a Daylightesque scheme. They were also nicknamed "popsicles". Here is a link to some SP equipment painted in Daylight inspired paint schemes.

In the early 1980s, SP experimented with painting SD40R (classified by SP as an SD40-2) SP 7342 into a couple of variations of the Daylight scheme and the SD44R (classified as an SD44-2 by SP) SP 7399 into a variation of the Daylight scheme.

I wonder why none of the SP fans who probably know more about the Daylights than I do have responded.

[Train 284]

No such thing as a dumb question. These were 4-8-4 locomotives called GS-4's. They had a paint scheme of orange, red, and black. The locomotives were numbered in the 4000 series, the only survivor of this type of locomotive is the 4449 out of Portland. They were named Daylight because during the long days of summer, traveling between San Fransisco, and Los Angeles, long rays of "daylight" would shine in through the windows of the passenger cars. Eventually, the steamers were replaced by diesels.

[cwclark]

this is the SP daylight passenger train which ran on the west coast of california..there were two sister passenger trains also the southern pacific sunset and the cotton belt sunbeam ....the original locomotive was a GS-4 and then was pulled by Alco Pa 1 and 2 A & B units....about the time amtrak took over in the late 60's, the last few runs were pulled by EMD F and E 7 A and B units...chuck


Alco PA-1 (Cotton Belt)


F7 A and B units SP (Black Widows)

[railroadyoshi]

Awesome stuff. All I knew about was the basic idea of SP Daylight passenger runs, but not all this detail. Thanks!

[tatans]

After reading the above 15 responses 3 times, can anyone tell me the answer to the question??

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

After reading the above 15 responses 3 times, can anyone tell me the answer to the question??

Sure. Technically, there's no such thing as a "Daylight" locomotive. In the mid-30's the SP decided to upgrade the heavyweight "Daylight", which had been running since the 20's to streamliner status. After initially looking at an articlulated diesel unit (along the lines of the Pioneer Zephyr, but not identical), it was decided to go with light-weight passenger cars hauled by a steam locomotive as this would provide more flexibility. Two 12 car trainsets were ordered and Lima won the contract for 6 streamlined steam locomotives which essentially were upgraded and streamlined versions of the GS-1 4-8-4's which were Baldwin built in 1930.

SP 4-8-4 classes GS-2, GS-3, GS-4 and GS-5 were all used on the "Daylight". There were 6 GS-2's (#'s 4410-4415), 14 GS-3's (#'s 4416-4429), 28 GS-4's (#'s 4430-4457) and 2 GS-5's (#4458 and #4459). The only difference between the GS-4's and the GS-5's is that the 2 GS-5's were equipped with roller bearings whereas the GS-4's used the SP patented spring-pad lubricator.

The GS-2's were outshopped in early 1937, the GS-3's later in 1937 and the GS-4/5 were outshopped in 1941 and 1942. All these locomotives were factory painted in the "Daylight" color scheme. In addition to the "Daylight", they were used on other SP 1st class passenger trains.

Of the 4 classes mentioned above, the classes most closely identified with the "Daylight" are the 28 GS-4's and their 2 GS-5 sisters as these were the prime locomotives on the "Daylight" from 1941 until it was dieselized in January, 1955. Most of the "Daylight" painted engines had been de-skirted and painted black by the early 1950's except for those locomotives in the "Daylight", "Lark" and "Starlight" (overnight coach train, although it usually carried a couple of Pullmans until it was merged with the all Pullman "Lark" in 1957") power pool. IIRC, the engines used in the above mentioned power pool during the last years of steam power on the "Daylight", "Lark" and "Starlight" were #'s 4448-4459.

The last stand of the GS-4's and 5's (by then in black) in long distance passenger service was on the "San Joaquin Daylight" north of Bakersfield. This lasted until September, 1956. The last GS-4 to pull a revenue passenger train was #4430 on January 22, 1957, when it pulled a commuter train from San Francisco to San Jose.

Andre

P.S. there were a total of 8 GS classes (which supposedly originally meant "Golden State", but was changed to "General Service" in 1943 when more 4-8-4's were needed during WWII).

I mentioned the GS-1 class earlier. 14 were built by Baldwin in 1930, 10 for the Coast Lines and 4 for the lines east of El Paso (T&NO). Most of the Pacific Lines GS-1's were transferred to the T&NO in the 40's, but some returned to the Pacific Lines in the 50's. These engines were #'s 4400-4409 on the SP proper and #'s 700-703 in the initial number. This changed with the transfers back and forth.

There was a wartime class of GS engines, the GS-6's. These were built to the more conservative specs of class GS-2 and although they had the skyline casing, they had no skirts and were always black. However, the same cab as the GS-4/5 classes was used. There were 16 locos ordered, but 6 were allocated to the Western Pacific. SP GS-6's were numbered 4460-4469.

SP had a motive power shortage in the early 1950's and a number of Cotton Belt L-1 4-8-4's were transferred to SP's Pacific Lines in 1953. These became classes GS-7 and GS-8 on the SP and were numbered 4475-4488. #4488 was the last engine transferred from the Cotton Belt to the SP, coming west in 1956, and making only 1 round trip in revenue service.

[Anonymous]

Neat seeing the SP BlackWidow pic's there Chuck. I just got a SP BlackWidow F A & B unit. The FA unit has a camera installed, and the FB unit is powered to pu***he FA unit. First time I had seen them anywhere before I bought these units. Thanks for the pic's.

OkieRRr

[SP SD44R]

ITs called that because the daylight limited pasenger train that was painted in that paint traveled from sanfransisco to portland in daylight hours

 

[angelob6660]

You guys have forgotten that the Coast Daylight was named in 1953 after the Morning Daylight.

Soon after it was replaced by diesels (E7/8/9 or PA1).

[West Coast S]

Here you go for the primary colors:

Red for the California sunset/sunrise

Orange for the Poppie, our state flower

The GS2 also introduced the use of aluminum on smokebox fronts for Pacific Lines motive power. 

There was no one example of DAYLIGHT as it varied slightly over the years depending on application date and assigned terminal and thus became a generic term for all trains that wore these colors such as the noon,morning,Coast DAYLIGHT, San Joaquin, Shasta, Sunbeam and the short lived Lathrop DAYLIGHT. SP 4449 has worn most if not all variations of DAYLIGHT over her restored career, but like all others she ended her days dressed in black with the side skirts cut off.

Dave

 

[wabash2800]

I've been told the colors were picked to represent California colors.

 

Victor A. Baird

www.erstwhilepublications.com

[PM Railfan]

Simply, "Daylight" refers to a livery (paint scheme) that was specific to the Southern Pacific Railroad. "Locomotive" could be anything from a steam powered switcher to a late model road diesel.

The Daylight livery was applied to passenger trains, and both steam AND diesel locomotives of the SP. Typically certain GS-4 class steam locos and Alco PA/PB's.

So to say 'Daylight Locomotive' would broadly mean a locomotive (steam or diesel) in the Daylight (the ever gorgeous Red, Orange, and Black) paint scheme. Simple answer for a simple question - not a dumb one.

On a confusing note: Dont confuse 'Daylight Locomotive' with 'Crescent Locomotive', even though it refers to the Southern Pacific! (pun intended!!!!)